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Krail'Aryn
Minmatar
Rangers Of Itzil'zah
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Posted - 2009.11.01 11:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Krail''Aryn on 01/11/2009 11:34:25
Why is Microwarp Drive forbidden in deadspace?
I'd like that question answered in both "New Eden physics" and "Developer philosophy" as to why you make it so difficult to get 'in the face' of PVE adversaries. It makes autocannons and blasters less preferred to artillery and railguns.
Secondy, will the Dev's be willing to change that in Dominion?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:11:00 -
[2]
It's called deadspace because you can't warp there. That's why you have acceleration gates to move you to the next area. It's "magic".
In most cases, the NPCs will come to you - you just have to be patient :)
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Lotus Sutra
Caldari
Sutra Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:25:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Mara Rinn
It's called deadspace because you can't warp there.
Then why can you warp out if you can't warp there? That being the case, all deadspace pockets should have an accel gate you are required to use to exit the space rather than being able to warp out.
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Kha'Vorn
Gallente
Maori tribe
Phoenix Awakening
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:28:00 -
[4]
Its Eve, normal rules and physics and common sense do not apply here.
Its Just the way it is..
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Discrodia
Gallente
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:29:00 -
[5]
I use an afterburner and Blasterproteus.
I simply see that you aren't willing to invest in a change in your fit, because a close range fit is totally different from a long range one.
MK > You accidentally the whole fleet
PL > We know your CEO's T3 fit
MK > Lolwut?
I will provide a rebuttal as soon as Scotty, the posting manager allows. |
Taedrin
Gallente
Tactical Command Sector
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:30:00 -
[6]
IIRC, you can't use MWD's in deadspace primarily because back in the day, you used to be able to stack MWD's on top of each other. People would be able to bypass acceleration gates by simply flying in th direction that the acceleration gate is pointing with multiple MWD's activated. CCP thus forbid the use of MWD's in deadspace to prevent this from happening.
There are also probably some balance reasons, such as forcing a mission to take longer to complete because the acceleration gate is far away.
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There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made. |
Krail'Aryn
Minmatar
Rangers Of Itzil'zah
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:35:00 -
[7]
I do adjust my fit appropriately, tyvm. I just want to open up another dynamic in the game.
..."back in the day"... -- Sounds like an obsolete reason for blocking MWD. Perhaps it's time to re-open deadspace.
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Winters Chill
Amarr
Sinister Purpose
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
It's "magic".
AKA - "dark matter" a substance that can't be observed, measured, touched, tasted or heard yet we are gonna plop it in there because it accounts for the glaring gaps in our hap hazard cosmological equations. We can't be wrong, we are scientists! - It must be the universe, damn you universe!!!!
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:58:00 -
[9]
My god does no one actually ready any more?
"You cannot warp here because local ********* affects the warp"
Sound familiar?
Basically it was half right with the multiple mwds.
1. Multiple mwds allowed you to mwd to them. Bypassing the gates.
2. You want interceptors speedtanking lvl 4 missions getting 1 heavy ship to gank everything?
3. You really want to be able to easily be attacked with mwd using pilots in deadspace?
4. BACKSTORY. YOu cannot use mwds in deadspace because local phenomena affect the warp drives on your ship stopping you being able to get a lock on certain gravity wells in deadspace, so you can lock onto gravity wells outside of it but not inside...
That clear enough? or shall I have to drag xxx year old threads to show you all, or you can use search...
----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
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Lapsed
Lightspeed Enterprises
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lapsed on 01/11/2009 12:59:02
To my suprise I managed to use my 1 MN micro warp drive in lv 3 Angel Extrav. I was there to drop the tag needed for the bonus room off for a fellow pod pilot.
Not sure if this was a bug or not but I was definatly doing 5km/s + in there.
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Krail'Aryn
Minmatar
Rangers Of Itzil'zah
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Posted - 2009.11.01 12:59:00 -
[11]
Ahh, I see! It makes perfect sense now.
Dark Matter aka Element Zero aka Neutronium.
It creates a terrible drag on your ship that makes your ship fly at a snail's pace in comparison to contemporary rl orbiters.
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.01 13:06:00 -
[12]
Some dev already said they are slowly lifting that restraint. Soon or well at some point in time you will be able to use mwd in all deaspaces like in the good old time. So don't worry.
--
Originally by: Professor Slocombe
I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.01 13:07:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Zartanic on 01/11/2009 13:07:18
1. EVE has only a passing similarity to real physics and often breaks fundamental physics principles. There is no reason to make MWD's an exception to this.
2. Game mechanics and game balance are far more important than some back story. Anyway the back story can be adjusted to suit the game. It's easy to make up any old rubbish to justify a game mechanic.
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Krail'Aryn
Minmatar
Rangers Of Itzil'zah
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Posted - 2009.11.01 13:07:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Krail''Aryn on 01/11/2009 13:07:50
 Good to know. Thanks, Myra
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Passageway
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.01 13:08:00 -
[15]
Agreed, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to bar MWD use in deadspace any longer. Sure looks like the NPCs are using them.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.11.01 13:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Krail'Aryn
Why is Microwarp Drive forbidden in deadspace?
Once upon a time, ships had much greater MWD speeds. People used to talk about 10+km/second battleships, some smaller ships with oversized MWDs could even reach much higher speeds and so on and so forth, AFTER the dual-MWD thingy was cut out (which had even more ludicrous speed numbers involved)... even before rigs were introduced (and right after they were introduced, before the nano-nerf, you had 30+km/sec battleships and up to around hundred km/sec for a select few group of ships with expensive lol-speed-fits - but that last part is not relevant here).
