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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 753	Posted - 2012.06.15 01:52:00 - [31] - Quote Good corps shoot their own members for funsies. Best corps shoot each other for funsies and reimburse any loss that "may or may not" have been incurred. Welcome to EVE OP. You have been scammed/ransomed/ganked. You are no longer a newbie. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
Sugar Kyle The humbleless Crew Capital Punishment. 48	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:07:00 - [32] - Quote Because then I'd be able to tell my corp mates no. What fun is that? Risk and betrayal are part of the game. Paranoid is a way of life.
Sevastian Liao DreamWeaver Inc. 32	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:23:00 - [33] - Quote While I generally tend towards the "Suck it up, learn from your mistakes and move on" mentality, I think some of you guys are being a bit too harsh on the OP here. In most other games you don't really have the combination of gankability + vulnerability to your own corp mates that results in situations such as this. It's an easy mistake to make, expecting that you'd at least be safe amongst corpmates - Even though you'd be wrong, obviously. Consider that he really took the time to understand more about game aspects such as canflipping, sec status, there's no free lunch etc, and I don't think he's one of the typical ragequitters who just don't "get" EVE and loudly insist on making foolish mistakes. I don't think the mechanic is broken, but I do think that a player who takes the time to do some background research on the game is worth having around, ragequit notwithstanding. It's quite understandable to feel bad when you're a newbie and that new ship you saved painstakingly up for and invested a large amount in gets blown up before you really get a chance to fly it. OP, on the off - chance that you do come back to read - It's part of the game. Live and learn to be cautious of everyone in EVE. If you quit now, you're missing out on an amazing game just for a newbie mistake. As for your losses - Nothing you can't easily recoup with your steadily increasing skills. I'll be one of those offering to help you get back on your feet, so hope you stick around, and drop me a PM if you do decide to give it another try.
J'Poll Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Ethereal Dawn 266	Posted - 2012.06.15 08:00:00 - [34] - Quote Oraac Ensor wrote: Being caught out by not doing proper research and not being aware of a particular game mechanic is one thing. Whether or not that game mechanic is sensible is another thing entirely. I don't disagree with any of the comments about the lack of care taken regarding the amount of risk involved in this case, but I also don't disagree with the OP's opinion that this game mechanic is ridiculous. The concept that people should be able to attack each other without consequence just because they are in the same corp, club, guild or whatever defies all logic. Why should this be required in order for players to engage in consensual combat? If you want a private conversation with another player, you send an invite and they either accept or reject. If you want to fleet up with another player, you send an invite and they either accept or reject. If you want to trade in station, you send an invite and they either accept or reject. Anyone seeing a pattern here? Why not a similar system for consensual combat without CONCORD intervention? Then anyone could duel with anyone else, regardless of allegiance - surely an even better situation? How about: NO Go back to WoW with consensual PvP talks please. If people do a bit of research they learn game mechanics. If they then do research on the corp they join they are pretty much safe. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction
Chiana Moro Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 17	Posted - 2012.06.15 08:19:00 - [35] - Quote Azaru Shepard wrote: If I had flown through lowsec space and got jacked by pirates that's one thing, being abused in 1.0 space is another story. Real pirates I admire, life is not easy for them living in lowsec. Unscrupulous people praying on the newbies in 1.0 space is a whole different story.... Ex-pirate here so thanks =) I totally agree with you that griefers hunting complete newbs are a pain the ... where you sit. Rules 1-3 in EVE are don't fly what you can't afford to lose - whit 4-5 being you are not safe anywhere. This is the nature of EVE, it is very much different from the vast majority of MMOs around.
Chiana Moro Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension 17	Posted - 2012.06.15 08:21:00 - [36] - Quote Oraac Ensor wrote: Why not a similar system for consensual combat without CONCORD intervention? Then anyone could duel with anyone else, regardless of allegiance - surely an even better situation? This is not WoW. EVE is built on non-consensual pvp, if don't like that - go play another game.
