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Waz Weh	Posted - 2009.11.01 01:24:00 - [1] Hi, I recently lost a Taranis in a fight against a Sabre. The Taranis was a pretty standard blaster fit. I've read through Resdayn's excellent solo Taranis guide, and my understanding is that while a blaster Taranis does better DPS, it seems that at range (which you would need with fighting an autocannon sabre), a railgun fit is better due to being able to exceed the falloff on autocannons and drop the Sabre DPS. EFT suggests that even at a huge transversal (6000m/s) the railgun will be able to hit. 1) Is my logic correct? 2) What can a railgun Taranis confidently engage - obviously it does well vs other ceptors, but can someone provide a comprehensive list?
Beltantis Torrence NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.11.01 01:31:00 - [2] Rail ranis can indeed take any ship fitting small autocannons due to range. Just set keep at 12km with an overloaded web and something like uranium faction ammo. You will lose against any railgun, beam lazor or artillery destroyer. You can take any interceptor, some cruisers that rely on short range weapons (omen, boa and thorax come to mind). You should be able to kill any light drones before they kill you if you have a web. Just orbit at 15km, point the target and hope you kill all the drones before your MWD caps out.
Waz Weh	Posted - 2009.11.01 01:41:00 - [3] Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Rail ranis can indeed take any ship fitting small autocannons due to range. Just set keep at 12km with an overloaded web and something like uranium faction ammo. You will lose against any railgun, beam lazor or artillery destroyer. You can take any interceptor, some cruisers that rely on short range weapons (omen, boa and thorax come to mind). You should be able to kill any light drones before they kill you if you have a web. Just orbit at 15km, point the target and hope you kill all the drones before your MWD caps out. Is it correct that the small railgun has enough tracking to deal with the ridiculous transversal?
Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.11.01 01:45:00 - [4] You won't beat any good Sabre pilot no matter what fit you're rocking. The way you beat bad Sabres is just by going up in their face with CN AM loaded and ****caging them. _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
Beltantis Torrence NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.11.01 01:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Waz Weh Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Rail ranis can indeed take any ship fitting small autocannons due to range. Just set keep at 12km with an overloaded web and something like uranium faction ammo. You will lose against any railgun, beam lazor or artillery destroyer. You can take any interceptor, some cruisers that rely on short range weapons (omen, boa and thorax come to mind). You should be able to kill any light drones before they kill you if you have a web. Just orbit at 15km, point the target and hope you kill all the drones before your MWD caps out. Is it correct that the small railgun has enough tracking to deal with the ridiculous transversal? When you're kiting you generally use keep at range, not orbit, so there is no transversal. Rail boats kite anything smaller than a cruiser and orbit anything cruiser sized and up. Exception to this rule is ishkurs, which you orbit until you can kill off their drones then kite to deal damage to them.
Waz Weh	Posted - 2009.11.01 02:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Suas You won't beat any good Sabre pilot no matter what fit you're rocking. The way you beat bad Sabres is just by going up in their face with CN AM loaded and ****caging them. Could you offer some rationale here? I'm pretty new to PVP. But the Taranis can do about 1km/s more than a similarly equipped Sabre. How is a Sabre pilot going to be able to beat a rail Taranis assuming the Taranis stays out of web range? (Even in web range, it would seem that the Taranis has 118m/s speed advantage). More importantly, in blaster ranges, a Sabre with a passive shield tank fitted will absolutely outdps the Taranis before the shield is even dented. Can you explain?
Samaritan Azuma Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.11.01 03:03:00 - [7] Edited by: Samaritan Azuma on 01/11/2009 03:05:09 my rail ranis runs 3x 150mms( 24k point coreli mwd micro cap booster mfs2 macp od2(maybe nanofiber2 cant remeber =] pg rigs collision accelorator edit: it rocks if you like the rail ranis an want a fit to stay out of med neuts and webs and stuff use faction lead and fight at 22k i also have to use implants for the fit, and carry around a stack of really cheap +small hybrid damage implants around =] If it weren't for downtime, I wouldn't make stupid posts.
Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.11.01 03:17:00 - [8] Edited by: Suas on 01/11/2009 03:18:07 Originally by: Waz Weh Originally by: Suas You won't beat any good Sabre pilot no matter what fit you're rocking. The way you beat bad Sabres is just by going up in their face with CN AM loaded and **caging them. Could you offer some rationale here? I'm pretty new to PVP. But the Taranis can do about 1km/s more than a similarly equipped Sabre. How is a Sabre pilot going to be able to beat a rail Taranis assuming the Taranis stays out of web range? (Even in web range, it would seem that the Taranis has 118m/s speed advantage). More importantly, in blaster ranges, a Sabre with a passive shield tank fitted will absolutely outdps the Taranis before the shield is even dented. Can you explain? Rail Ranis does no damage, you're going to be zooming around and even if you're slightly faster than a Sabre you will have trouble staying outside of web range. Any small ship that relies on fighting outside the 12km range is a major risk to fly in PvP as simple maneuvering will work wonders on getting you inside that magic range. And even if you do manage to keep the Sabre at bay you have to realize the Sabre gets a falloff bonus. It won't be dealing much damage but it will be plinkin' away at you while you're zooming around. Honestly, using a Rail Ranis at 12km+ and counting on beating Sabres is not a very reliable strategy. And you don't honestly expect the Taranis to stay alive very long inside web range, do you? Falloff bonus + Barrage = any Inty in Scram / Web range will be toast in a matter of seconds. And yes, on paper a single MSE Sabre should beat a Ranis in most cases. But you have to factor in various things: Is the pilot awake? Does the pilot have overloading (you should have it)? Does he not have his guns grouped and as such will take ages to even activate them? Does he have his support skills trained? Is he just plain BAD? The only reason you see the occasional Taranis beating a Sabre is because they killed idiots. Most Ranis pilots would never engage a well-piloted dual MSE Sabre in a Taranis (and if they did, they would lose). They make sure the target is not the most competent - check the speed to see if they have 1 / 2 speed mods and then just go in guns blazin' hoping to catch them by surprise at some point. In small ship fights just gaining a 1-2 second lead in terms of DPS applied can be HUGE** in 1on1s. A good example of how to deal with Sabres is the movie Garmon made himself - I'll assume you have seen it. You'll see him overloading everything with CN AM loaded and just hoping that the 1-2 second advantage he has over his opponent will be sufficient for bursting him down. Edit: Bottom line, IMO: Stick to the dualprop setup with Neutrons and just avoid competent Sabres and have a go at the bad ones. _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
Waz Weh	Posted - 2009.11.01 03:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Suas Edited by: Suas on 01/11/2009 03:18:07 Originally by: Waz Weh Originally by: Suas You won't beat any good Sabre pilot no matter what fit you're rocking. The way you beat bad Sabres is just by going up in their face with CN AM loaded and **caging them. Could you offer some rationale here? I'm pretty new to PVP. But the Taranis can do about 1km/s more than a similarly equipped Sabre. How is a Sabre pilot going to be able to beat a rail Taranis assuming the Taranis stays out of web range? (Even in web range, it would seem that the Taranis has 118m/s speed advantage). More importantly, in blaster ranges, a Sabre with a passive shield tank fitted will absolutely outdps the Taranis before the shield is even dented. Can you explain? Rail Ranis does no damage, you're going to be zooming around and even if you're slightly faster than a Sabre you will have trouble staying outside of web range. Any small ship that relies on fighting outside the 12km range is a major risk to fly in PvP as simple maneuvering will work wonders on getting you inside that magic range. And even if you do manage to keep the Sabre at bay you have to realize the Sabre gets a falloff bonus. It won't be dealing much damage but it will be plinkin' away at you while you're zooming around. Honestly, using a Rail Ranis at 12km+ and counting on beating Sabres is not a very reliable strategy. And you don't honestly expect the Taranis to stay alive very long inside web range, do you? Falloff bonus + Barrage = any Inty in Scram / Web range will be toast in a matter of seconds. And yes, on paper a single MSE Sabre should beat a Ranis in most cases. But you have to factor in various things: Is the pilot awake? Does the pilot have overloading (you should have it)? Does he not have his guns grouped and as such will take ages to even activate them? Does he have his support skills trained? Is he just plain BAD? The only reason you see the occasional Taranis beating a Sabre is because they killed idiots. Most Ranis pilots would never engage a well-piloted dual MSE Sabre in a Taranis (and if they did, they would lose). They make sure the target