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Razvan Stefan
EVE Research Nulla Clementia
1
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
I did not found this proposal here. Hope i didn't duplicate it.
General idea is being able to target and attack modules in active PVP.
Depending on the type of ship the pilots are flying it will be cool to target for example:
- engine / thrusters - weapons - warp drive - hull - cargo holds (destroy ammo/modules or part of it) -etc
Depending on what the opponent destroys on your ship you get penalties such as for ex:
- engine damaged / destroyed = -20% - 60% / 100% velocity (depending on damage the module received) - weapons damaged / destroyed = - to damage output / accuracy
..and so on.
Destroying on particular module on the ship will remove hull HP equal to the value of that module in HP. Of course the difficulty in hitting the modules should be much higher on important modules and lower in others.
I know this is a balancing and technical nightmare since this will change the game at it's core but i thought it worth mentioning just for the "Vision for the future" spirit :). And since I saw the demo with Tessellation technology it may well be possible to implement such a thing.
Hope this sparks your imagination :) |
Ja'thaal Deathbringer
Switchblade Incorporated
8
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's a good idea, in theory, but it would be a pain to code. But +1 for the concept regardless. I've oft' wondered if this could be possible. |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
2
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
this was awesome in that space shooter.. independence day 2. was so fun. think i'm gonna try to find it and play it a bit, now that i've been reminded of it |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
12
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
similar but easier to code; t2 ammo that has a heat damage component to it.
a random enemy module takes x heat damage, or x heat damage distributed randomly between the modules, at the cost of a bit of actual weapon damage. if you're playing a game of cat and mouse with some one and the fight is lasting a long time having this type of ammo could be the difference of winning and losing if the heat damage adds up enough to remove a repair mod or a hardener or a prop mod from the fight. |
Razvan Stefan
EVE Research Nulla Clementia
1
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
@Ja'thaal Deathbringer thanks for the Like
@Yes it was implemeted in a game called Nexus the Jupiter incident. Quite fun, kind of old. You could try that one too is a cool game. |
Razvan Stefan
EVE Research Nulla Clementia
1
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:similar but easier to code; t2 ammo that has a heat damage component to it.
a random enemy module takes x heat damage, or x heat damage distributed randomly between the modules, at the cost of a bit of actual weapon damage. if you're playing a game of cat and mouse with some one and the fight is lasting a long time having this type of ammo could be the difference of winning and losing if the heat damage adds up enough to remove a repair mod or a hardener or a prop mod from the fight.
In a frigate battle that ends fast you will not have a BIG advantage .. but destroying the weapons on a titan cold be a win situation in a battle.. Still.. it cold be implemeted in such a way that just fireing upon an enemy will sometimes trigger a module damage or distruction depending on the ammount of damage output without targeting a particular module first.
But still thinking tactically cold be an advantage for ex blowing the engine of a Trasher before it escapes and you will not see him again :P
Lots can be done.. implementing this can change EVE a lot.. making it either more fun .. somewhat more complex...or... it may as well rip the essence of the game all together and this is a risc :)) |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1532
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Posted - 2012.06.14 16:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
This topic is gonna turn into another "My rifter should be immune and capitals should get nerfed" thread. |
Garviel Tarrant
Aces -N- Eights Excuses.
7
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Posted - 2012.06.14 16:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cool idea but with the way things are set up now, unfeasible both code and gameplay wise. |
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
440
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Posted - 2012.06.14 17:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
I will LMAO if it's just a laser pointer duct taped to the hull. |
Cari Cullejen
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc. Can't Undock. Won't Undock
8
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well if something like this is implemented, make it so you at least have to get them into Hull before you can actually do any specific damage to the modules.
In love with CCP Sunset,-á+ëg velti ++v+¡ hvernig ++a+¦ er +í-á+ìslandi |
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Razvan Stefan
EVE Research Nulla Clementia
1
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Posted - 2012.06.15 09:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:This topic is gonna turn into another "My rifter should be immune and capitals should get nerfed" thread.
I don't quite get where you got that idea from ..probably you read from another thread.
The way PVP works right now is fine.. but is too simple. I will not try turning this thread in a "How PVP is done" but PVP right now is more like politics not shooting / spaceship tactics.
You go into battle 10 corporations for 3 alliances 50 players some from NPC corp in x number of fleets and they meet up with some other fleet/s (enemy)... they start wondering ..hey...who will shoot first .. who is in war with us.. who will we attack .. and so on .. and after that u pick a target and start shooting..you try to keep your optimal range and modules active and in big lines that's it..you hope that u have a good tank or a good logistic team. Nothing determines nothing just the value of the equipment and the optimal range.