Sin Pew Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel 55	Posted - 2012.06.15 08:26:00 - [37] - Quote Oraac Ensor wrote: Being caught out by not doing proper research and not being aware of a particular game mechanic is one thing. Whether or not that game mechanic is sensible is another thing entirely. I don't disagree with any of the comments about the lack of care taken regarding the amount of risk involved in this case, but I also don't disagree with the OP's opinion that this game mechanic is ridiculous. The concept that people should be able to attack each other without consequence just because they are in the same corp, club, guild or whatever defies all logic. Why should this be required in order for players to engage in consensual combat? If you want a private conversation with another player, you send an invite and they either accept or reject. If you want to fleet up with another player, you send an invite and they either accept or reject. If you want to trade in station, you send an invite and they either accept or reject. Anyone seeing a pattern here? Why not a similar system for consensual combat without CONCORD intervention? Then anyone could duel with anyone else, regardless of allegiance - surely an even better situation? I will disagree with that, you join a corp, you put yourself at risk just like the corp does towards you. They can steal from you and so can you. The fact corpmates can shoot each other without DED interference, just follows the same principle and is logical. When I drop mods in my corp's POS hangar, I have a dialog box saying it can be a one-way move. See the pattern? "- You want a sandwich, Bacon?" Support horizontal scrollbars in Eve! Click here, tyvm.
Vilnius Zar Ordo Ardish 58	Posted - 2012.06.15 08:38:00 - [38] - Quote 1 - everybody got hurt the first time they ran into trouble like yours, even folks who now are badass pvpers (only ppl who had "inside help" getting into EVE will have it easier). The first time just sucks and it's a reality check, you'll need time to think it over and get used to the idea you may have talked about being fine with but when faced with it just... hurts. 2 - many people will shy away from the game for that very reason and that's fine, the game isn't for everyone nor should it be. BECAUSE it's so different from other MMOs in that respect it has its own stable (and slowly growing) niche. Some people hate it, some people love it and as there's no other MMOs like it they'll stick around 3 - for all its faults (and EVE has many) it's the best MMO out there BECAUSE of this freedom and the meaningful losses, because if death is meaningless then so is victory. Give it some time and you'll come to that conclusion yourself Give it a few weeks then pick yourself up and try again, vow to not make the same mistakes twice and you'll do fine. Amat victoria curam.
Oraac Ensor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.06.15 09:41:00 - [39] - Quote J'Poll wrote: How about: NO Go back to WoW with consensual PvP talks please. If people do a bit of research they learn game mechanics. If they then do research on the corp they join they are pretty much safe. Never played WoW in my life, nor any other MMO apart from this one. I'm not a gamer as such, I'm a sci-fi fan and the only other online game I've played is Homeworld 2 Complex. Back to the point. Why shouldn't any two players be able to fight each other without interference if that's what they want to do? Chiana Moro wrote: This is not WoW. EVE is built on non-consensual pvp, if don't like that - go play another game. Where exactly did I advocate the general removal of non-consensual PvP? What I suggested was a limited measure to make it impossible to force onto corpmates, given that the ability to engage in consenual PvP is the only reason given here for the game mechanic that allows that to happen.
Oraac Ensor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.06.15 09:54:00 - [40] - Quote Sugar Kyle wrote: Because then I'd be able to tell my corp mates no. What fun is that? Ah, I see. To you, something is only "fun" if the other party is unwilling. I think I get the picture.

Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises 460	Posted - 2012.06.15 09:57:00 - [41] - Quote I support the addition of a Duel system. The can flipping option is just a mess. HOWEVER I do not support the removal of being able to shoot at your corp mates. Corp infiltration is a classic tactic, and shouldn't be eliminated. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.
Sin Pew Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel 55	Posted - 2012.06.15 10:02:00 - [42] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: I support the addition of a Duel system. The can flipping option is just a mess. How about just leaving high-sec? You can duel all you want in the numerous empty low-sec systems. "- You want a sandwich, Bacon?" Support horizontal scrollbars in Eve! Click here, tyvm.
J'Poll Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Ethereal Dawn 267	Posted - 2012.06.15 10:05:00 - [43] - Quote Oraac Ensor wrote: Back to the point. Why shouldn't any two players be able to fight each other without interference if that's what they want to do? Ever heard of arranged 1v1 using the can flipping mechanics. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction
Oraac Ensor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.06.15 10:05:00 - [44] - Quote Sin Pew wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: I support the addition of a Duel system. The can flipping option is just a mess. How about just leaving high-sec? You can duel all you want in the numerous empty low-sec systems. Er . . . because that would make you vulnerable to non-consensual PvP, which isn't the object?
Oraac Ensor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.06.15 10:09:00 - [45] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Oraac Ensor wrote: Back to the point. Why shouldn't any two players be able to fight each other without interference if that's what they want to do? Ever heard of arranged 1v1 using the can flipping mechanics. Of course, but I agree with this: Steve Ronuken wrote: The can flipping option is just a mess.
