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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2009.11.06 10:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Planks TL;DR Are our brains simply unable to understand the universe at this stage of our evolution?
I can tell you now that we will never ever be able to understand the universe. Why? Easy, We still cant figure out our own world...
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
dr doooo
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.11.06 12:21:00 -
[32]
(In my layman's opinion,so anyone more knowledgeable please correct me:)
No. For a start, how would we ever know that what we can see (or guess at beyond our perception) is all that there is. Even if you were able to look in on human knowledge from a 'godlike' perspective, and say 'yup, they've cracked it all', people would still be speculating about what lay beyond the current limits of knowledge about the cosmos.
Humans can also never truly understand reality. The best we can manage is a personal interpretation of it through our imperfect senses and brains. There could be dimensions to the cosmos that we are incapable of even conceiving in a mathematical formula. How do even know that what the scientists think now about the cosmos is true, and not some misinterpretation? Why does the earth appear to us to be in the centre of the universe? Assuming that the earth isn't really, by some fluke, actually the centre of the universe, surely any later explanation of this could throw out all that we think we know about the size/age etc of the universe???
As to evolution of the human brain as I understand it, it has pretty much reached it's limits as far as size and intelligence goes. Any bigger and people would get stupider, like some of our earlier ancestors who actually had bigger brains. So an increase in 'brainpower' would require redesigning a brain 'from the ground up' so to speak.
More generally though, one theory is that humans are actually evolving at an unusually fast rate at the moment. Recent changes in our lifestyle and environment, like agriculture and a settled life, population growth, new habitats etc. means that our bodies are facing a whole new set of challenges in the form of diseases, bacteria, diet etc. A couple of well known evolutionary changes as a result of this are lactose tolerance in adults in the northern hemisphere, and a genetic resistance to malaria in parts of Africa, but there are supposedly heaps of other subtle evolutionary changes happening, particularly in relation to bacterial resistance.
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Alfred Lichtenstein
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Posted - 2009.11.06 12:52:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Alfred Lichtenstein on 06/11/2009 12:57:22 I think there are some really dumb comments on this thread particularly about the universe being bigger than someone head!
EPIC FAIL!
ok that done let me get a crack onto what I think, Firstly I am very religious just so you know but also an Applied Physicist and very interested in our universe and I think most of the accepted scientific thinking is correct and personally think a lot more money needs to be spend on this sort of stuff.
Ok intro done
I think there is no chance without 3rd party help in the human race ascending to a 'godly' level of technology with all the secrets discovered in our life time. I believe there are just far to many questions to answer and far to few of us to do it and more importantly todays society isn't ready for the push required for it!
Remember science is controlled in a great part by funding and most breakthroughs today require millions or billions of pounds/dollars etc to complete and who controls this?
Companies in a small part but they usually only fund short term research that will make them money in the short term 1-100 years.
The large researchers are governments but as we see from the latest results from the UK goverments clash with the advisors (over a paper he released disagreeing with the goverments position on drugs) thats only welcome when the results agree with policy.
So what has happened IMO? We live it what has become the second great scientific gagging. The monetary gagging, people like Galileo was physically gagged so he had ideas about our world which he was stopped from declaring by all our favourite baddies the catholic church.
Now we live in a world where research into areas that could SAVE US ALL, SAVE US ALL like nuclear fusion only get 1bn a year research grants less than the UK spends on ringtones a year and only 1/178th of what we spend on unemployment a year.
Why?
The purse string holders are to busy looking after themselves and ensuring they get re-elected this is stalling humanities evolution! IMO we will probably be destroyed due to something we make or a massive natural disaster before we have the power to stop it, and alas have the power to discover everything we want too!
were to busy in our crusades for democracy, something else we now have in common with medieval europe!
A reason for mass murder and genocide!
