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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8033
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Posted - 2012.06.18 18:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:if the skiff is the tank miner, mack the solo/lazy miner and the hulk the fleet miner, it needs to be BETTER than the covetor! GǪand it will be. Large hold = less frantic shuffling of ore. Better resists and base HP = better survivability (in particular, better ability to make use of remote reps). More fitting options = even better survivability and/or more options to support the gang.
It will be like any other decision to go T2 instead of T1: you will do things better, but as always in EVE, you will have to pay a premium (in skills and ISK) for that added ability.
The only problem I can see with this mining buff is that some people seem to be incredibly locked into the GÇ£hulk = best; must use hulkGÇ¥ mindset, and that will adamantly refuse to use other ships in the class that are far better suited for their purposes (and that this refusal will spawn a new generation of uninformed GÇ£buff hulkGÇ¥ threads).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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kyrv
hirr
Against ALL Authorities
9
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Posted - 2012.06.19 17:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
We all mine too much? feel obliged to make isk mining filling hours of our own time working like workhorses?
As an idea I would like to see, mining barge quotas! offered from a player from a gui to a separate marketing system which has a unit by unit limit.
Tied into a specific region is your bid range up to a maximum bid range of up to a region for raw ore and the ore is linked to a specific system I would like to see that. And once a quota is filled it resides in that specific system a trade route is opened at cost to another station which incurs a fixed cost from a new authority call it the Galactic Ore-commerce foundry from each race.
The above idea is to create what is perfect except with a twist.
The barges? they are more efficient mining most to a reputable source, and so create a nice even mix across empire of such valued resources reputation would be valid from hauling/mining missions and through mining to quota with standings!
An even dispatch of empire specific resources.. come back to the mega moguls which must obtain and compete for them, the market traders and venture capitalists which must even just simply transport the ore or refine at there own costs?
The market would inflate and mining duties would be less of a chore.
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Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
18
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Posted - 2012.06.20 11:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
in a day of mining i could buy a fitted hulk with the isk i make or i could buy 5 fitted covetors. havent lost a ship in a while but konck on wood... oh yeah i forgot to mention i mine in covetors so gankers bring it on lol I GOT 14 MORE ROFL. i do fear they may take out all 3 of my on grid covetors, which in the very rare event this happens would still be HALF the price of a single lost hulk. 
go ahead and try to argue that 15% yield is worth it, you're wrong. or you could lie and say you watch the game like a hawk and align and d-scan...right... yeah we all do that 
oh and if you do lose a hulk you are also playing into the "goonspiracy"TM and supporting their technetium market HAG is as good as over i guess but they still run the tech, and there will always be gankers. so don't ever complain about losing a hulk - AND THEN GO BUY A NEW ONE 
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Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence
Test Alliance Please Ignore
28
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Posted - 2012.06.20 12:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
Breezly Brewin wrote:in a day of mining i could buy a fitted hulk with the isk i make or i could buy 5 fitted covetors. havent lost a ship in a while but konck on wood... i do fear they may take out all 3 of my on grid covetors, which in the very rare event this happens would still be HALF the price of a single lost hulk. go ahead and try to argue that 15% yield is worth it, you're wrong. or you could lie and say you watch the game like a hawk and align and d-scan...right... yeah we all do that oh and if you do lose a hulk you are also playing into the "goonspiracy"TM and supporting their technetium market HAG is as good as over i guess but they still run the tech, and there will always be gankers. so don't ever complain about losing a hulk - AND THEN GO BUY A NEW ONE
i never lie, and i never watch the game like a hawk.
however, local is constantly on my screen [along with relevant intel channels], even while posting this my browser only takes up 60% of my screen and as soon as i catch local change i check if it's neutral. if it is, and they can scan me down, warp in, and tackle me before my hulk can align and warp to a safe, i'm not going to shed tears over my loss.
however i mine in the superduper safe 0.0 space, i will concede that in empire space where local is a nightmare to monitor and there pretty much are no intel channels, yeah a covetor might be a "better" option, however you're mining **** ore for **** isk/hour anyway so it doesn't matter. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
143
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Posted - 2012.06.20 13:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
The retriever is going to have a huge impact of all of this. If it remains at its current price point (and being that it is T1 and contains no tech I don't see why it would rise too sharply) ganking it may become too costly to be worth it. Will they be immune to ganks? Heck no, but when they are suicide ganked It will cost the ganker more in ship losses than it will the miner.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence
Test Alliance Please Ignore
28
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Posted - 2012.06.20 13:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:The retriever is going to have a huge impact of all of this. If it remains at its current price point (and being that it is T1 and contains no tech I don't see why it would rise too sharply) ganking it may become too costly to be worth it. Will they be immune to ganks? Heck no, but when they are suicide ganked It will cost the ganker more in ship losses than it will the miner.
or you could just, y'know, fly a procurer and not get ganked at all because it'll have a huge tank. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
143
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Procurer: Avoid being ganked at all
Retriever: Reduce ganks due to economics of taking down that much EHP before concord shows up.
The reason why I state the retriever as the star of this update, rather than the procurer, is that it maintains the superior mining yield over the procurer AND a jet can sized ore hold so it guards against jet can thieves.