Pak Narhoo Knights of Kador 561	Posted - 2012.06.15 10:17:00 - [46] - Quote EVE can be hard if you do not inform yourself. And the biggest rule is to trust no-one. It's a bit sad but that's the way EVE is. Does not mean there are no people you can trust but you're wise for that to take time. Reading your OP you made a few mistakes, - As mentioned by others you flew something you could not replace immediately. - You trusted people you didn't know (at all) - You had no insight into some basic game mechanics, like Concord is not here to protect you and that your corp members can shoot you, just like that without any repercussion. - You fly a mining vessel in a dangerous period where all mining individuals are basically called outlaws just because they mine. Now you are new so you can be a bit excused for not knowing all, yet when I was 10 days old when some people promised me golden mountains and wanted to fleet up with me, I knew they where up to no good (back then fleeting up with someone made it possible to shoot you without penalty). Because I was informed by having help channel open, rookie chat (even tough it was a terrible place) and I surfed the forums I just politely said no and lived another day. You can learn a lot! by just listening/ reading what's going on. How sad this little episode may be for you, I hope this gets picked up by a lot of other starting players and they learn something from this. As you should do. Don't just quit, get back right now. Yes it sux losing your first mining vessel you worked so hard for but that is how EVE works. Things are build so other people can blow it up. It is only a temporal set back you have had, nothing that cannot be replaced (spacepixsels) and you are now a lot more aware of how devious the people in EVE can be. I really hope you don't quit over this, it makes it for the people who did this to you only more worth it. Deny them the lols of having you forced to quit, which is also a form of PvP. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm...
J'Poll Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Ethereal Dawn 267	Posted - 2012.06.15 10:34:00 - [47] - Quote Oraac Ensor wrote: J'Poll wrote: Oraac Ensor wrote: Back to the point. Why shouldn't any two players be able to fight each other without interference if that's what they want to do? Ever heard of arranged 1v1 using the can flipping mechanics. Of course, but I agree with this: Steve Ronuken wrote: The can flipping option is just a mess. And the bracketed comment in your edit to your last post just proves the point. No it isn't EVE isn't fair If the enemy brought boosters and help and you didn't, means you were stupid and should have done the same. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction
Sin Pew Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel 55	Posted - 2012.06.15 10:36:00 - [48] - Quote Oraac Ensor wrote: Sin Pew wrote: Steve Ronuken wrote: I support the addition of a Duel system. The can flipping option is just a mess. How about just leaving high-sec? You can duel all you want in the numerous empty low-sec systems. Er . . . because that would make you vulnerable to non-consensual PvP, which isn't the object? First, leaving high-sec means you consent to PvP, there's warning dialogs you have to acknowledge before entering low-sec and further on, null-sec. Second, undocking itself is consenting to PvP, heck even logging on is. Can flipping red-flag is a game mechanism allowing a player and his corp to shoot someone stealing from a wreck or a can and is used for duels, just like mutual war-dec is used by RvB to provide a PvP arena. These mechanisms weren't designed for these purposes and the multiple past suggestions about "consensual PvP" either through duels or "arenas" were rejected by the community and CCP because the majority of the playerbase apparently abides to the PvP with consequences design of EvE. There is always consequences, if you don't want them, duel on SiSi, everything costs 100ISK, sec status isn't transfered to TQ and there's far less people possibly interfering. "- You want a sandwich, Bacon?" Support horizontal scrollbars in Eve! Click here, tyvm.
Oraac Ensor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.06.15 10:57:00 - [49] - Quote Sin Pew wrote: First, leaving high-sec means you consent to PvP, there's warning dialogs you have to acknowledge before entering low-sec and further on, null-sec. Of course. Why are you pointing that out? Why else would I have said that it's not an option if you're only consenting to combat with one specific opponent? Sin Pew wrote: Second, undocking itself is consenting to PvP, heck even logging on is. The general PvP risk you accept by playing EVE isn't free of CONCORD intervenion except as governed by system sec level. What we're discussing here is consensual PvP without external interference. I grant that SiSi is an option, but it's a bit of a contrivance just for a casual scrap with another player.