This applies in frigate / cruisers / bc / bs / supercaps etc. This is not about my rifter should be able to take on a titan.. is just to make the game more "realistic" (since is Sci-Fi this word is kind of funny). Is kind of odd to have 2% HP in a ship. and fly with same speed fire the same and so on. |
jharn ru
Unintended Consequences
0
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Posted - 2012.07.18 13:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
this targeting of engines and weapons sounds good it would give a layer of ship to ship combat to eve and combat blob warfare and alpha strikes, if a whole fleet mans up one on one and say fires on there weapons system the target fleets over all damage out put would be lower with each volly of ships to ship strike . this would bring in the fact of disabled ships need to warp out to get repaired and the concept of off grid triage support as multiple damaged and disable ships would be hard to rep on grid. also shooting a target engines out would stop them warping and or slow them to be caught also allow battle ships and slow armored blaster boats an option in combat.
the thing is i like the concept but it needs a lot of thought and testing |
Goti fase
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.07.18 13:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Anyone remember Nexus - The Jupiter Incident?
This idea sounds a lot like that game and it was brilliant, I still go back to it every so often.
+1 from me |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
New Eden Asteroid Preservation Society
1949
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Posted - 2012.07.18 13:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
The more I think about it, the less I expect it to impact the outcome of a fight.
If you allow players to directly damage modules, then you're indirectly applying a massive nerf to active tanks. Such a change would have to come with the ability to repair modules while in combat, and for logi to repair them as well. This means simply that you'll have to tank your modules as well as your ship. It will add a layer of needless complexity, as in the end the fights are still going to come down to overwhelming someone's ability to tank until they are removed from the fight. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.07.18 17:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Subsystem damage is a good feature, but actual sub-targeting I think is a bit of a boring way to do it. There are already 4 damage types and 3 health bars, why not use those to determine what modules and subsystems can be damaged and effects inflicted? For example, EMP damage might have a chance to hurt electronics modules, scan resolution, sensor strength and so forth. Thermal damage could affect the capacitor, explosive damage hurts weapons and remote modules, kinetic hurts internally active modules etc
Okay so It's obviously never going to happen but it's a cool idea |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
124
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Posted - 2012.07.18 21:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
It would certainly put a boost in the market for nano paste, I don't think any modules should be damaged though from incoming fire until both shields and armor are gone through and frankly the fights over with by that point anyway unless you are one of those rare hull tankers |
Razvan Stefan
EVE Research Nulla Clementia
2
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Posted - 2012.07.20 15:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:The more I think about it, the less I expect it to impact the outcome of a fight.
If you allow players to directly damage modules, then you're indirectly applying a massive nerf to active tanks. Such a change would have to come with the ability to repair modules while in combat, and for logi to repair them as well. This means simply that you'll have to tank your modules as well as your ship. It will add a layer of needless complexity, as in the end the fights are still going to come down to overwhelming someone's ability to tank until they are removed from the fight.
Zyress wrote:It would certainly put a boost in the market for nano paste, I don't think any modules should be damaged though from incoming fire until both shields and armor are gone through and frankly the fights over with by that point anyway unless you are one of those rare hull tankers
@FloppieTheBanjoClown No this is not about tanking all the modules you should not control that. active tanks remain the same.
.. but still I would only modify Shield management 5 that only stops 85-90% of the incoming damage.. and after the shield is gone you can target modules.. armor is not like a layer that will have to be rubbed off before you can hit the hull (take real tanks for ex.) .. so now this will lad some realism to the picture.. i find it funny to hit the armor and not affect anything .. so if game mechanics is not allowing to hit the hull at least some modules to be affected.
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Marcus Ichiro
Kif Korp
67
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Posted - 2012.07.20 15:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Razvan Stefan wrote:and after the shield is gone you can target modules
That would completely kill armour tanking. |
Manar Detri
22
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Posted - 2012.07.21 02:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'll say it bluntly, structure hp is structure hp. It is hp the hull has. You will never be able to bypass shields and armor. Period. Shields and armors are put on a ship for a purpose, guess what it is? On the sunny side of life, at some point in time ccp might fiddle around with the idea of ammo having a heat component, but even with this idea, it'd open a can of problems.
Don't fix what isn't broken. |
Razvan Stefan
EVE Research Nulla Clementia
2
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Posted - 2012.07.21 07:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Marcus Ichiro wrote:Razvan Stefan wrote:and after the shield is gone you can target modules That would completely kill armour tanking.
