EVE Search - Breaking Missile "I win gun" Superiority.

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Breaking Missile "I win gun" Superiority.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Fuse	Posted - 2004.11.04 06:00:00 - [91] What I want is a Vulcan gun that can hit frigates for Battleships. Low damage auto targeting and oh yes it should be able to hit a frigate enough to make it use some kind of shield boost or armor repair. If this would also hit missiles that would be cool. Yes it would have a limited range and it would only fire back at ships doing damage to you. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Fuse	Posted - 2004.11.04 06:00:00 - [92] What I want is a Vulcan gun that can hit frigates for Battleships. Low damage auto targeting and oh yes it should be able to hit a frigate enough to make it use some kind of shield boost or armor repair. If this would also hit missiles that would be cool. Yes it would have a limited range and it would only fire back at ships doing damage to you. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2004.11.04 06:14:00 - [93] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 04/11/2004 06:32:06 Originally by: Infinity Ziona Wow you have a serious attitude problem Duckmaster. It doesn't hurt any and it actually helps you, if you have a little respect and maturity in your posts. You sound like a little brat. My 10 year old daughter makes posts here and they're a lot more mature then yours. If you think about it, Derisor might be an alt (like you) or he might not (which does not mean he can't have an opinion). So what. Infinity Its like you took raw stupidity and refined it into a single post. His ideas are both absurd (as you yourself pointed out) and ALL OVER. I wouldnt really care so much if he didnt want to make horrible changes to a PVP system he didnt understand. But he is. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2004.11.04 06:14:00 - [94] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 04/11/2004 06:32:06 Originally by: Infinity Ziona Wow you have a serious attitude problem Duckmaster. It doesn't hurt any and it actually helps you, if you have a little respect and maturity in your posts. You sound like a little brat. My 10 year old daughter makes posts here and they're a lot more mature then yours. If you think about it, Derisor might be an alt (like you) or he might not (which does not mean he can't have an opinion). So what. Infinity Its like you took raw stupidity and refined it into a single post. His ideas are both absurd (as you yourself pointed out) and ALL OVER. I wouldnt really care so much if he didnt want to make horrible changes to a PVP system he didnt understand. But he is. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Balsak	Posted - 2004.11.04 07:05:00 - [95] I must regretfully inform you that this is the way Derisor is. While he may have an actual levelled alt I highly doubt it because we would have heard from this guy a long time ago. I have have experience with this guy in other games before and this is just his way. He did play Eve back in beta and right up until Eve shipped he whined and complained and said Eve would fail. This is simpley a hobby with him to go around to every game and then troll the forum boards with his constant critisism of the game and anyone who disagrees with him.
Balsak	Posted - 2004.11.04 07:05:00 - [96] I must regretfully inform you that this is the way Derisor is. While he may have an actual levelled alt I highly doubt it because we would have heard from this guy a long time ago. I have have experience with this guy in other games before and this is just his way. He did play Eve back in beta and right up until Eve shipped he whined and complained and said Eve would fail. This is simpley a hobby with him to go around to every game and then troll the forum boards with his constant critisism of the game and anyone who disagrees with him.