Sin Pew Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel 55	Posted - 2012.06.15 12:35:00 - [50] - Quote Oraac Ensor wrote: Sin Pew wrote: First, leaving high-sec means you consent to PvP, there's warning dialogs you have to acknowledge before entering low-sec and further on, null-sec. Of course. Why are you pointing that out? Why else would I have said that it's not an option if you're only consenting to combat with one specific opponent? You said: Oraac Ensor wrote: because that would make you vulnerable to non-consensual PvP, which isn't the object? I say all PvP is consensual. Oraac Ensor wrote: Sin Pew wrote: Second, undocking itself is consenting to PvP, heck even logging on is. The general PvP risk you accept by playing EVE isn't free of CONCORD intervenion except as governed by system sec level. What we're discussing here is consensual PvP without external interference. I grant that SiSi is an option, but it's a bit of a contrivance just for a casual scrap with another player. You're mistaking the illusional risk-free PvP when can-flipping, with consensual PvP. It's that simple, EvE is built and advertised as a PvP with consequences (risks) game and you're requesting a risk-free PvP option in high-sec. Because you trust the other player to not hotdrop corpmates, doesn't entitle you to risk-free PvP. The risk of having corpmates hotdropped, is like the risk of having unknown players inviting themselves on grid if you go in lowsec. If you want to compare your skills (same thing as testing) with someone, or test a fit, there's a test server, it's not convenient, because it's not designed to become a parallel risk-free environment to Tranquility. "- You want a sandwich, Bacon?" Support horizontal scrollbars in Eve! Click here, tyvm.

J'Poll Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Ethereal Dawn 267	Posted - 2012.06.15 12:43:00 - [51] - Quote Uhm: How would a pop up asking you if you want to fight player "x" yes or no prevent them from using off grid boosts or warping in buddies that pull aggression using the game mechanics (repping drones, ECCM etc.). Want to shoot eachother, safe-spot, 2 cans, flip them, GO. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction
Oraac Ensor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.06.15 13:01:00 - [52] - Quote Sin Pew wrote: I say all PvP is consensual. Then you are wrong. Accepting the risk of something isn't the same as consenting to it. Every time I leave my home I accept the risk of being mugged. Every time I cross the road I accept the risk of being killed by some lunatic driver. That doesn't mean I consent to those things. J'Poll wrote: How would a pop up asking you if you want to fight player "x" yes or no prevent them from using off grid boosts or warping in buddies that pull aggression using the game mechanics (repping drones, ECCM etc.). Obviously, by making the immunity from CONCORD applicable only to the two consenting parties.
Luis Graca 52	Posted - 2012.06.15 13:05:00 - [53] - Quote Steve Ronuken wrote: I support the addition of a Duel system. The can flipping option is just a mess. HOWEVER I do not support the removal of being able to shoot at your corp mates. Corp infiltration is a classic tactic, and shouldn't be eliminated. Did they remove ther "no agression" wend in the same fleet? If they didn't an you want a duel just fleet up
Oraac Ensor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.06.15 13:09:00 - [54] - Quote I'm pretty sure that shooting a fleet member gets you CONCORDed unless you're also in the same corp.
Django Returns ARES Unlimited 19	Posted - 2012.06.15 13:33:00 - [55] - Quote It is not about how it is meant to be played, but how it is perceived. And Azaru Shepard thought that 1.0 and 0.9 are safe. His mistake but a loss for EVE $$$.
Bjron A-OK Logistics and Fabrication StoneGuard Alliance 18	Posted - 2012.06.15 15:31:00 - [56] - Quote Looks like Op lost out, he/she lost out on a great game and CCP lost money. The only thing I can offer here has already been said. OP, if you read this please feel free to PM me in game this weekend or EVE mail me, ill be happy to help you get started again. I can't offer a whole lot, but I can replace that ship you lost, fittings and insurance too. I should have enough to get you into a frigate and cruiser as well. I honestly feel like what happened was equally your fault and the corps fault, but don't sweat the isk. I have loss more in 15 minutes than you have ever made so far. The biggest loss I ever had was around 300M (Lost ship, podded with implants) within a hour of logging in one day. Such is life in Eve.
