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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:26:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Blazing Lunatic
Ok I'll ask since google isn't helping. WTF is Track IR?
If you'd googled and saw the site for the product, you would know...
It's a 'six degrees of freedom' of '6DOF' head tracking device.
That means you can move your head:
up/down
left/right
backwards forwards
And
turn your head from side to side
tilt your head up and down
tilt your head sideways
And the movement will be represented by 'translated' movement in the program it's being used in.
In EVE's case, the implementation is/was that you could zoom in on a point that you turn your head to look at (similar to the action of first holding the right mouse button while moving the mouse, then holding both mouse buttons and moving the mouse 'up'), or looking 'behind' the direction your camera is currently placed at (holding the right mouse button and moving it left or right until you can see behind where your camera is located).
You could also move your head side to side or up/down so that you could 'look beyond' an object you have selected.
Some of you may well think that in EVE these are only gimmicky functions, but they can and often are useful. There are plenty of situations where an FC will select a ship within a blob as his 'parent', and use the right-click mouse movement to change his viewing direction to get a better look at what is happening within the blob. The same may be done on his own people to make sure there isn't anyone bumping someone else or doing something they aren't supposed to do.
By not constraining this functionality to the mouse, the mouse is left free for that person to do other things while still looking aroudn in this manner.
That said, the implementation in EVE currently isn't that great, and making it truly worth-while just doesn't seem like something that should be hogging development time/resources and code, in my opinion.
For games where you have a first-person view from within a plane, car, helicopter or similar situation, or a first-person shooter, sure, I can see this not only adding a lot of immersion but being plain useful; just not in EVE.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:28:00 -
[32]
Stuff TrackIR. Gimme G15 support! |
Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian
Originally by: Mr Epeen
While Track IR is almost mandatory for a proper PVP game such as a combat flight sim, FPS WW2 shooter or even a racing game (lol?) where situational awareness is important, in a point and click MMO it is really just a waste of clock cycles.
Mr Epeen 
> implying these are 'proper' pvp games and not childrens twitch garbage.
reactionimage.jpg
Not implying, brother. Saying.
Lets see...
Combat in EVE: Click target, click gun, take another bite of pizza.
Combat in IL2 1946: Scanning 360 degrees for enemy planes while coordinating stick, throttle, rudder, flaps, prop pitch, angle of attack, airspeed, etc, etc.
Twitch indeed!
Get a clue before you post drivel, fanboi 
Mr Epeen
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Terro Deagas
Woopatang
Primary.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:13:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Blazing Lunatic
Ok I'll ask since google isn't helping. WTF is Track IR?
Let me google that for you
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Blazing Lunatic
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
Uno Chica Loco
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:52:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Terro Deagas
Originally by: Blazing Lunatic
Ok I'll ask since google isn't helping. WTF is Track IR?
Let me google that for you
Oh rofl! I was seeing that stuff but thought it had nothing to do with Eve. I couldn't imagine how it would be useful for Eve so assumed we weren't talking about the same thing.
Aside from being handicapped in some way how is this useful for Eve exactly?
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:01:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Blazing Lunatic
Aside from being handicapped in some way how is this useful for Eve exactly?
It is useful in validating the $200 purchase that Joe Flightsimmer made with his wife. See the more games he can use his silly hat with, the more use he is getting out of his ridiculously expensive toy and as such has a better chance of convincing said wife that the purchase was not a huge waste of money.
At least that is my reason 
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Quote:
EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Pnandor
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:23:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Pnandor on 13/11/2009 19:25:47
Edited by: Pnandor on 13/11/2009 19:25:07
Edited by: Pnandor on 13/11/2009 19:23:40
Originally by: Blazing Lunatic
Ok I'll ask since google isn't helping. WTF is Track IR?
you can move you head in ****pit view
only works in ****pit view 
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Pnandor
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:29:00 -
[38]
only real pilot do no this and you guy's don't no anything
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Pnandor
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:35:00 -
[39]
Hello Track Ir is only for ****pit veiw games
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Trent0r
Caldari
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.13 20:54:00 -
[40]
Originally by: buttesauce
cant blame em... it seems like a dumb gimmick
Yeah if the market share is low enough then it makes sense that CCP would discontinue it. I was a little bit mad when they got rid of the linux client because I used to use it on my ubuntu partition, but they got rid of it.