Of course this is all just guesses. Until they release the exact EHP the new retriever can sport, we won't know if suicide ganking them will become unprofitable.
Of course, the goons could just increase the bounties on T1 barges in response to this, which would fix the economic aspect of this and make retrievers just as vulnerable.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence
Test Alliance Please Ignore
28
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:Procurer: Avoid being ganked at all
Retriever: Reduce ganks due to economics of taking down that much EHP before concord shows up.
The reason why I state the retriever as the star of this update, rather than the procurer, is that it maintains the superior mining yield over the procurer AND a jet can sized ore hold so it guards against jet can thieves.
Of course this is all just guesses. Until they release the exact EHP the new retriever can sport, we won't know if suicide ganking them will become unprofitable.
Of course, the goons could just increase the bounties on T1 barges in response to this, which would fix the economic aspect of this and make retrievers just as vulnerable.
i think the mack will have roughly the same tank as the hulk. i still think the mackinaw is going to be the bastard child of the exhumer family but i've already said that several times so i won't go over that again. |
kyrv
hirr
Against ALL Authorities
9
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Posted - 2012.06.21 09:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:Procurer: Avoid being ganked at all
Retriever: Reduce ganks due to economics of taking down that much EHP before concord shows up.
The reason why I state the retriever as the star of this update, rather than the procurer, is that it maintains the superior mining yield over the procurer AND a jet can sized ore hold so it guards against jet can thieves.
Of course this is all just guesses. Until they release the exact EHP the new retriever can sport, we won't know if suicide ganking them will become unprofitable.
Of course, the goons could just increase the bounties on T1 barges in response to this, which would fix the economic aspect of this and make retrievers just as vulnerable.
You know, I think this is only a quick fix.. mining people will always lose out for the hard work they deal, they need something back for there hard efforts I mean I'd say total re-skin to battleship size vessels would be worth that. If they look the same well.. you can see the point of the ore frigate. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2012.06.21 09:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:or you could just, y'know, fly a procurer and not get ganked at all because it'll have a huge tank.
Ever heard of Tornado or 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II? |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence
Test Alliance Please Ignore
29
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Posted - 2012.06.21 10:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Dave stark wrote:or you could just, y'know, fly a procurer and not get ganked at all because it'll have a huge tank. Ever heard of Tornado or 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II?
can that pop a battleship before it can align and warp? or before concord arrives? yes, i will be putting warp stabs on my skiff if the innate bonus is removed. let's face it, if you're flying a skiff and fitting for yield not tank you're going to be doing it wrong. or depending on how much hull it has, i might go with bulkheads/dcu in combination with a large shield buffer from the mid slots.
not to mention you're now wasting a 60m ship instead of a 1m ship.
simply flying a skiff tanked to hell will reduce the chance some one will try and gank you as not every one has the skills/spare cash to waste a tornado ganking miners. nothing is gankproof but it'll quite easily reduce the chance that some one will try. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2012.06.21 10:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
No, we are not talking about 300k EHP tank here. It's probably base BS tank (a bit over 40k).
That translates to 4 Tornadoes or 2 if they get two volleys out before Concord happens.
Don't have enough money? Go kill officer, loot and sell. |
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Tuskers
25
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Posted - 2012.06.21 10:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:No, we are not talking about 300k EHP tank here. It's probably base BS tank (a bit over 40k).
That translates to 4 Tornadoes or 2 if they get two volleys out before Concord happens.
Don't have enough money? Go kill officer, loot and sell.
I bought a dozen procurers a few days ago for not even 3mil each. When you gank them with 4 t2 fitted Nados I hardly think I care, it's more likely I'd laugh at you for wasting 400mil.
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Serina Tsukaya
Lonetrek Trade and Industries
Test Friends Please Ignore
15
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Posted - 2012.06.25 17:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Roles will most likely remain the same, unless ccp goes CCP again and Forgets what T2 stands for, Specialization. Lower prices for combat ships may be good for the combat pilot in the short term, but it wouldn't be in the long term, as prices would fluctuate as mining would be too unprofitable given the amount of bots that would appear, with sometimes it being profitable after a large bot ban, then it becoming unprofitable, and may lead ccp to just remove mining all together and give all things fixed prices, highly unlikely, but it's a possible doomsday scenario.
And, It'll most likely be the same as before: Suicide ganking a retriever isn't worth it now either. Remember they're looking for a statistically guaranteed profit. What are the odds of all your stuff dropping when you blow up?
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Kalli Brixzat
63
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Posted - 2012.06.25 18:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
I bought a dozen procurers a few days ago for not even 3mil each. When you gank them with 4 t2 fitted Nados I hardly think I care, it's more likely I'd laugh at you for wasting 400mil.
This is the key statement. Nobody is going to suicide gank these skiffs because the firepower you'd need to get it done would be worth way more than the take for popping that skiff.
Sue, toss 3 Tornado/Naga at it...you'll probably be able to pop is before CONCORDoken on your gang. Worth it? Nope. And unlike current Barges, you won't be able to get it done with 40-50M isk worth of frigates and destroyers. |
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