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Isabellle	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:14:00 - [1]
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:00:00 - [2] Originally by: Isabellle Yes it is fun to blow people up
SlayerOfArgus Gallente The Industrial Federation	Posted - 2009.11.11 14:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Isabellle Edited by: Isabellle on 11/11/2009 13:53:20 I'm relatively new to the whole EVE thing, In fact I'm relatively new to video games in general. In fact I don't own a play-station or an xbox, But i do have an antique ivory chess set and a dusty Atari in my closet. Ive been playing the game for about a month and find the capitalist market system and free for all attitude of the game developers absolutely ingenious. The ability to go down so many roads in the game is great weather it be a pirate blowing ships up and ransoming the lives of people on board or an industrial mega miner. However what i find most fascinating is the general breakdown in morals and ethics, I'm not talking about the pirates and the players that choose a life of crime for there character, that is part of the game and a fun part! Why have so many players essentially taken the pirate role a step further and become straight up terrorist befuddles me, blowing up a noobs ore can in the hopes that the newbie will attack their tech 2 frigate with his/her newbie mining frigate seems childish at best and downright cowardly. Apparhently some huge alliances actually promote and support this behavior. I understand the idea of practice makes perfect but how much practice are you getting by attacking someone you know you can destroy in three volleys of fire. Maybe I'm missing the point, or perhaps my ethics and morals are just such that i cant wrap my head around this behavior. Yes it is fun to blow people up and fight one on one. I for one feel it is more rewarding fighting for a cause, or at the least fighting for some material gain. I would hope/assume the greater EVE community is on the same page as me and doesn't partake in these activities. I KNOW IT IS JUST A GAME, but It is still interesting from a sociological perspective to see so many people/players choose to make such illogical choices such as podding people and destroying wealth for no gain just in the name of fun. This is the same kind of thinking behind sparypainting someones car or running a key down the side of someones car as you pass by on the sidewalk. I suppose i should be glad more people exorcise this inner idiot on a game as opposed to real life. (I hope) At any rate I'm glad I found EVE and hope to continue having a great time playing the game, if ever I get the skills to wipe an astroid belt with these terrorist i will do it, and hope that more people feel the same way. You kinda hit it on the head. People need this sort of outlet sometimes. Sometimes they need to just engage in nonsensical behavior for their own sanity. And this game is rather perfect for that seeing as they can pretty much do whatever the heck they want. It's better that a person is a pirate and screwing around in the game than actually performing deviant actions in real life. Then again there are people as well who just like to be a douchebag.
Captain Tardbar State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Isabellle However what i find most fascinating is the general breakdown in morals and ethics, I'm not talking about the pirates and the players that choose a life of crime for there character, that is part of the game and a fun part! EVE Online is basically Lord of the Flies with space ships.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Isabellle Why have so many players essentially taken the pirate role a step further and become straight up terrorist befuddles me, You just shot your credibility in the head. I stopped reading at that sentence. Better luck next time. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Isabellle interesting from a sociological perspective to see so many people/players choose to make such illogical choices such as podding people and destroying wealth for no gain just in the name of fun. It happens every day in life, there are incredibly stupid, illogical, overly emotional and exasperating people EVERYWHERE! In all walks of life, in all classes, in all religions all ages, sex's, races and in every society and community that is human. Hardly surprising that they are also found in online communities made of the same humans. In fact, it could be argued that such activities which you* perceive as "illogical" are in themselves the foundations upon which this community grows. *since you yourself are new to eve.
dtyk	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Isabellle interesting from a sociological perspective to see so many people/players choose to make such illogical choices such as podding people and destroying wealth for no gain just in the name of fun. The same reason as why anyone is spending money in something like a game for no monetary gain.
Serpents smile	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:54:00 - [8] You forget that people do certain things just because they can. That is the only ratification they will ever need. You me, flying through low sec, seeing that Ity 3 there, we probably just move on, others just hit the breaks lock target and omgwtfbbq the Ity 3. /me shrugs, that is EVE. That's why I like it so much.