Taylor Nova Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow 0	Posted - 2012.06.15 15:53:00 - [57] - Quote A few comments From An retired Admin in one of EA games battlefields games. Being a Newbie in Most MMORGS is not a very nice Experiance, its a fact of life. Only some games have a protection bubble round them, like Command and Conquer Alliences, which last 6-7 days, where you can't be attacked. I have been playing this a week or so, its very hard going for newbies, But im lucky enough to have played Dark orbit some time ago, for a year, so Know some of the ropes, so to speak. I have lost two ships, but only in low missions, Some of these missions where aura pops up, appear to be on rails, so what ever you do to escape after completing a dead space mission, means you get blown up. I finally terminated the Worf charactor, but took me hours, because at 7 days old, you not going to have a Hi powered ship to use. In fact, I bought both an dual light cannon and a gatling gun using the projectile ammo and one basic Shield, but trying to fit the other module, Hull repairer, popped up a message saying my flux whatever hasnt the power to activate this, thus, i had to do quick strikes on Wolfs tower, trying to outrun the stolen navy Bird, which was impossible, so had to leg it back 12 times back to a base to get repaired.. Surely these newbie type missions should be adjusted, to what ship and fittings you are limited to. I insured all my ships from day one, wether on tutorials or not. I find it abhorrent, that a corp, could do what it did. I know this is supposed to be a tough game, but to my mind newbies should be protected for a time By being able to enlist there own concord guard, in fact an NPC Concord Ship should be around with a newbie as a protection bubble for a limited time. I dont see anything so far, that makes me believe Concord is actually any use in the game, if the core of the game is mutiny, piracy, and down right unfair play, The Concord police is all but in name. I did join a Corp, but the invite came from an established group, which I looked into, and was happy with the information aquired. trouble is, I think they live 12-15 jumps away, I doubt I would make it in once piece to there headqauters. Unfortunelty I have also not gone on to being a full member, because I will not pay the Subscription fee and get charged again for a so called setup fee. I wanted to pay by paypal, but the amount was still being charged at -ú14 instead of -ú9.99. This amounts to a cash cow, if 39,000 players have paid nearly -ú5 on top of there sub charge then, This company has made nearly -ú195,000 in profit, on top of the sub fee. I thought EAsy's profiteering was bad enough, but charging a set up fee to pay a tenner on paypal is taking the P***. So Like the OP I prbabaly wont be back, the mere thought of losing my equipment permantly and all the moeny earned has put me off. At least in dark Orbit, if your ship is destroyed, you still have the fittings in your hanger for the next ship. Something not quite right with the Ethics of this game, and im one, that feels, its not for me.
Citsatllort Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.06.15 16:17:00 - [58] - Quote Welcome to Eve Where D-Bag player behavior is exactly the customer base CCP desires. If it was not a corp that did this to you it would be some other player that is participating in CCP sanctioned Goons supported Hulkageddon. You can either be forced to play how goons want you to play or quit like many others.
Lost Greybeard Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution 84	Posted - 2012.06.15 16:20:00 - [59] - Quote Azaru Shepard wrote: So like I said I just started the game. Retriever skill requirements: Mining Barge III -Astrogeology III Industry V Science IV Mining IV Not to mention all the secondary skills to equip basic tank and so on. You've been in the game on the order of a month at minimum, you no longer get sympathy for doing dramatically stupid things like joining a corporation without even clicking on their info sheet and the info of their leader, and not realizing that corp-mates can shoot you. Will we offer genuine advice telling you what went wrong and how to avoid it in the future? Yes. Do we think your problem is anything but funny and/or your own fault? No. As someone who's generally quite patient with people that haven't figured out how things work yet: HTFU and stop whining over problems caused by your own personal failure to put even the most basic effort into learning the rules of the game. Since the improvements to the new player experience a year or so back this game's learning curve is not particularly steep, man up and deal.
Zornia Estemaire The Scope Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.06.15 16:24:00 - [60] - Quote Quote: I did join a Corp, but the invite came from an established group, which I looked into, and was happy with the information aquired. trouble is, I think they live 12-15 jumps away, I doubt I would make it in once piece to there headqauters. To all newb pilots out there. I think there is a bit of mis-conception going on here. If you fly around in Hi-sec the chances of even getting shot at are very remote. Unless you either join corps that war dec all the time, or **** people off just for the fun of it, or carry a high amount of loot or faction modules no one will bother you. I have been flying around all of hi-sec for a year and half now and haven't been shot at even once. Although, I have never joined a corp(which is basically shunned on in this game) but that is just the way I like it right now. I suspect someday I will join one but I'm having the time of my life in this game as is without getting involved with the extra hassles in corp life. I'm just saying to all you newbs out there its not as bad as you envision just flying from system to system in hi-sec.



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