Reloaded INC	Posted - 2004.11.04 07:09:00 - [97] ok their are plenty of ways to countre missle spammers, if they are bringing in a missle defense ship id like to see some cloaked missles please, its only fair. oh but u no like missles! hey why dont we just nerf caldari to being slow fat arssed target jammers ... oh wait. I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
Reloaded INC	Posted - 2004.11.04 07:09:00 - [98] ok their are plenty of ways to countre missle spammers, if they are bringing in a missle defense ship id like to see some cloaked missles please, its only fair. oh but u no like missles! hey why dont we just nerf caldari to being slow fat arssed target jammers ... oh wait. I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2004.11.04 07:54:00 - [99] nerfwhine again, omgomg. you can warp away from missiles once they've beens launched, you can't warp away from guns once they've been triggered. ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
Vex Seraphim	Posted - 2004.11.04 07:54:00 - [100] nerfwhine again, omgomg. you can warp away from missiles once they've beens launched, you can't warp away from guns once they've been triggered. ------------------- :: finite horizon :: killboard :: :: bio :: blog ::
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.04 09:16:00 - [101] I notice that most of those who say missiles are fine are Caldaris, and almost all hte rest Minmatar, but whatever... Large missiles can be evaded? Not by their intended targets, unless you make your ship pretty much useless against any non-missile user. For rockets and light missiles, I do agree that a big speed boost is required, but then it's part of what's intended for the missile overhaul... Missiles can be countered? let me see: -Med smartbombs are of doubfull use now that they can't destroy torpedoes. -Large smartbombs use too much cap to be effective. The only ship what could MAYBE use one without ruining his cap within 30 secs would be an Apoc. -defenders are borked on half the ships -Missiles users can switch to FoF missiles when they're jamed (nearly half the battles I saw included heavy EW use). Missiles take time to reach their target? Yes, but that's more than compensated by the range polyvalence you can have in a single setup. Do you know any turret that can hit a frig at 2.5km and another at 80km? I'd like to order some of them... And those who say you can hit something at 150km with a turret conveniently forget to mention that it require a heavily specialized setup.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.04 09:16:00 - [102] I notice that most of those who say missiles are fine are Caldaris, and almost all hte rest Minmatar, but whatever... Large missiles can be evaded? Not by their intended targets, unless you make your ship pretty much useless against any non-missile user. For rockets and light missiles, I do agree that a big speed boost is required, but then it's part of what's intended for the missile overhaul... Missiles can be countered? let me see: -Med smartbombs are of doubfull use now that they can't destroy torpedoes. -Large smartbombs use too much cap to be effective. The only ship what could MAYBE use one without ruining his cap within 30 secs would be an Apoc. -defenders are borked on half the ships -Missiles users can switch to FoF missiles when they're jamed (nearly half the battles I saw included heavy EW use). Missiles take time to reach their target? Yes, but that's more than compensated by the range polyvalence you can have in a single setup. Do you know any turret that can hit a frig at 2.5km and another at 80km? I'd like to order some of them... And those who say you can hit something at 150km with a turret conveniently forget to mention that it require a heavily specialized setup.
F'nog	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:17:00 - [103] The thing I really agree with Shadowsword about is the skill requirements for using turrets vs missiles. In order to be really effective with turrets, you do have to train far more skills than you do for missiles. It would be nice if there were more missile skills that made them more effective with training (which I think there will be, if I remember correctly), which should perhaps be countered slightly by lessening their initial damage given their lack of missing. As it is now, a player can be in a Caracal and ready to us it very effectively in far less time than any turret wielding cruiser. Just look at all the people who use Caracals for agent missions. One could counter that using a gun is more difficult than a guided missile, but even today we have computer that do most of the tracking and calculations on guns so that the user doesn't really need to be all that capable to hit a target. Thus in a futuristic environment like Eve the ship should be doing a lot of the work, instead of the pilot. This isn't to say they should change how guns work, just an observation of mechanics. One thing that I think should be added is the chance for missiles to miss their target. One nice thing about EnB was that targets had a missile countermeasure strength so that missiles didn't automatically hit. This could be implemented in Eve with a base chance on ships that can be affected by skills and new mods that are designed to confuse missile lock. Even in the real world missiles do not automatically hit. There are countermeasure like chaff and flares and evasive maneuvering to dodge missiles, even radar, visual, or heat guided ones. If they brougt back splash damage this could add a lot of fun and a tactical edge to combat, with missiles missing altogether, or exploding near targets sometimes (not often, mind you) for less damage. I still don't agree with Derisor's original post, but missiles always hitting makes them too easy, and unskilled, to use. Many will probably disagree, but I think having to use some skill (both ingame and personal) to use them would make them more fun.