Isabellle	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Originally by: Isabellle Why have so many players essentially taken the pirate role a step further and become straight up terrorist befuddles me, You just shot your credibility in the head. I stopped reading at that sentence. Better luck next time. Shot my credibility in the head? The only credibility I'm bringing to the table is as an observer. If you disagree with the term "terrorist" for these actions perhaps a gander in the depths of a dictionary will enlighten you to the fact that these actions are quite fitting for the definition.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 15:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Isabellle interesting from a sociological perspective to see so many people/players choose to make such illogical choices such as podding people and destroying wealth for no gain just in the name of fun. You are my enimy, I will krush you. The bigger concern is how affected by podding some people are. The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments

Isabellle	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:04:00 - [11] Everyone is making valid points about doing these things because they can, I'm just pointing out that it happens and it is interesting, the comment about Eve being the equivalent to Lord of the Flies is apropos, When most people read that book they like to think they are more in line with Ralph and not Jack. However interestingly it would seem a lot of people are less evolved beyond Jack and let there bloodlust consume them. I'm not complaining, just commenting on this becuase i find it interesting if not a little sad.
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Isabellle just commenting on this becuase i find it interesting if not a little sad. Again, not unusual. Go to any public place and sights of sadness is everywhere. Read the news, open your eyes, talk to people, get a job in a public service... its everywhere. And there are most probably aspects of your own life which people identify as being 'sad'
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Isabellle Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Originally by: Isabellle Why have so many players essentially taken the pirate role a step further and become straight up terrorist befuddles me, You just shot your credibility in the head. I stopped reading at that sentence. Better luck next time. Shot my credibility in the head? Boom, headshot. Like that. Originally by: Isabellle The only credibility I'm bringing to the table is as an observer. The mere act of observation conveys zero credibility. Originally by: Isabellle If you disagree with the term "terrorist" for these actions perhaps a gander in the depths of a dictionary will enlighten you to the fact that these actions are quite fitting for the definition. Have you actually read any definition of the word? Clearly not. To paraphrase, a terrorist is one who uses fear to serve a purpose toward their end goals. People in EVE are sociopaths at worst, not terrorists. Instilling fear in their victims accomplishes nothing but to rob them of the chance to extract more grief/enjoyment from them. Which is precisely the opposite of what they want. You're absolutely correct in noticing the utterly predictable, psychopathic/sociopathic behavior of the typical EVE player, but you're completely ****ed for calling it terrorism, and pointing out the obvious is not interesting. More, the fact that you used a term that's currently way overplayed and overused completely destroys your credibility as a poster, because you clearly don't even understand the meaning of the word you're using. You're simply using it for the pathos effect. Which not only demonstrates that you don't understand the word, but that you're willing to abuse it further it for the sake of your own ego, which says even more about you. So, consider your bozo bit flipped. Further, you pseudo intellectual loquaciousness (see, I can do it too) does nothing positive for your credibility. In fact it only serves to highlight the fact that you're an idiot pretending to have some insightful new thing to say about eve players which most of us already understand to the point that it's not even interesting, while also misusing a word. Sorry, I know, it's complicated to understand, but I tried to break it down for you in terms you'll pretend to understand. HTH - Support DISBANDING** the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:48:00 - [14] Because of the way the game is it tends to attract a*holes and sufferers of Schadenfreude. They do it because the "tears" of others gives them their high. Eve is a great game. But it's even a greater tool for bullies to use. No real life consequences for being a jerk and you get to negatively influence other to your heart's content. In a way and because Eve is a "sandbox" game you'll find more of these types here than in any other game.
Winters Chill Amarr Shadow Legion.	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 You're absolutely correct in noticing the utterly predictable, psychopathic/sociopathic behavior of the typical EVE player, but you're completely ******ed for calling it terrorism, and pointing out the obvious is not interesting. More, the fact that you used a term that's currently way overplayed and overused completely destroys your credibility as a poster, because you clearly don't even understand the meaning of the word you're using. You're simply using it for the pathos effect. Which not only demonstrates that you don't understand the word, but that you're willing to abuse it further it for the sake of your own ego, which says even more about you. So, consider your bozo bit flipped. Further, you pseudo intellectual loquaciousness (see, I can do it too) does nothing positive for your credibility. In fact it only serves to highlight the fact that you're an idiot pretending to have some insightful new thing to say about eve players which most of us already understand to the point that it's not even interesting, while also misusing a word. Sorry, I know, it's complicated to understand, but I tried to break it down for you in terms you'll pretend to understand. Such a brutal well thought out attack for a newb simply stating their opinion. Don't you have anything better to do, other than troll newbies?