is not the most competent - check the speed to see if they have 1 / 2 speed mods and then just go in guns blazin' hoping to catch them by surprise at some point. In small ship fights just gaining a 1-2 second lead in terms of DPS applied can be HUGE** in 1on1s. A good example of how to deal with Sabres is the movie Garmon made himself - I'll assume you have seen it. You'll see him overloading everything with CN AM loaded and just hoping that the 1-2 second advantage he has over his opponent will be sufficient for bursting him down. Edit: Bottom line, IMO: Stick to the dualprop setup with Neutrons and just avoid competent Sabres and have a go at the bad ones. I understand what you're saying here, but i'm not sure I agree. Let's assume the Taranis stays out of web range. Is he not better equipped with rails? I don't see a way a Taranis can win against a Sabre in blaster range; with my skills in optimal i'm doing 169 (not overheated) and the Sabre is doing 275 at similar range. The Sabre with RF EMP is doing more DPS against a Taranis's weakest resist. You have no hope to win against a Sabre with blasters and a passive shield tank, with almost 700 less EHP. At 12k, a Sabre's optimal+falloff is 8.3; with falloff rigs he's pushing 10.7; in a Taranis you're able to fight at 12.8; even with the bonus I would think you would beat him all things being equal. What am I missing?
Samaritan Azuma Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.11.01 04:11:00 - [10] Edited by: Samaritan Azuma on 01/11/2009 04:12:15 If it weren't for downtime, I wouldn't make stupid posts.

Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.11.01 04:18:00 - [11] Edited by: Suas on 01/11/2009 04:25:41 Originally by: Waz Weh I understand what you're saying here, but i'm not sure I agree. Let's assume the Taranis stays out of web range. Is he not better equipped with rails? I don't see a way a Taranis can win against a Sabre in blaster range; with my skills in optimal i'm doing 169 (not overheated) and the Sabre is doing 275 at similar range. The Sabre with RF EMP is doing more DPS against a Taranis's weakest resist. You have no hope to win against a Sabre with blasters and a passive shield tank, with almost 700 less EHP. At 12k, a Sabre's optimal+falloff is 8.3; with falloff rigs he's pushing 10.7; in a Taranis you're able to fight at 12.8; even with the bonus I would think you would beat him all things being equal. What am I missing? You're missing a lot of PvP experience not to mention the skills themselves. Yes, if you wish to always fight outside web range you're better equipped with rails. 169 DPS with Blasters in a Ranis?! What in Gods name are you doing to that poor ship? If those are the numbers you are getting with a standard fit (and you can't overheat) then you shouldn't be flying this ship at all. You should easily be pushing 250+ DPS before overheat with just one MFS II and going well above the 300 DPS mark when overheated + rigged. Of course you won't beat any Sabres if you have terrible skills. Also, you are not shield tanking, you are hull tanking. Hence why every competent Taranis fit has a DCU. Almost 700 less EHP than a Sabre? What kind of insane fits are you using?! [Taranis, Standard Dual Prop] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction /OFFLINE Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Hybrid Burst Aerator I Hobgoblin II x2 Why would a Sabre be using RF EMP when he's being kited? He would load Barrage which gives him in the region of 11-12k falloff, meaning at 1.2+~11 = ~12.5km he will be doing half damage (around 120-130ish DPS on a standard well-fitted Sabre) and still dealing damage all the way out to ~20km+ or something, this is assuming he can track. Do you know how falloff works? And yes, you do have hope of winning, that's why it's being done all the time and in the movie I mentioned. As I mentioned in the post, it relies heavily on the target you are engaging to be fairly incompetent and to catch him by surprise. It also requires you to have perfect (or near perfect) skills for the Taranis - if you don't have that then why are you even flying the ship?! Honestly, you are not listening. Edit: There are more factors to EVE PvP than simply EFT numbers. I am not saying a Taranis will beat a badly-fitted Sabre if they both start 1km from eachother and shoot at the same time (it won't, and it won't even dent a well-fitted one). But you have to realize there are many factors to PvP, that's what allows some people to be good at it. It's also these factors that Garmon exploits when he takes on Sabres in his Taranis. _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
Waz Weh	Posted - 2009.11.01 04:28:00 - [12] The fit i'm using is: [Taranis, PVP Actual] Light Ion Blaster II Light Ion Blaster II Light Ion Blaster II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 1MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Damage Control II Overdrive Injector II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II This fit does 160 dps with my skills; 188 with all level 5. So maybe you can help me understand what i'm missing.
