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Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1038
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'll keep this short;
Miners are the biggest users of jetcans, and use them to increase their cargo capacity beyond the ships original design
The new ships focus on differing cargo capacity depending on which ship you choose to fly
Keeping the current jetcan 'facility' in its current form sidesteps this slightly. The current capacity of jetcans is laughable, being the same no matter what the size of cargohold the originating ship had.
I propose that jetcans be 'shrinkwrapped' to whatever it is being jettisoned, so the size of the jetcan perfectly contains what was jettisoned with no 'extra capacity'.
(Note, i am not campaigning to remove jetcans, or even their use in mining, just the unexplanably large capacity of them)
feel free to discuss
(And no, this wasnt posted in Features and Ideas, because thats where good idea go to die) My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
354
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
What's the purpose for this idea? Why? |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1038
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Its something that needs changing in my opinion
How do you explain dropping a container out of your Ibis that can contain more than a vanilla Itty 5? My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:I'll keep this short;
Miners are the biggest users of jetcans, and use them to increase their cargo capacity beyond the ships original design
The new ships focus on differing cargo capacity depending on which ship you choose to fly
Keeping the current jetcan 'facility' in its current form sidesteps this slightly. The current capacity of jetcans is laughable, being the same no matter what the size of cargohold the originating ship had.
I propose that jetcans be 'shrinkwrapped' to whatever it is being jettisoned, so the size of the jetcan perfectly contains what was jettisoned with no 'extra capacity'.
(Note, i am not campaigning to remove jetcans, or even their use in mining, just the unexplanably large capacity of them)
feel free to discuss
(And no, this wasnt posted in Features and Ideas, because thats where good idea go to die)
I take it you have never mined in a covetor. Also, you can only jettison a new can so often. |

Erinn Sylvanus
NovaTech Universal Intersteller Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've always imagined it's not really a "can", but more like a big mylar bag. That's why you have tons of them - they take up no space when folded.
Being mylar-ish, they are fragile and get torn after a short while (2 hours). |

Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Its something that needs changing in my opinion
How do you explain dropping a container out of your Ibis that can contain more than a vanilla Itty 5?
They are inflatable. That is why they don't last very long, are so big, and you have an unlimited supply of them.
Edit: beaten to the punch. |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1038
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:I take it you have never mined in a covetor. Also, you can only jettison a new can so often. I have, but thats beside the point My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Savage Angel wrote:I take it you have never mined in a covetor. Also, you can only jettison a new can so often. I have, but thats beside the point
So how do you expect anyone to use that ship without a can? It can barely hold one cycle of the lasers. |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1038
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Savage Angel wrote:I take it you have never mined in a covetor. Also, you can only jettison a new can so often. I have, but thats beside the point So how do you expect anyone to use that ship without a can? It can barely hold one cycle of the lasers.
Maybe read the latest devblog and then work within the limitations of the ship given to you?
edit - also, re-read what i have set out in the original post. your jet can mining will remain if you so wish, just shrinkwrapped to the same size as what you jettison.(..and if this means i have to do the thinking for you, just jettison a can when you are nearly full) My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Savage Angel wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Savage Angel wrote:I take it you have never mined in a covetor. Also, you can only jettison a new can so often. I have, but thats beside the point So how do you expect anyone to use that ship without a can? It can barely hold one cycle of the lasers. Maybe read the latest devblog and then work within the limitations of the ship given to you?
It says they will not change the hold of the covetor/hulk, making the covetor completely worthless as a mining platform without a good transfer method.
Why would you give the biggest yield to the ships with the smallest holds if they have to either dock up constantly or wait for a new can? Would you allow unlimited cans in space? That would lag the servers out, and is something CCP has always tried to avoid and will take action against.
|