Redshirt I	Posted - 2009.11.11 20:41:00 - [16] Its the nature of humans to be evil when they can get away with it. You place us in an environment with no consequneces , give us a weapon of sorts, and tell us it's a "sandbox", 99% of people will enact evil actions. This does not mean those people are really evil, they are just balancing out their otherwise boring life of forced lawful actions. Add in the fact that you can have alts only increases the ability to be "evil" This game, like no other, is heavily lopsided towards rewarding evil activities and because of this probably one of the toughest MMO's I can imagine. This is a draw for the game, and definately the reason the majority of pirates return to playing the game month after month. If this was like most MMO's with a flip-flopped alignment, I don't think it would be all that popular, I mean would anyone want to be here if you were only rewarded for helping other players? Personally I just want a little more realism with the highsec areas. There is no way any society would allow "evil" people to openly rome around the supposed safe areas. If I can't freely enter low/null sec without being harrased then "pirates" should be equally harrased for entering highsec regions. In highsec areas, it should not matter that you have not attacked anyone, if the game mechanics judge you as being "evil" then concord should treat you as wanted criminals. This will never happen though cause the evil people of this type of game are the bread and butter for CCP and when they turn into carebears complaining about how "unfair" the game is CCP has no choice but to sell their soul to the devil. Of course this game has its share of "good" people but the majority of them have "evil" alts and the rewards for being good are nothing compared to its opposite.
SomebodyKickedMyDog	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:30:00 - [17] Originally by: Winters Chill Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 You're absolutely correct in noticing the utterly predictable, psychopathic/sociopathic behavior of the typical EVE player, but you're completely ******ed for calling it terrorism, and pointing out the obvious is not interesting. More, the fact that you used a term that's currently way overplayed and overused completely destroys your credibility as a poster, because you clearly don't even understand the meaning of the word you're using. You're simply using it for the pathos effect. Which not only demonstrates that you don't understand the word, but that you're willing to abuse it further it for the sake of your own ego, which says even more about you. So, consider your bozo bit flipped. Further, you pseudo intellectual loquaciousness (see, I can do it too) does nothing positive for your credibility. In fact it only serves to highlight the fact that you're an idiot pretending to have some insightful new thing to say about eve players which most of us already understand to the point that it's not even interesting, while also misusing a word. Sorry, I know, it's complicated to understand, but I tried to break it down for you in terms you'll pretend to understand. Such a brutal well thought out attack for a newb simply stating their opinion. Don't you have anything better to do, other than troll newbies? "don't report your observations and express your opinion or you'll lose all credibility." lol /facepalm
Nekopyat	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Redshirt I Its the nature of humans to be evil when they can get away with it. Not sure I would agree with 'evil'. At a low level it is human nature to want to be better then others. People with higher status tend to get better breeding partners and thus their genes are more likely to be passed on along with other high quality genes. Status is determined by being relative to other people. There are generally two ways to do this, improve your own resources, or exert power over others by reducing their resources. In an on-line environment, this rather disembodied drive can result in trolling or griefing. It feels good to the troll/griefer because they have just knocked someone else down, thus they feel (even if no one else cares) that their own status has increased.
Burnharder	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:37:00 - [19] A game that allows you to behave like a sociopath will, on the whole, be attractive to those who are sociopaths. Therefore, don't be surprised if there is a little more ass-hattery in Eve than elsewhere. There's probably a slightly greater proportion of sociopaths here than elsewhere .
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:07:00 - [20] Confirming that all can flippers and podders are terrorists and sociopaths. Jesus Christ, I didn't know there were so many Psychology 101 dropouts playing EVE. Does the above poster even know what sociopath or dsm means? Here's a pr0tip, shooting other people in a game in which shooting other people's imaginary spaceships is ENCOURAGED and the whole point of the game is not sociopathic or terrorist like. Also keep the delusional RL -> EVE analogies coming, those are a great way to show how hilariously misguided you are. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.

Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:11:00 - [21] Appreciate your thoughts. As a low-sec pirate, here's my take on your thoughts. Not flaming. Just trying to be constructive. Originally by: Isabellle what i find most fascinating is the general breakdown in morals and ethics You have a chess set. Are there any morals or ethics to playing chess? You have rules. You play by them and try to win and have fun. EVE has the EULA (rules). You play by it and try to win (as you define it) and have fun. Originally by: Isabellle terrorist (OK. That's a tiny flame but you really had it coming here.) Originally by: Isabellle I for one feel it is more rewarding fighting for a cause, or at the least fighting for some material gain. It's a sandbox. There's no "cause" except to have fun. There's no "material gain" to be had. It's all just pixels owned by CCP. Originally by: Isabellle I would hope/assume the greater EVE community is on the same page as me and doesn't partake in these activities. You might possibly be making a wrong assumption here. Haven't seen an EVE-wide poll on the matter, however, many of the key founders of the game were PvPer/Gankers in UO. Originally by: Isabellle This is the same kind of thinking behind sparypainting someones car or running a key down the side of someones car as you pass by on the sidewalk. No. It's not. You mentioned chess. If you manage to "work" really hard to promote a pawn to a queen but you weren't paying enough attention and I capture your new Queen with my Rook. Is that the same as egging your house? Originally by: Isabellle I suppose i should be glad more people exorcise this inner idiot on a game as opposed to real life. If they are having fun, no matter how they play the game within the EULA, they are not idiots. They are wise users of their subscription fee and their recreational time. Originally by: Isabellle I KNOW IT IS JUST A GAME, but It is still interesting from a sociological perspective When people have to say "I KNOW IT IS JUST A GAME" than you can be sure the odds are that they probably don't. No offense. What's interesting, from a psychological perspective, is that so many otherwise intelligent and well educated individuals can take a shellacking in virtually any other type of competitive recreational game and maintain a healthy perspective. BUT give them an avatar and some virtual "property" and, when they lose, there's all this incredible butthurt that has to be salved by trying to characterize the "winner" of the game as emotionally/morally/ethically bankrupt. Go figure. Originally by: Isabellle At any rate I'm glad I found EVE and hope to continue having a great time playing the game Glad you found the game as well and hope you continue to enjoy it. It'll be easier if you decide to leave any self-righteous moral outrage about how others try to enjoy this game at the log-in screen. Good luck.
Burnharder	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Vaal Erit Confirming that all can flippers and podders are terrorists and sociopaths. Jesus Christ, I didn't know there were so many Psychology 101 dropouts playing EVE. Does the above poster even know what sociopath or dsm means? Here's a pr0tip, shooting other people in a game in which shooting other people's imaginary spaceships is ENCOURAGED and the whole point of the game is not sociopathic or terrorist like. Also keep the delusional RL -> EVE analogies coming, those are a great way to show how hilariously misguided you are. .... yes, although you didn't back up what you said with any kind of argument, just a lot of ad-hom. I have Psychology A-level and 1/2 my degree was Psychology, but I didn't study the psychology of MMO's, although some others have more recently. My intuition tells me that can flipping n00bs is the kind of thing you'd find fun if you just wanted to be an ass. I mean otherwise, what's the point? Is that sociopathic behavior? I think so. If you don't, you have to explain how it's possible to suspend your real-life personality traits when you go online. Sure you may be acting out a fantasy to be bad, but then that's more suppressing a trait in the real-world and letting it go online, than it being just some kind of "make believe" role play. Most people other than hardcore role-players bring something of themselves into the virtual worlds they play in. I think your actions inside that virtual world are somewhat indicative, don't you?
Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:28:00 - [23] Originally by: Burnharder Is that sociopathic behavior? As a psychology student you should have access to the DSM-IV if you don't already own a copy. Go look up the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder and then why don't you tell us how blowing up internet spaceships in a game about blowing up internet spaceships fits the criteria. Good luck with that.
Burnharder	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Originally by: Burnharder Is that sociopathic behavior? As a psychology student you should have access to the DSM-IV if you don't already own a copy. Go look up the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder and then why don't you tell us how blowing up internet spaceships in a game about blowing up internet spaceships fits the criteria. Good luck with that. I pretty much could have guessed that someone would reduce the argument to an absurdity. This isn't about blowing up internet spaceships in general, it's about baiting n00bs. There's a subtle difference that I think you're missing here.