Raimo Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.01 07:21:00 - [13] Edited by: Raimo on 01/11/2009 07:22:35 Light drones could help a bit in the DPS department, you did know the Ranis has a dronebay right? Though the fit has some other problems besides that obvious one, did you hear about the scrambler/ web changes that happened a year ago? Join RvB!
Waz Weh	Posted - 2009.11.01 08:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Raimo Edited by: Raimo on 01/11/2009 07:22:35 Light drones could help a bit in the DPS department, you did know the Ranis has a dronebay right? Though the fit has some other problems besides that obvious one, did you hear about the scrambler/ web changes that happened a year ago? Yes, my ranis is fit with Warrior II's and yes, i'm familiar with the scrambler and web changes. I understand the concept of dual prop fits and why to use them; I use them from time to time; I just hadn't encountered a Sabre until recently. The question was pretty simple. Can a blaster Ranis beat an MSE Sabre. The answer appears to be a qualified yes, and it's easier if you have rails with medium skills unless you have blasters with high skills and are really on top of your game. It can be argued that even with high skills you may not be able to get enough DPS on your target quickly enough to take down the Sabre with a single MSE much less a dual MSE, while the rail Taranis is probably more forgiving, not to mention better equipped to deal with certain situations. Thanks for all the advice in this thread.
Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.11.01 12:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Waz Weh Originally by: Raimo Edited by: Raimo on 01/11/2009 07:22:35 Light drones could help a bit in the DPS department, you did know the Ranis has a dronebay right? Though the fit has some other problems besides that obvious one, did you hear about the scrambler/ web changes that happened a year ago? Yes, my ranis is fit with Warrior II's and yes, i'm familiar with the scrambler and web changes. I understand the concept of dual prop fits and why to use them; I use them from time to time; I just hadn't encountered a Sabre until recently. The question was pretty simple. Can a blaster Ranis beat an MSE Sabre. The answer appears to be a qualified yes, and it's easier if you have rails with medium skills unless you have blasters with high skills and are really on top of your game. It can be argued that even with high skills you may not be able to get enough DPS on your target quickly enough to take down the Sabre with a single MSE much less a dual MSE, while the rail Taranis is probably more forgiving, not to mention better equipped to deal with certain situations. Thanks for all the advice in this thread. Heh, good luck kiting Sabres. Also, you should read up on falloff mechanics. But oh well~ _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
Beltantis Torrence NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.11.02 10:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Suas Originally by: Waz Weh Originally by: Raimo Edited by: Raimo on 01/11/2009 07:22:35 Light drones could help a bit in the DPS department, you did know the Ranis has a dronebay right? Though the fit has some other problems besides that obvious one, did you hear about the scrambler/ web changes that happened a year ago? Yes, my ranis is fit with Warrior II's and yes, i'm familiar with the scrambler and web changes. I understand the concept of dual prop fits and why to use them; I use them from time to time; I just hadn't encountered a Sabre until recently. The question was pretty simple. Can a blaster Ranis beat an MSE Sabre. The answer appears to be a qualified yes, and it's easier if you have rails with medium skills unless you have blasters with high skills and are really on top of your game. It can be argued that even with high skills you may not be able to get enough DPS on your target quickly enough to take down the Sabre with a single MSE much less a dual MSE, while the rail Taranis is probably more forgiving, not to mention better equipped to deal with certain situations. Thanks for all the advice in this thread. Heh, good luck kiting Sabres. Also, you should read up on falloff mechanics. But oh well~ Change to spike and attack him from 20km if you start taking too much damage. Pulse mwd and overloaded web as necessary to keep him away from you. Its really not that hard to deal with AC's with a railgun fit - you can hit out to 24+km assuming you carry different ammo types. And if he manages to get you scrammed + webbed and gets on top of you then you fail at flying I guess.