Point is, at that time, ships going waaaAAAaaay too fast with a MWD on were a distinct possibility.
At that time, most DED complexes were STATIC, which meant that somebody in a really fast ship could simply bypass the locked acceleration gates and wreak havoc where they shouldn't all too easily - nowadays, most complexes are around in exploration, so not really that much of an issue - besides, why NOT allow people to invade your 0.0 complex ?
Also, back in that day, L3 missions were considered somewhat dangerous, and L4s were considered the territory of insanely talented and skilled people (not like today, with a 2-month-old Raven pilot managing most L4s just fine), so bypassing the gates in MISSIONS was actually a concern too (nowadays, even a newbie will consider it not just as easy if not easier to just clear the mission normally, not to speak of the fact he gets much more moolah this way).
Long story short, BACK IN THE DAY, allowing ships to use MWDs in mission/complex areas was not really a good idea.
Nowadays, it would be quite irrelevant (for those concerns of old, anyway) if you let people use MWDs in those areas, but the "thing" presists because everybody has gotten used to it and no longer really cares WHY it was forbidden in the first place.
The drawback of condemning most short-range weapon systems to gross under-performance in those areas was also considered a worthy sacrifice considering the "potential exploits" that were being avoided, but to be honest, now, that those consequences are no longer of any relevance, this particular sacrifice is quite annoying.
Oh, and, by the way - mission NPCs continued to use MWDs for a long time after player MWDs no longer worked, and an even longer time after all mission NPCs were reduced to afterburner-like-speeds they were still getting the MWD sig penalty (they no longer to, but it's not that far in the past to not remember it vividly).
CCP should re-enable MWD usage in deadspace areas - and also restore deadspace NPC MWD functionality too.
This would make it so you get a pretty fair balance between short-range missionboats and long-range missionboats - short range ones pack more punch but use a lot more capacitor so their tank is weaker... but the long-range ones will start having a lot more trouble with the small craft that they no longer can simply snipe early on, as they close in a lot faster.
If they still need some form of drawback, instead of having MWDs not work at all in deadspace, just make them use slightly more capacitor.
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Lotus Sutra
Caldari
Sutra Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.01 13:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
or you can use search...
Eve Forums search is a joke and you know it.
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Taedrin
Gallente
Tactical Command Sector
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Posted - 2009.11.01 13:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T
(which had even more ludicrous speed numbers involved)
They've gone to PLAID!
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There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made. |
Anferney
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.01 15:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Winters Chill
AKA - "dark matter" a substance that can't be observed, measured, touched, tasted or heard yet we are gonna plop it in there because it accounts for the glaring gaps in our hap hazard cosmological equations. We can't be wrong, we are scientists! - It must be the universe, damn you universe!!!!
Actually, dark matter has been shown to exist in a manner that cannot be accounted for by having an incorrect theory of gravity [Linkage].
/end physics grad student rant
Here it is. Isn't it unique? |
Norma Stitz
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Posted - 2009.11.01 20:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Taedrin
IIRC, you can't use MWD's in deadspace primarily because back in the day, you used to be able to stack MWD's on top of each other. People would be able to bypass acceleration gates by simply flying in th direction that the acceleration gate is pointing with multiple MWD's activated. CCP thus forbid the use of MWD's in deadspace to prevent this from happening.
There are also probably some balance reasons, such as forcing a mission to take longer to complete because the acceleration gate is far away.
I think the acceleration gates were added a while after mwd stacking was stopped. Might be wrong, it was a long time ago.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.01 20:51:00 -
[21]
It'd be nice if they would remove the restriction. I love W-Space because of no MWD restriction in plexes.
Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
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Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lotus Sutra
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
or you can use search...
Eve Forums search is a joke and you know it.
http://eve-search.com courtesy of Chribba.
Short answer to op...
You cannot warp to deadspaces because your warpdrive cannot lock onto the target location. MWD does this in very small steps but it too cannot lock onto the direction it needs to go.
Some missions are set in NON deadspace and therefore they allow MWD's to operate.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Wen Illiad
Black Line Inc.
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2009.11.01 21:30:00 -
[23]
They should reenable MWD in Deadspace so people can ninja loot easier. It's a pain in the rear having to slow boat around to the wrecks.
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Ryhss
Caldari
Sarum A Fortiori
Sanctimony of Bellum
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Posted - 2009.11.01 23:27:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ryhss on 01/11/2009 23:27:59
Originally by: Kha'Vorn
Its Eve, normal rules and physics and common sense do not apply here.
Its Just the way it is..
Yup. Welcome to a game!!!
This 5 minutes between posts crap needs to stop, NOW.
I think not, therefore I am not. |
nafiy gnaw
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Posted - 2009.11.02 00:17:00 -
[25]
Erm, even though missions arent difficult, I believe you still need to aggro manage, so you need to use long-range weapons. Unless you can tank 2000 +DPS that is, which, unless you spend billions and billions on officer modules, isnt gonna happen.
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Solomon Weyland
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.02 01:42:00 -
[26]
Engineered timesink, welcome to the wonderful world of MMOs. If you could MWD is most missions you wouldn't have to spend 20 years slowboating to the next gate.
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.02 02:35:00 -
[27]
because is easier to limit things that balance/fix things any other argument is pure bull**** |
plastastic
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Posted - 2009.11.02 02:53:00 -
[28]
they dont let you use mwd in dead space because people use to just mwd to the bonus room in the plexs without killing anything but the faction/dead space drop and thus destroying the eve economy.
so no its not going to change for dominion because this was a fix to a problem long ago
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.02 03:30:00 -
[29]
You can MWD in 0.0 deadspace, CCP thought it was unfair to those poor tacklers slow boating towards their targets.
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