F'nog	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:17:00 - [104] The thing I really agree with Shadowsword about is the skill requirements for using turrets vs missiles. In order to be really effective with turrets, you do have to train far more skills than you do for missiles. It would be nice if there were more missile skills that made them more effective with training (which I think there will be, if I remember correctly), which should perhaps be countered slightly by lessening their initial damage given their lack of missing. As it is now, a player can be in a Caracal and ready to us it very effectively in far less time than any turret wielding cruiser. Just look at all the people who use Caracals for agent missions. One could counter that using a gun is more difficult than a guided missile, but even today we have computer that do most of the tracking and calculations on guns so that the user doesn't really need to be all that capable to hit a target. Thus in a futuristic environment like Eve the ship should be doing a lot of the work, instead of the pilot. This isn't to say they should change how guns work, just an observation of mechanics. One thing that I think should be added is the chance for missiles to miss their target. One nice thing about EnB was that targets had a missile countermeasure strength so that missiles didn't automatically hit. This could be implemented in Eve with a base chance on ships that can be affected by skills and new mods that are designed to confuse missile lock. Even in the real world missiles do not automatically hit. There are countermeasure like chaff and flares and evasive maneuvering to dodge missiles, even radar, visual, or heat guided ones. If they brougt back splash damage this could add a lot of fun and a tactical edge to combat, with missiles missing altogether, or exploding near targets sometimes (not often, mind you) for less damage. I still don't agree with Derisor's original post, but missiles always hitting makes them too easy, and unskilled, to use. Many will probably disagree, but I think having to use some skill (both ingame and personal) to use them would make them more fun.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:18:00 - [105] Originally by: Krulla Check this out: Derisor's Employment History For those too lazy to click, It's a picture of Derisor the all knowing PvP guru's employment history. He was created 21st october 2004, joined his corp three days after that, and has been there for 10 days. Your character is 13 days old, and you are whining you are getting owned in "every battle you have been in" (I'm guessing you got ganked at a gate by a raven once) by "billions of torps"? (I'm guessing said raven used one volley of 6 torps to kill his imicus.). Train your skills. Learn the game. Learn the counters to your banes. If at first you fail, dont whine on the forums, but try again! It might occur to you that I have other characters. It also might occur to you that I have other friends in RL as well as in game that have more experience than I. These things might occur to you but then they would require you using that gelatinous mass of grey cells between your ears. It also might occur to you that you simply disagree and others with the same experience as your godly self might agree with me and have; including apparently the devs of the game. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:18:00 - [106] Originally by: Krulla Check this out: Derisor's Employment History For those too lazy to click, It's a picture of Derisor the all knowing PvP guru's employment history. He was created 21st october 2004, joined his corp three days after that, and has been there for 10 days. Your character is 13 days old, and you are whining you are getting owned in "every battle you have been in" (I'm guessing you got ganked at a gate by a raven once) by "billions of torps"? (I'm guessing said raven used one volley of 6 torps to kill his imicus.). Train your skills. Learn the game. Learn the counters to your banes. If at first you fail, dont whine on the forums, but try again! It might occur to you that I have other characters. It also might occur to you that I have other friends in RL as well as in game that have more experience than I. These things might occur to you but then they would require you using that gelatinous mass of grey cells between your ears. It also might occur to you that you simply disagree and others with the same experience as your godly self might agree with me and have; including apparently the devs of the game. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:23:00 - [107] You know what I find amazing? The vitrol in here. People cant simply respond that they disagree. They cant simply stick to the facts, they have to open up floodgates of personal insults, hostility and vitrol. What's wrong with you people? --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:23:00 - [108] You know what I find amazing? The vitrol in here. People cant simply respond that they disagree. They cant simply stick to the facts, they have to open up floodgates of personal insults, hostility and vitrol. What's wrong with you people? --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
khainestar	Posted - 2004.11.04 14:27:00 - [109] whats wrong with them.. easy they enjoy it. I would like to see missiles and turrets able to hit other things. I have seen many movies where one side hides behind a hill or a wall and lets the shot bounce off them. If we are going for realism let have turrets and missiles that can hit other than the intended target. So a good pilot could get enemy ships to hit each other. I just got visions of frigates hiding behind a battleship when they get fired at ----------------------------------------------------- Pain. Looks great on other people. Its what there for.
khainestar	Posted - 2004.11.04 14:27:00 - [110] whats wrong with them.. easy they enjoy it. I would like to see missiles and turrets able to hit other things. I have seen many movies where one side hides behind a hill or a wall and lets the shot bounce off them. If we are going for realism let have turrets and missiles that can hit other than the intended target. So a good pilot could get enemy ships to hit each other. I just got visions of frigates hiding behind a battleship when they get fired at ----------------------------------------------------- Pain. Looks great on other people. Its what there for.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.11.04 14:52:00 - [111] Derisor, if you're going to bring up topics such as this, which I have to say, are badly researched on your part, then you're going to have to grow a thicker skin. The exaggerations don't help your case either, they harm it. Complaining that people don't like your ideas isn't going to help either. It's to be expected. Also, defenders do shoot down torps. I'm not sure what sort of 'hard fact' you're hoping for there though. I just know I've shot at people with defenders, and in the time it takes the torps to reach the target, half of them have been destroyed. .