Avan Sercedos The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.11.02 14:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Change to spike JESUS CHRIST NO Quote: and attack him from 20km if you start taking too much damage. No, in a ranis, you're dead by the time you realize you're taking too much damage. Quote: Pulse mwd and overloaded web as necessary to keep him away from you. Its really not that hard to deal with AC's with a railgun fit - you can hit out to 24+km assuming you carry different ammo types. If by some magic the sabre manages to start losing he will have time to disengage with the plinky dps you get from spike.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.02 14:56:00 - [18] Normally the only way you beat a Sabre in a Ranis is when it's running a sensor booster or speed fit, you do it by using neutrons and faction antimatter overheated. Also, the ranis is something you really want high skills for if you are going to push it's abilities. A Taranis is an easy ship to lose if you lack the experience. On the other hand, feel free to go out and test your theories and disprobe the naysayers. Some people care way too much about eft figures and conventional setups.
Beltantis Torrence NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.11.02 16:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Avan Sercedos Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Change to spike JESUS CHRIST NO Quote: and attack him from 20km if you start taking too much damage. No, in a ranis, you're dead by the time you realize you're taking too much damage. Quote: Pulse mwd and overloaded web as necessary to keep him away from you. Its really not that hard to deal with AC's with a railgun fit - you can hit out to 24+km assuming you carry different ammo types. If by some magic the sabre manages to start losing he will have time to disengage with the plinky dps you get from spike. Do you even fly the Taranis?
Avan Sercedos The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.11.02 16:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Originally by: Avan Sercedos Originally by: Beltantis Torrence Change to spike JESUS CHRIST NO Quote: and attack him from 20km if you start taking too much damage. No, in a ranis, you're dead by the time you realize you're taking too much damage. Quote: Pulse mwd and overloaded web as necessary to keep him away from you. Its really not that hard to deal with AC's with a railgun fit - you can hit out to 24+km assuming you carry different ammo types. If by some magic the sabre manages to start losing he will have time to disengage with the plinky dps you get from spike. Do you even fly the Taranis? no, this was a pretty bad post, I'm not sure why I posted it

ropnes	Posted - 2009.11.02 20:49:00 - [21] I killed a Thrasher today in an Ares and he was hitting me pretty well at 20km. I wouldn't recommend fighting a properly fit Sabre in a railranis Engaging a destroyer hulls in frig hulls is a bad idea most of the time
Draeklore Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.02 22:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Waz Weh Originally by: Suas Edited by: Suas on 01/11/2009 03:18:07 Originally by: Waz Weh Originally by: Suas You won't beat any good Sabre pilot no matter what fit you're rocking. The way you beat bad Sabres is just by going up in their face with CN AM loaded and **caging them. Could you offer some rationale here? I'm pretty new to PVP. But the Taranis can do about 1km/s more than a similarly equipped Sabre. How is a Sabre pilot going to be able to beat a rail Taranis assuming the Taranis stays out of web range? (Even in web range, it would seem that the Taranis has 118m/s speed advantage). More importantly, in blaster ranges, a Sabre with a passive shield tank fitted will absolutely outdps the Taranis before the shield is even dented. Can you explain? Rail Ranis does no damage, you're going to be zooming around and even if you're slightly faster than a Sabre you will have trouble staying outside of web range. Any small ship that relies on fighting outside the 12km range is a major risk to fly in PvP as simple maneuvering will work wonders on getting you inside that magic range. And even if you do manage to keep the Sabre at bay you have to realize the Sabre gets a falloff bonus. It won't be dealing much damage but it will be plinkin' away at you while you're zooming around. Honestly, using a Rail Ranis at 12km+ and counting on beating Sabres is not a very reliable strategy. And you don't honestly expect the Taranis to stay alive very long inside web range, do you? Falloff bonus + Barrage = any Inty in Scram / Web range will be toast in a matter of seconds. And yes, on paper a single MSE Sabre should beat a Ranis in most cases. But you have to factor in various things: Is the pilot awake? Does the pilot