D3F4ULT Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Have you actually read any definition of the word? Clearly not. To paraphrase, a terrorist is one who uses fear to serve a purpose toward their end goals. People in EVE are sociopaths at worst, not terrorists. Instilling fear in their victims accomplishes nothing but to rob them of the chance to extract more grief/enjoyment from them. Which is precisely the opposite of what they want. You're absolutely correct in noticing the utterly predictable, psychopathic/sociopathic behavior of the typical EVE player, but you're completely ******ed for calling it terrorism, and pointing out the obvious is not interesting. More, the fact that you used a term that's currently way overplayed and overused completely destroys your credibility as a poster, because you clearly don't even understand the meaning of the word you're using. You're simply using it for the pathos effect. Which not only demonstrates that you don't understand the word, but that you're willing to abuse it further it for the sake of your own ego, which says even more about you. So, consider your bozo bit flipped. Further, you pseudo intellectual loquaciousness (see, I can do it too) does nothing positive for your credibility. In fact it only serves to highlight the fact that you're an idiot pretending to have some insightful new thing to say about eve players which most of us already understand to the point that it's not even interesting, while also misusing a word. Sorry, I know, it's complicated to understand, but I tried to break it down for you in terms you'll pretend to understand. HTH you be trollin' and hatin' catchin' him writin' dirty.
Burnharder	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:47:00 - [26] Well in any case, what my nephew said about this game after trying it for a few nano-seconds: (1) it's too complex/hard (2) you spend a lot of time just flying about (3) I'm going to go play L4D.
Ard UnjiiGo The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:59:00 - [27] Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 11/11/2009 23:01:28 Originally by: Burnharder Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo Originally by: Burnharder Is that sociopathic behavior? As a psychology student you should have access to the DSM-IV if you don't already own a copy. Go look up the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder and then why don't you tell us how blowing up internet spaceships in a game about blowing up internet spaceships fits the criteria. Good luck with that. I pretty much could have guessed that someone would reduce the argument to an absurdity. This isn't about blowing up internet spaceships in general, it's about baiting n00bs. There's a subtle difference that I think you're missing here. You pointed out that Vaal was supporting part of his arguments with ad hominem attacks. You make a counter argument based on "intuition". I provide you the opening to base your argument on more than "intuition" and you side-step. Want to try again? When my father taught me chess he was a masterful player well-versed in the rules, strategies and tactics. I was a kid. My father never once threw a game to me (thank goodness or I would be an even more terrible chess player). Was my father a sociopathic noob griefer?
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.11 23:42:00 - [28] In an open PVP model MMO like EVE there'll be forever a clash between the "w00t pewpew" crew and the "YOU SUNK MY BATTLESHIP!" crowd. In most MMO's the "happyhappy" players 'win' because they outnumber the "ololol" folks making the DEV's decision a monetary one. In EVE, being proud of it's political incorrectness, it's the player driven economy that forces the "ye olde English" peeps to have to deal with the "rofl, r@pe him" fukcs as they need eachother. It's what makes it fun. ----------- ADM-I
gambrinous	Posted - 2009.11.12 00:51:00 - [29] Originally by: Isabellle words to the effect she doesn't understand a particular behaviour Why do you mine? I mean I get needing ISK, but mowing lawns for pocket money to buy ISK would be more fun. Why do ppl row across the ocean Why do ppl run marathons Why do ppl climb up mountains Why do ppl walk competitively <---------srs wtf is up with that People do stuff, get over it :)
Aralieus Amarr Traumark Logistics	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:21:00 - [30] Edited by: Aralieus on 12/11/2009 01:23:49 Hey op check this vid out. PPL do things like you were describing cuase other ppl get so **ed about it honestly. I wouldnt go as far and say ppl are socially screwed up, just imature sometimes. I have blew up a couple carebears and laughed about it in local. Does that make me a d-bag, maybe, tbh I dont give a flying ck what you think about me. To the ones I did blow and took it like a man, I compensated them for thier loses 2 times over and showed them what they did wrong and how to avoid it in the future just because they didnt cry and whine about it. Welcome to the sandbox brotha Fortune Favors the Bold!!



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