I'm no computer scientist but mb design your own open source platform/firmware for it?
Trent
Stare into my kind eyes. |
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Pnandor
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:34:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Pnandor on 13/11/2009 21:34:56
Originally by: Trent0r
Originally by: buttesauce
cant blame em... it seems like a dumb gimmick
Yeah if the market share is low enough then it makes sense that CCP would discontinue it. I was a little bit mad when they got rid of the linux client because I used to use it on my ubuntu partition, but they got rid of it.
I'm no computer scientist but mb design your own open source platform/firmware for it?
Trent
Linux are only for cheates
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Trent0r
Originally by: buttesauce
cant blame em... it seems like a dumb gimmick
Yeah if the market share is low enough then it makes sense that CCP would discontinue it. I was a little bit mad when they got rid of the linux client because I used to use it on my ubuntu partition, but they got rid of it.
I'm no computer scientist but mb design your own open source platform/firmware for it?
Trent
Well, there's two issues.
1. The company behind TrackIR (I forget their name) don't allow interception and interpretation of the data received by the camera, especially not for the purpose of implementation in a program that would emulate the TrackIR API.
2. If there's no support within the actual game platform for the functions provided by the API, there's no way to make use of it.
So after CCP remove the support, it's gone. The best anyone could hope to achieve is that you can control the mouse using your head, and try to retain nothing but the zooming and rotational qualities of the device, but at the expense of 'locking' your mouse' functionality.
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Blazing Lunatic
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
Uno Chica Loco
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:11:00 -
[43]
This still makes zero sense to me. If I turn my head I'm no longer looking at my monitor. Why would anyone ever want to do that?
Is this some kind of late April fool's joke?
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Johnny Actinic
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:39:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Blazing Lunatic
This still makes zero sense to me. If I turn my head I'm no longer looking at my monitor. Why would anyone ever want to do that?
Is this some kind of late April fool's joke?
I can't believe I'm going to answer such a ******ed question, but just in case you are for real...
The motion tracker detects a small movement of your head and magnifies it to your avatar on screen. So, you move your head one degree and the screen shows it as a 10 degree move.
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Lady Karma
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Posted - 2009.11.14 04:10:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Combat in IL2 1946: Scanning 360 degrees for enemy planes while coordinating stick, throttle, rudder, flaps, prop pitch, angle of attack, airspeed, etc, etc.
Twitch indeed!
You just defined a twitch game, congrats.
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.11.14 11:24:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lady Karma
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Combat in IL2 1946: Scanning 360 degrees for enemy planes while coordinating stick, throttle, rudder, flaps, prop pitch, angle of attack, airspeed, etc, etc.
Twitch indeed!
You just defined a twitch game, congrats.
Twitch games are defined as games where your required control of the game extends no further than a basic set of movement controls (forward/back, strafe left/right, jump, crouch, walk), which count as one 'control set', and aiming + clicking (which counts as one control set).
Weapons in most games these days don't account for much of a control set, unless you are talking about a game such as UT or Quake, where different weapons have different uses.
In a game like IL2, when you play with the realism settings on, you have many control sets you need to monitor;
pitch/yaw/roll; each is technically an individual control set since they each affect the other, especially in conjunction with your current air speed, which accounts for a fourth control set.
Then there's the throttle and fuel mixture; wrong throttle/fuel mixture for the pitch+airspeed you are working with and your engine or your plane will stall, these account for two more control sets at the bare minimum.
Then you have to deal with weapons with varying attributes; namely dumb-fire rockets/bombs, soft-lock missiles/guns, dumb-fire guns and hard-lock missiles. This accounts for two control sets in the form of dumb-fire and locking.
Then there's your view; being able to look around your plane or having a decent radar can make the difference between a competent pilot and a great one; if you have to use your mouse and a keyboard button, or hat switches, to control your view, you are essentially 'locking' a control set or two; namely pitch/roll for the mouse or your weapon/locking control sets if your thumb is preoccupied with the hat switch vs the buttons for the other functions.
So for the FPS game you have at most three control sets. For the combat flight sim using a realism mode you have a minimum of 6 control sets.
Armed Assault would be an example of an FPS that has a potential of 4-6 control sets, due to the ability to look around without adjusting your aiming direction, as well as 'real' factors determining the effectiveness of various weapons, as well as that it has vehicles in which the previously mentioned factors come into play again.