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Rosolo Refili
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Posted - 2009.11.06 13:15:00 -
[34]
I think people need to understand evolution a little better!
if you cut off everyone on the earths right hand there wouldn't be unusual numbers of kids born with no right hands or right hands that are harder to cut off!
there might however be more kids born because the men of the earth couldn't self satisfy themselves as much so would look to maybe uglier than usual women for there thrill this might then cause a reverse in current trends where people are getting better and better looking!
evolution says that if your ugly there is less chance of attracting a mate so there is less chance of you having kids so your ugly genes die out!
then again what is ugly!
so in our current society many traditional forms of evolution are reduced and others remain!
we do however do stupid things like free houses for single mums which will cause some genetically inferiour people who can't keep a relationship together to continue to have more kids with different partners who in turn can't keep a relationship together and people with more intellegence who statistically have less kids and later watering down the intellegence of the population where before intellegence meant there was less chance of your kids dying!
It's kind of the same with cancer in a few generations we could all have it several times in our lives (genetically caused) and because we cure it now especially in pre procreative adults a lot more our genetics are effectively getting more and more cluttered with it
not saying we shouldn cure it just trying to explain evolution to the hand cutter brigade!
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SEN 5243
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Posted - 2009.11.06 14:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rosolo Refili I think people need to understand evolution a little better!
if you cut off everyone on the earths right hand there wouldn't be unusual numbers of kids born with no right hands or right hands that are harder to cut off!
there might however be more kids born because the men of the earth couldn't self satisfy themselves as much so would look to maybe uglier than usual women for there thrill this might then cause a reverse in current trends where people are getting better and better looking!
evolution says that if your ugly there is less chance of attracting a mate so there is less chance of you having kids so your ugly genes die out!
then again what is ugly!
so in our current society many traditional forms of evolution are reduced and others remain!
we do however do stupid things like free houses for single mums which will cause some genetically inferiour people who can't keep a relationship together to continue to have more kids with different partners who in turn can't keep a relationship together and people with more intellegence who statistically have less kids and later watering down the intellegence of the population where before intellegence meant there was less chance of your kids dying!
It's kind of the same with cancer in a few generations we could all have it several times in our lives (genetically caused) and because we cure it now especially in pre procreative adults a lot more our genetics are effectively getting more and more cluttered with it
not saying we shouldn cure it just trying to explain evolution to the hand cutter brigade!
you dont even know intelligence my friend, yet you talk about it. that completly water down thing in this society what we call intelligence aint really intelligent at all.
intelligence is not limited to one or two things it is all pervading and as such you cannot know it.
what you know is only a fragment of that, a projecrtion. parts. nothing more.
you never can get the "whole" since you already are otherwise would not be whole no? :p
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Rosolo Refili
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Posted - 2009.11.06 15:19:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Rosolo Refili on 06/11/2009 15:23:00
Although your thoughts on intellegence are interesting, I wasn't trying to question it just making the point that as long as we reward (I mean by increasing survival and there ability to conceive offspring) attributes that we perceive as negative such as an inability to keep a relationship together (or there own legs for that matter) and remove the social acceptability and penalise the more capable people then evolution will lead the human race to be less and less capable!
but interesting thoughts, but I prefer to be able to define things if we spend forever trying to understand a simple principles like intellegence (which we created(the principle that is!)) we would never get anywhere!
whenever I am doing a project for work my first job is to assume which allows me to build a strong foundation to work from!
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SEN 5243
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Posted - 2009.11.06 15:24:00 -
[37]
Edited by: SEN 5243 on 06/11/2009 15:28:40
Originally by: Rosolo Refili Edited by: Rosolo Refili on 06/11/2009 15:21:36 Although your thoughts on intellegence are interesting, I wasn't trying to question it just making the point that as long as we reward (I mean by increasing survival and there ability to conceive offspring) attributes that we perceive as negative such as an inability to keep a relationship together (of there own legs for that matter) and remove the social acceptability and penalise the more capable people then evolution will lead the human race to be less and less capable!
but interesting thoughts, but I prefer to be able to define things if we spend forever trying to understand a simple principles like intellegence (which we created(the principle that is!)) we would never get anywhere!
whenever I am doing a project for work my first job is to assume which allows me to build a strong foundation to work from!
good thats why theres not only emptiness but also form. one cannot exist without the other.
evolution leading the human race to less capable? it is always of ones own choice. there is no other out there.