have overloading (you should have it)? Does he not have his guns grouped and as such will take ages to even activate them? Does he have his support skills trained? Is he just plain BAD? The only reason you see the occasional Taranis beating a Sabre is because they killed idiots. Most Ranis pilots would never engage a well-piloted dual MSE Sabre in a Taranis (and if they did, they would lose). They make sure the target is not the most competent - check the speed to see if they have 1 / 2 speed mods and then just go in guns blazin' hoping to catch them by surprise at some point. In small ship fights just gaining a 1-2 second lead in terms of DPS applied can be HUGE** in 1on1s. A good example of how to deal with Sabres is the movie Garmon made himself - I'll assume you have seen it. You'll see him overloading everything with CN AM loaded and just hoping that the 1-2 second advantage he has over his opponent will be sufficient for bursting him down. Edit: Bottom line, IMO: Stick to the dualprop setup with Neutrons and just avoid competent Sabres and have a go at the bad ones. I understand what you're saying here, but i'm not sure I agree. Let's assume the Taranis stays out of web range. Is he not better equipped with rails? I don't see a way a Taranis can win against a Sabre in blaster range; with my skills in optimal i'm doing 169 (not overheated) and the Sabre is doing 275 at similar range. The Sabre with RF EMP is doing more DPS against a Taranis's weakest resist. You have no hope to win against a Sabre with blasters and a passive shield tank, with almost 700 less EHP. At 12k, a Sabre's optimal+falloff is 8.3; with falloff rigs he's pushing 10.7; in a Taranis you're able to fight at 12.8; even with the bonus I would think you would beat him all things being equal. What am I missing? Sounds like someone hasn't been out on the pvp field a lot. Minnie pilots using AC's always carry RF EMP and Barrage ammo. Barrage ammo is what the pilot loads when fast ships try to stay outside falloff range.
RiotRick Black-Sun Pitch Black Legion	Posted - 2009.11.03 00:38:00 - [23] Edited by: RiotRick on 03/11/2009 00:38:39 Taranis can kill a sabre definately. I use overheated blasters with navy antimatter. Just get in close asap. Drop a -2 scram and web on the target. Orbit @500m, overload the guns, drop the drones on him. You will probably get hit bad when approaching, which usually gets you into low armor. When in close orbit, the sabre has a hard time hitting a taranis. The fight will be close. If either of the pilots make a single mistake they will die. There is almost no margin for error. You will need a few more skills I think. If I compare your dps to mine, yours is a bit low. For example my taranis overheated + drones deals 337dps (344dps at maxed skills). -- The future is black.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.11.03 01:26:00 - [24] Originally by: RiotRick ... Can happen, but properly fitted and piloted sabre will effortlessly kill ranis and most of other frigsized ships too.
dark slanesh	Posted - 2009.11.03 01:29:00 - [25] Hi, sorry to derail slightly but I fly a crow a lot and am training up my hybrid skills so was thinking about doing gall frigate 5 for the taranis but have a couple of questions. How much dps does a rail taranis loose to tracking? EG before overheating, gang or implants my crow setup does 94 DPS (lvl 5 skills) but pretty much all of that DPS will be applied to a destroyer hull. EFT tells me that a taranis with 75mm rails (CN iridium), 2x mag stabs and 2x warrior 2's will do 113 dps - how much of that DPS will be applied to a destroyer target? - how much would be applied to a frigate target? PS i'd want the taranis for the blaster fit but this thread made me curious about rails and whether they offer any advantage over a crow?
Draeklore Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.11.03 02:33:00 - [26] Edited by: Draeklore on 03/11/2009 02:33:16 Originally by: dark slanesh Hi, sorry to derail slightly but I fly a crow a lot and am training up my hybrid skills so was thinking about doing gall frigate 5 for the taranis but have a couple of questions. How much dps does a rail taranis loose to tracking? EG before overheating, gang or implants my crow setup does 94 DPS (lvl 5 skills) but pretty much all of that DPS will be applied to a destroyer hull. EFT tells me that a taranis with 75mm rails (CN iridium), 2x mag stabs and 2x warrior 2's will do 113 dps - how much of that DPS will be applied to a destroyer target? - how much would be applied to a frigate target? PS i'd want the taranis for the blaster fit but this thread made me curious about rails and whether they offer any advantage over a crow? Too many factors to answer this question directly. How close are you orbiting your target? How fast are you orbiting? Do you have Motion Prediction 5?