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1039
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:Why would you give the biggest yield to the ships with the smallest holds if they have to either dock up constantly or wait for a new can? Would you allow unlimited cans in space? That would lag the servers out, and is something CCP has always tried to avoid and will take action against.
The first step in understanding this is to totally forget about ship tiers. The changes will reflect a balance in the risk/reward in your ship choice
The max yield miners will have the smallest holds, this just means you have to work as a team in moving that ore to an Orca / station. TEAMWORK being the codeword here. Jettison your ore when your cargohold is enarly full and sombody can pick it up, and then repeat ad infinitum until you die from veldpsar exposure.
The retreiver/Mack is going to be the best ship to use if you are a solo operation, requirign less trips to store the ore somewhere.
The procurer/Skiff is going to be for the paranoid
edit
Savage Angel wrote:It says they will not change the hold of the covetor/hulk, making the covetor completely worthless as a mining platform without a good transfer method. The changes actually make the Covetor a BETTER choice, as it will be available from the instant you train Mining Barge. The perfect choice if you intend to mine in a fleet. My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1039
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Also your comment about having to wait for a new can...
Whats the timer on a new can, two mins?
Does it take less than 2 mins to fill up a Hulk or Covetors hold? (I really dont know this one) My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
|

CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1448

|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Moved from EVE General Discussion. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Degren
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1418
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
9/10 You don't know. |||| Space News |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7940
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:Why would you give the biggest yield to the ships with the smallest holds if they have to either dock up constantly or wait for a new can? Because the ship is meant to be used in groups. You will never have to wait for a new can, because the strip miner cycle time is longer than the can jettison delay (and since it takes two cycles to fill up the ore hold), and you already have a good transfer method called GÇ£the OrcaGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1039
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
skippermonkey wrote:(And no, this wasnt posted in Features and Ideas, because thats where good idea go to die)
CCP Phantom wrote:Moved from EVE General Discussion.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
no, the way i understand it is that the largest cargo bay amongst the exhumers will be the same as a jetcan, therefore the ship with max yield will have an ore bay smaller than a jetcan, along with the fact that i mine 2+ jetcans at a time means i'll still be jet can mining.
so let's not **** up jet cans please. |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1039
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:no, the way i understand it is that the largest cargo bay amongst the exhumers will be the same as a jetcan, therefore the ship with max yield will have an ore bay smaller than a jetcan, along with the fact that i mine 2+ jetcans at a time means i'll still be jet can mining.
so let's not **** up jet cans please.
jet cans ARE ****ed up, thats the point My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
247
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
The problem with the original post is that the op assumes the only use of jet cans are to dump ore into. There are other uses. During a pos bash in wormhole space, you will often see jet cans used to store ammo. I have seen the same in low sec too. In both cases, the ship dropping off the ammo may be a covert ops hauler, and may make a few trips to a near by station in hi sec it another pos to fill the jet can. The op's proposal would require the yse if multiple cans, when one worked fine.
Additionally, people use jet cans at times to transfer loot. I'm running sites while my partner sets up a pos. I come back to the pos and drop loot in a jet can so I have room for more. I would have to kick out a new jet can each time, cluttering up space.
Or I am in a noctis, salvaging a large mission. I pull the wrecks in, salvage, collect loot, and jet can to hold more. My friend in an industrial ship warps to me, empties the can, leaving 1 item, I keep filling up the same can with what I pull in.
What bothers me on a more personal level is that the op is requesting a mechanic change for asthetic reasons without a full understanding of why jet cans may be used. It's not just for ore and changes shouldn't be made just because one feels the source doesn't make sense. |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
719
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Its something that needs changing in my opinion
How do you explain dropping a container out of your Ibis that can contain more than a vanilla Itty 5?
A plastic bag will fit in my pocket. But when deployed will hold far far more than could fit in my pocket. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
329
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Dave stark wrote:no, the way i understand it is that the largest cargo bay amongst the exhumers will be the same as a jetcan, therefore the ship with max yield will have an ore bay smaller than a jetcan, along with the fact that i mine 2+ jetcans at a time means i'll still be jet can mining.
so let's not **** up jet cans please. jet cans ARE ****ed up, thats the point You are seeing jet cans as not having drawbacks.
All they do is let you pile items in non-portable holding bubbles. They do not move themselves. They pop after two hours. They are a target for theft.
The big ore hold barge / exhumer will be more self sufficient. Anything needing to use a jet can will be effectively limited to group only, unless extra risk and effort accepted to compensate.
|

Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:Does it take less than 2 mins to fill up a Hulk or Covetors hold? (I really dont know this one)
Yes.
The Jet can timer is 3 minutes, a cycle of strip miners is 3 minutes. It would be tight, but add in an Orca bonus and the time drops to 124sec, or 2 minutes. Lots of fleet op based mining uses jet cans and this would make it slow and cumbersome.
FYI One cycle on a Hulk is ~80% of hold size, so cant hold 2 cycles |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1039
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
well, in any case i think that jet cans need to be looked at, because i think its currently a lazy response to in-space cargo that doesnt sit well with the rest of EVE. (i.e. producing a can out of thin air) My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. IMPERIAL LEGI0N
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Michael Loney wrote:Quote:Does it take less than 2 mins to fill up a Hulk or Covetors hold? (I really dont know this one) Yes. The Jet can timer is 3 minutes, a cycle of strip miners is 3 minutes. It would be tight, but add in an Orca bonus and the time drops to 124sec, or 2 minutes. Lots of fleet op based mining uses jet cans and this would make it slow and cumbersome. FYI One cycle on a Hulk is ~80% of hold size, so cant hold 2 cycles
base ore hold on an hulk is 8000 if memory serves.
with 2 mlu IIs and t2 crystals and exhumer V you're pulling in about 1300m3 per strip per cycle unbonused, so about 6 mins to fill a hulk. |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
235
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:I'll keep this short;
Miners are the biggest users of jetcans, and use them to increase their cargo capacity beyond the ships original design
The new ships focus on differing cargo capacity depending on which ship you choose to fly
Keeping the current jetcan 'facility' in its current form sidesteps this slightly. The current capacity of jetcans is laughable, being the same no matter what the size of cargohold the originating ship had.
I propose that jetcans be 'shrinkwrapped' to whatever it is being jettisoned, so the size of the jetcan perfectly contains what was jettisoned with no 'extra capacity'.
(Note, i am not campaigning to remove jetcans, or even their use in mining, just the unexplanably large capacity of them)
feel free to discuss
(And no, this wasnt posted in Features and Ideas, because thats where good idea go to die)
I really don't believe jets cans need to change. Anchorable cans drive me crazy in mining belts though.. can mining is not the idea way to mine anyway. I have a bigger problem with the lack of tabs on the corp hanger window of the orca in space... or no ore hanger item in the pull down menu of the orca in space. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
329
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
what is the exact problem CCP is trying to fix here again breaking jet cans in the same time? |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1039
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:what is the exact problem CCP is trying to fix here again breaking jet cans in the same time?
tl:dr jetcans are too big My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

AFK Hauler
State War Academy
440
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 17:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
No -
I use Jetcans to transfer large cargo volume from PI to transport ships. I would only accept this proposal if we get the feature to jetcan materials directly from the planetary customs office into space.
Jetcan have more utility than those you described, so please don't interfere with my game. |

servellious
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 17:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Dave stark wrote:no, the way i understand it is that the largest cargo bay amongst the exhumers will be the same as a jetcan, therefore the ship with max yield will have an ore bay smaller than a jetcan, along with the fact that i mine 2+ jetcans at a time means i'll still be jet can mining.
so let's not **** up jet cans please. jet cans ARE ****ed up, thats the point
Only in your head. Your trying to make an arguement that has no real basis for change other then "because I want it that way". |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7941
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 17:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:tl:dr jetcans are too big Nah. What you're fixing is the limited size of the jetcans, which causes issues with stuff like trying to salvage freightersGǪ
If cans always conformed to the size of what is being jettisoned (and made them take-only), they could remove the upper size limit for jet cans while still allowing for the transfer of stuff from one ship to the next. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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