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.11.04 14:52:00 - [112] Derisor, if you're going to bring up topics such as this, which I have to say, are badly researched on your part, then you're going to have to grow a thicker skin. The exaggerations don't help your case either, they harm it. Complaining that people don't like your ideas isn't going to help either. It's to be expected. Also, defenders do shoot down torps. I'm not sure what sort of 'hard fact' you're hoping for there though. I just know I've shot at people with defenders, and in the time it takes the torps to reach the target, half of them have been destroyed. .
Noriath	Posted - 2004.11.04 15:01:00 - [113] Defenders are nice and all, but since half the ships in this game can't even have launchers thei're kind of useless for everyone who doesn't currently benefit from the many advantages of having launchers... Seriously, a launcher can be used to do all kinds of damage, fire defenders, can atack without having a target - and all that by simply swiching ammo. Regardless of how well balanced damage and hit chances are, to me it seems like a single launcher can do more then 8 highslots ful of different guns and other equipment...
Noriath	Posted - 2004.11.04 15:01:00 - [114] Defenders are nice and all, but since half the ships in this game can't even have launchers thei're kind of useless for everyone who doesn't currently benefit from the many advantages of having launchers... Seriously, a launcher can be used to do all kinds of damage, fire defenders, can atack without having a target - and all that by simply swiching ammo. Regardless of how well balanced damage and hit chances are, to me it seems like a single launcher can do more then 8 highslots ful of different guns and other equipment...
Reloaded INC	Posted - 2004.11.04 15:20:00 - [115] all battleships bar the dominix can have defenders even my bantam can have defenders granted their are those cruisers/frigates that cant but got mwd got smart bomb? this constant flailing of limbs by some people who dont have a clue for a nerf they know nothing about really ****s me of. if you so much implemented half of those changes caldari ships would be degenerated to orbital Electronic Warefare platforms. i fly minmatar and caldari soon to be training amarr. from what i can see having done alot of pvp'ing and alot of dying its not missles that kill me its my own stupidity.so stop asking for a nerf i notice a few here that are asking for it are empire dwellers who need to get a clue im not goping to list pro's and con's just read up 3 pages just dont start asking for nerfs the poor bloody tempest has seen enough already we dont need anymore. I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
Reloaded INC	Posted - 2004.11.04 15:20:00 - [116] all battleships bar the dominix can have defenders even my bantam can have defenders granted their are those cruisers/frigates that cant but got mwd got smart bomb? this constant flailing of limbs by some people who dont have a clue for a nerf they know nothing about really ****s me of. if you so much implemented half of those changes caldari ships would be degenerated to orbital Electronic Warefare platforms. i fly minmatar and caldari soon to be training amarr. from what i can see having done alot of pvp'ing and alot of dying its not missles that kill me its my own stupidity.so stop asking for a nerf i notice a few here that are asking for it are empire dwellers who need to get a clue im not goping to list pro's and con's just read up 3 pages just dont start asking for nerfs the poor bloody tempest has seen enough already we dont need anymore. I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
kurg	Posted - 2004.11.04 15:24:00 - [117] the arma cant fit launchers either so .... even the paranoid has real enemies...
kurg	Posted - 2004.11.04 15:24:00 - [118] the arma cant fit launchers either so .... even the paranoid has real enemies...
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.04 15:30:00 - [119] Originally by: Noriath Defenders are nice and all, but since half the ships in this game can't even have launchers thei're kind of useless for everyone who doesn't currently benefit from the many advantages of having launchers... Defenders are nice...when they work! Try using them with a Megathron while moving and you'll see why I say they're bugged. I lost one because of that.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.11.04 15:30:00 - [120] Originally by: Noriath Defenders are nice and all, but since half the ships in this game can't even have launchers thei're kind of useless for everyone who doesn't currently benefit from the many advantages of having launchers... Defenders are nice...when they work! Try using them with a Megathron while moving and you'll see why I say they're bugged. I lost one because of that.

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.