Beltantis Torrence NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.11.03 03:29:00 - [27] Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 03/11/2009 03:34:44 Originally by: dark slanesh Hi, sorry to derail slightly but I fly a crow a lot and am training up my hybrid skills so was thinking about doing gall frigate 5 for the taranis but have a couple of questions. How much dps does a rail taranis loose to tracking? EG before overheating, gang or implants my crow setup does 94 DPS (lvl 5 skills) but pretty much all of that DPS will be applied to a destroyer hull. EFT tells me that a taranis with 75mm rails (CN iridium), 2x mag stabs and 2x warrior 2's will do 113 dps - how much of that DPS will be applied to a destroyer target? - how much would be applied to a frigate target? PS i'd want the taranis for the blaster fit but this thread made me curious about rails and whether they offer any advantage over a crow? Its all about controlling range and choosing the right ammo. You'd very rarely use 75mm rails on a rail-ranis and never use two magstabs because you need speed to keep away from crusaders and blaster taranis's. The key points of solo pvp with a rail taranis is range and speed, you need to be fast and you need to have the right ammo for the target in question. The other thing is depending on what you're fighting you either keep @ range or orbit. Against frigs I almost always use keep at range to keep them away from me with a perma-overloaded web. Against bigger ships I orbit. Against cruisers I'll often orbit quite close, depending on the ship (zealots I orbit at 500m, thorax/rupture/hurricane I'd orbit at 17k). Some ships I use the web to hold them back and others I use the web to kill their drones. Against a crusader I'm going to keep him @ around 17km if possible with navy thorium, against a blaster ranis or rifter I'll try to keep them at 12km with plutonium, against a dessie I'll try to orbit at 20km with spike then tighten it up when they get into armor. Its all highly situational and yes the rail ranis is much better than the crow because the DPS is quite higher. Edited to add: To say it in a simpler way, the crow and rail ranis work differently. The crow works by orbiting as fast as possible to avoid damage while applying weak damage. The rail taranis (against frigs at least) works by sitting in a range where you do more damage than your enemy with low transversal and keeping that range distance. If anything the rail ranis is more like a crusader than a blasteranis or a crow.
Feyona R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.11.03 03:32:00 - [28] Edited by: Feyona on 03/11/2009 03:34:41 Originally by: dark slanesh Hi, sorry to derail slightly but I fly a crow a lot and am training up my hybrid skills so was thinking about doing gall frigate 5 for the taranis but have a couple of questions. How much dps does a rail taranis loose to tracking? EG before overheating, gang or implants my crow setup does 94 DPS (lvl 5 skills) but pretty much all of that DPS will be applied to a destroyer hull. EFT tells me that a taranis with 75mm rails (CN iridium), 2x mag stabs and 2x warrior 2's will do 113 dps - how much of that DPS will be applied to a destroyer target? - how much would be applied to a frigate target? PS i'd want the taranis for the blaster fit but this thread made me curious about rails and whether they offer any advantage over a crow? In short, no, they don't, not for that particular fight. Rail ranis will beat a Crow in a 1 vs 1 most of the time but vs a Sabre I'd rather have the Crow. They won't catch you unless you're dumb, you don't need to worry about cap issues, etc etc. If he's got a scram or a web, expecting to kite him at 12km is kinda unrealistic, as he can simply approach + overheat one or all of his mids and you're caught. With the larger rails... maybe, but I'd still take the Crow I think.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.11.03 13:53:00 - [29] Crow with td is pretty good vs dessies, but it sucks vs inties. Mwding inty will just mitigate ALOT of sml damage /also claw, sader and ranis have much more ehp than crow/, so its pilot has alot of time to disengage or catch you. And usually 1 pulse of overheated mwd is enough.


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