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Rosolo Refili
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Posted - 2009.11.06 15:47:00 -
[38]
hmmmm and they say drugs don't damage your head..........
:P
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Drunk Driver
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.06 16:48:00 -
[39]
The cosmos.....
That's space stuff, right?
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Adam C
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2009.11.06 17:33:00 -
[40]
going back to the monkeys
if chimps are 2.5 million years behind us, why is that and in 2.5 million years will they be humans too! 0o
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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr Splinter Pack
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Posted - 2009.11.06 17:50:00 -
[41]
Simply put. Will they figure out everything about the universe withing me lifetime?
Answer: Yes.
Mainly because i simply wont die.
I got i'm guessing about 70 more years left of natural life in my body. With the extra time added from genetic treatments and organ exchange/regrowth i should look at an extra 30-40 years added to that. By then we should have brain upload into computers(machine bodies).
Then i got all the time in the world. Immortal...
________________________________________________ Tau - Yeah we suck in close combat. To bad you will never get there. For the greater good!!
Quote: "I love Australia! Our spiders have health bars. |
Stratio
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.06 23:46:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Stratio on 06/11/2009 23:48:08
Originally by: Alfred Lichtenstein Edited by: Alfred Lichtenstein on 06/11/2009 12:57:22 I think there are some really dumb comments on this thread particularly about the universe being bigger than someone head!
EPIC FAIL!
Care to elaborate? Let me explain my point of view. We have finite, indeed microscopic, number of neurons. There is more information in the universe than our tiny brains could possibly store and comprehend. _____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Tajwel Kura
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Posted - 2009.11.07 02:01:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Tajwel Kura on 07/11/2009 02:04:48
No. I mean look at us now. We build models of the known universe to explain to ourselves how it works. These models are simplified versions that help us understand and envision abstract subjects using shapes and definitions that are easy to comprehend. Open up a chemistry book for example and see the drawing of atom in there. Lots of spheres drawn in center with some spheres balls drawn orbiting the congregation of balls in the center. Whenever you say an atom most people will envision exactly that picture, with the small balls orbiting a few bigger balls in center. Does this mean they understand what an atom really is in all its entirety?
Same with the rest of the universe. We'll build simplified models of it to bring it down to our level of understanding. Can one person grasp it in its entirety? No. It would require you to be simultaneously juggling a myriad of thoughts about everything that is going on in the universe. Your brain is not capable of that. All it can do is refer to these simplified models, but it will not be able to put all these models together, and upgrade them to approximate reality, and understand how everything is interconnected. Human brain has evolved for you to take care of yourself: to eat, sleep, procreate, and raise offspring, and when your utility to the species expires it wears out and you die. Most people in real life have trouble simply just understanding where other people are coming from, seeing others' point of view, and you want them to comprehend an entire universe?
Natural selection has not stopped working. Even in our current environment some people are more likely to procreate than others and pass their genes on. The chances of you getting eaten by a bear are extremely slim nowadays, but now you have a chance of getting hit by a car for example. You might not die to dyphteria when you are 5 y.o. but when you grow up you have access to contraceptives so if you wish to not have children you can willingly decide not to pass your genes on. But this evolution is not necessarily giving us any smarter brains. Only those people who have a chance and make a choice to reproduce in modern society will be the ones passing their genes on to future human society. You don't need an IQ of 160 to do this, in fact smarter people seem to procreate less.
However the great thing is that indeed we are capable of changing our environment and that includes our own bodies. As you know there is a lot of money being put into understanding how the human body works. Mostly it is to fix problems: cure sickness, correct genetic disorders, repair mechanical damage, slow down aging and alleviate mental disorders that come with that. Investigating all these things we are also learning how to enhance out abilities. Right now the enhancements are pretty crude (breast implants for example) but hundreds of years into the future, if we still haven't died all to some plague or an asteroid hitting earth or a nuclear winter, you can envision people learning to enhance their cognitive abilities, improving memory, expanding perception, etc. So basically artificially we can enhance our minds to come closer to understanding the universe.
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