Yes true.. but it can be fixed with smth like "Target shield generator" and it will not unbalance the various ways of tanking.
This needs to be greatly refined i can't think of a complete refined way to implement this ..because of course I do not know 100% how the game mechanics works and this is not even the biggest problem... this can be full of exploits if implemented without rigorous testing and thought but could change the game and add it a fresh spin...
...but hey let us discuss this is the way good ideas are born..
I quit playing eve because is getting awfully boring in space battles and space battle is kind of the idea in a game with spaceships.
There are no tactical maps / tactical features in the game, battle is boring.. you fit your ship go to battle find an enemy, target the enemy set orbiting distance activate guns and overheat and that's it... hope you don't miss and u have more skills / damage or better fit than the opponent (i don't want to sound blunt there is still fun in eve PVP-ing but it cold be way better)
Manar Detri wrote:I'll say it bluntly, structure hp is structure hp. It is hp the hull has. You will never be able to bypass shields and armor. Period. Shields and armors are put on a ship for a purpose, guess what it is? On the sunny side of life, at some point in time ccp might fiddle around with the idea of ammo having a heat component, but even with this idea, it'd open a can of problems.
Don't fix what isn't broken.
man .. you sound like a novice sysadmin.. "that's the way it works, don't have any idea how ..but it works so just to be safe i don't mess with it" NO this is not the way ... the Inquisition was like this ... DO NOT THINK DO WHAT WE TELL YOU... bla bla... just because you are too scared by change the game should not evolve... maybe not my idea... but countless others. people imagine things .. that's why we have smarter phones than most of people on the planet...
think about it... rules are made to be broken |
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Lhiara Longrifle
Les Mineurs Galactiques
0
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Posted - 2012.07.22 00:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
i like this ideal and i think of something more about this type of strategic shooting
1) Range should also be factor in all this ( the optimal range shouldonly factor how much damage a unit take) but this type of strategic shooting should have a % values pending on the distance they are apart for exemple those at extreeme range of 150+km should have ( taking also into acount the velocity of the target) a 1-5% chance of hitting module compare to hitting the ship in general, and as the range between the 2 shorthen it increase the chance of hiting what we want to. The same can also be true if the ship are knife fight range get a better chance of hitting the module.
2) ship size/module size could also be a factor in the biger the module the easier it is to hit it.
3) external module/sys like (turret launcher engin) would be easier to hit then internal module/sys (Electronic shield emiter armor repair)
4) Repairing those modules would be equal as would either be nano paste or a new module a med slot remote nanite injector ( logistic module only ) and need to be directly apply to the damaged module in question using also the nano paste as a charge base unit ( something like that ) |
PhantomTrojan
Dark Circle Enforcement Templis Dragonaors
5
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Posted - 2012.07.22 03:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
theres a problem with your idea and it is that you cant hit a ship subsystem without taking down at least its shields, because you cant shoot trough shields but this would nerf armor or would be pointless if implemented in hull besides nerfing hull tank that manly hard already. I prefer the heat damaging ammo or a especific module that does damage in shield to shield mods, when you hit armor damages armor mods and random engineering modules, the amount of damage should be proportional to the size of the ship so that you cant 1 hit the invul of a carrier or titan. Also they should add a counter module that passively and/or actively cools the ship. |
Razvan Stefan
EVE Research Nulla Clementia
3
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Posted - 2012.07.26 13:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
PhantomTrojan wrote:theres a problem with your idea and it is that you cant hit a ship subsystem without taking down at least its shields, because you cant shoot trough shields but this would nerf armor or would be pointless if implemented in hull besides nerfing hull tank that manly hard already. I prefer the heat damaging ammo or a especific module that does damage in shield to shield mods, when you hit armor damages armor mods and random engineering modules, the amount of damage should be proportional to the size of the ship so that you cant 1 hit the invul of a carrier or titan. Also they should add a counter module that passively and/or actively cools the ship.
Already gone through this here
Shield and armor should not be impenetrable because in reality nothing is. So it could be a "chance to hit %" depending on your "aiming" related skills (Surgical Strike, Gunnery bla bla) and other relevant skills. In order not to kill the active / passive tanking the tanking skills should not be involved in this. Only the Tactical Shield Manipulation V should be tampered a with a little and not give 100% penetration protection.
This cold happen.. is not something not achievable. there are endless things that cold think of that are easy to do and can improve game-play for EVE.
// Razvan |
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