As for the guy asking about looking away from the monitor; that's where the 'translation' comes into play. As the one guy mentioned, you can set it so that turning your head just 10 degrees to the left could result in a 120 degree turn (or far more if you want, really). That way your head is generally always facing the monitor, so that your eyes have a small amount of adjustment to make.
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Blazing Lunatic
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
Uno Chica Loco
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Posted - 2009.11.14 14:19:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Blazing Lunatic on 14/11/2009 14:19:45
Originally by: Johnny Actinic
I can't believe I'm going to answer such a ******ed question, but just in case you are for real...
The motion tracker detects a small movement of your head and magnifies it to your avatar on screen. So, you move your head one degree and the screen shows it as a 10 degree move.
Eve has avatars? Not yet as far as I know...
Lets say it's for controlling my ship then. What if I need to sneeze or something? Would my ship spin out of control? How would you drink or eat? I think I'm understanding why this never caught on in Eve. LOL! 
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EangleOne
Gallente
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:11:00 -
[48]
As a TIR user(in flightsim) for... ever since TIR1 released (can't remember when it's anyway), I can say this:
EVE's TIR implementation is completely useless at this moment.
There are many amazing thing that TIR can do in EVE, it's just too bad that CCP doesn't explore the possibility of have 6axis pov control. But if CCP does utilize TIR fully, it might become too powerful and give unfare advantage to TIR user.
Just look at flightsim now, especially in PvP flightsim (ex: AH), can anyone do dogfight without TIR anymore?
It's sad to hear CCP remove it. But since it's quite useless now, relocate the resource and fix some other things is better choice for all of us.
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Elukka
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:19:00 -
[49]
It moves the camera, not the ship.
Apparently they're vastly useful for games like flight sims, but I've never had the chance to try one and don't want to pay the high price.
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Manji Lee
Gallente
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.11.15 11:17:00 -
[50]
Trackir is just fraking expensive to begin with. I mean just to pay $150 American dollars for something that tracks your head movements to different viewpoints, is ridicules high price for most consumers. Unless your a hardcore sim fan, I can't anyone getting this. But on the other hand, I wish at least they keep some support motion. Reason being that there is FreeTrack. Another head tracker but uses any current existing web cams for head tracking. You can take a look at it here.
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.11.15 16:54:00 -
[51]
The entire point of all of this from the dev's perspective is that this is really an unnecessary feature for a game where we don't pilot our ships from a ****pit view point of perspective.
If you want to look around your ship in EVE it's as simple as spinning the camera around it, and therefore paying a Dev to keep TrackIR updated with each patch when he could be put to better use resolving bugs and adding new content... is pointless. Especially considering there's probably only a small handful of people who use it.
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Aya Sin
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Posted - 2009.11.15 19:35:00 -
[52]
My guess would be that they have their trackIR support spread throughout the entire client and the code is getting really messy.
Considering that their way of going back to the login screen is to terminate the client (hopefully) faster than it segfaults and then restart it, I'd say it's probably a good idea to do some cleanup. Or some more of it....
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.11.15 21:04:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 15/11/2009 21:04:50
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 15/11/2009 21:04:10
It is complete awesome sauce for anyone in a milsim game or driving game. Situational awareness goes up by a very important chunk.
Head movement scaling is usually setup with a smallish deadzone combined with relatively small movement around the deadzone with increased relative movement the further you move your head.
You may say its expensive but the freeware versions requires elbow grease and a soldering iron to get a set as polished as Trackir5 is now. The software kit in the current revision leads Freetrack or any of the other freeware implementations by a long yard.
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.15 22:08:00 -
[54]
Using TrackIR the view turns when you look left or right, but it turns back when you look center again, in other words you can't spin your ship with it, so it's useless.
;)
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.11.15 22:49:00 -
[55]
Hang on, EVE has had TrackIR support for quite some time now right? It hardly presents any unfair advantage, it merely makes the visuals a little more immersive. So why remove this feature if its already implemented?
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.11.16 20:11:00 -
[56]
As far as I'm aware, you have to pay an annual licensing fee to use the TrackIR API within your program if your program is a subscription based 'service'.
In other words, it may well be costing CCP money every year to renew their TrackIR Commercial API license, besides having to pay developers to 'work around the thorny bush' that is the API code thrown inbetween the client code.
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