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Marquis d'Carabas
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Posted - 2009.11.17 18:50:00 -
[1]
Hello fellow Mac users,
I was just wondering if there are plans for a native Mac client. Looking at the stickies didn't shed a light on that.
Don't get me wrong the client works suitably well for me right now. Well, running most of the stuff on low. However I do not see this as a solution. In fact I can run everything on high, then you just have faster heat issues compared to low.
Which brings me to my sore point about the client. Somehow it manages to drain an unbelievable amount of resources, e.g. I am sitting in a station and simply browse through contracts for an extended period. Within the first 10 minutes my fans a speeding up considerably. There should be no computational load while doing this, everything else would be rather non-sensical. So I basically see this as an emulation issue in the background of the app. Whether simple contract browsing or dogfighting in space, the workload of the client does rarely change.
I'd hope that with a native client those issues would be moot. So, are there any known plans for a native client? Or maybe a considerable performance improvement on the Cider one?
Hope to get some answers or some backup from other Mac users ... enjoy your flight and have fun.
Cheers
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Daelorn
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Posted - 2009.11.17 23:34:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
I am sitting in a station and simply browse through contracts for an extended period. Within the first 10 minutes my fans a speeding up considerably. There should be no computational load while doing this, everything else would be rather non-sensical. So I basically see this as an emulation issue in the background of the app. Whether simple contract browsing or dogfighting in space, the workload of the client does rarely change.
Uhm how about the whole part where the GPU is RENDERING everything on your screen?! Yeah that puts a bit of load on the computer.
Also, being in station docked puts more load on the GPU than when flying in space.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.11.18 04:33:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 18/11/2009 04:33:21
This is not a problem of emulation, the emulation is actually pretty close to native speed. Actually, there's not emulation here; wine is actually a _re-implementation_ of win32 API's and libraries.
The REAL problem you're facing here is that CCP has no concept of reasonable frame rates, nor are willing to give users control of how many FPS they want in various environments. I don't need more than 10-15 FPS in stations when I do station spinning the whole day.
BTW, try switching to the map while docked. It's much kinder to your hardware.
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GPFS
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Posted - 2009.11.18 07:44:00 -
[4]
They have stated few times, the will be NO native client for MAC any time soon.
To the guy that stated that cider runs it almost native, LoL. Would like to explain the HUGE difference in frame rate in MAC and Windows...
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Flynn Fetladral
Caldari
BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2009.11.18 11:33:00 -
[5]
Since 10.6.2 dropped graphics driver updates I've been able to get over 100FPS on my MBP 17" Mid 2009. Running missions I've generally found the FPS to sit around 45 FPS+ only on a few of the cluttered missions (lot's of poly's) do I see it drop below 30FPS. This is a case of bad level design more than issues with FPS though. Stability and Performance need to continue to move forward. I don't think your going to see a native build of EVE on Mac anytime soon.
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2009.11.18 11:49:00 -
[6]
You don't have a problem. That is perfectly normal behavior for a continuously updating game loop. When there is more congestion on display it draws more power to render it all every frame.
3D games always clear and redraw the whole frame for each and every refresh of the display. Typically a minimum of 60 times every second.
Anyone who says otherwise is bull****ting.
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The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Ellamar
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Posted - 2009.11.18 18:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Flynn Fetladral
Since 10.6.2 dropped graphics driver updates I've been able to get over 100FPS on my MBP 17" Mid 2009.
How much RAM do you have in that MBP of yours? I'm considering getting one myself, but wasn't sure about the performance improvement.
BR Ella
ps @ OP, sorry for abusing your tread.
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Flynn Fetladral
Caldari
BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ellamar
Originally by: Flynn Fetladral
Since 10.6.2 dropped graphics driver updates I've been able to get over 100FPS on my MBP 17" Mid 2009.
How much RAM do you have in that MBP of yours? I'm considering getting one myself, but wasn't sure about the performance improvement.
BR Ella
ps @ OP, sorry for abusing your tread.
I got 4 GB of RAM (8GB at the time was Ç1000, and I'm not paying that much for 8GB). I still get slow downs, I've been noticing recently that under my M9800GT I've been getting lot's of very active HDD use, which I've never really noticed before, this sometimes is causing FPS spikes in game. I don't see this happening under the M9400.
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Marquis d'Carabas
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Posted - 2009.11.18 22:01:00 -
[9]
Thanks for the answers, seems to be a 'Meh'-topic.
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Remus Kurgan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:07:00 -
[10]
I suppose the obvious question no one has asked yet is what hardware are you on? As far as a native client is concerned, that's likely never going to happen as CCP has all but stated outright that they won't use OpenGL for EVE. That really only leaves Cider for a virtualization/translation solution for Macs, which has gotten better, but is still far from a pure native application.
Potentially, there are ways of cooling your machine more efficiently through a cooling pad (if you have a MB or MBP) or cleaning/clearing vents, but otherwise you'll be limited to options to adjust fan speeds via software or looking at different hardware. I would be surprised if you were having this issue on an iMac or a Mac Pro TBH, but post your setup.
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Lan Staz
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:39:00 -
[11]
Also, have you set your graphics settings to interval default (or anything other than interval immediate)? That will peg your FPS to 30, but keeps the CPU/GPU utilisation - and hence heat - down significantly.
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Alphabits
Fogworks
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Posted - 2009.11.21 20:03:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Alphabits on 21/11/2009 20:06:29
The reason your fans are running full speed is because the even if your doing nothing at all, the CPU is processing the native Windows DX calls to OpenGL. This is just a fact of the Cider emulation and there is no way around it. On windows, just sitting in station twirling your ship would use mostly GPU resources and would hardly use the CPU at all. On a Mac, those same calls have to be translated to OpenGL calls which is very CPU intensive.
Notebooks: I would never run Eve on a macbook anything because your just cooking your CPU the entire time. You would be much better off to use bootcamp to play eve IMHO. I know there are plenty of people that play eve all day long on OSX with a Macbook and wouldn't think twice so thats just my opinion.
IMO CCP should put a big warning on the Eve for Mac box (is there such a thing?) warning users about potential heat damage on notebooks due to the extreme stress that cider places on the CPU.
As for the original posters question. I don't think CCP has any plans to port and OpenGL version of Eve. Nor do I think they would switch to OpenGL. It would be nice though I agree.
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2009.11.22 12:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Alphabits
... On windows, just sitting in station twirling your ship would use mostly GPU resources and would hardly use the CPU at all.
While Cider-Mac may not be as fast, as Windoze is, at running Windoze Apps on the same hardware, Eve still uses plenty of CPU on Windoze too. Eve is CPU heavy. That's just the way it is.
Quote:
IMO CCP should put a big warning on the Eve for Mac box (is there such a thing?) warning users about potential heat damage on notebooks due to the extreme stress that cider places on the CPU.
A user application is allowed to use 100% of resources 24/7. Games often do exactly that, and for good reason. If the equipment can't handle it then talk to the equipment maker.
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The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Alphabits
Fogworks
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Posted - 2009.11.22 21:18:00 -
[14]
To each his own. If you want to base what you do on what *should* be versus what is, then more power to you. Even PC notebooks get beat to death with games, but on a typical windows game most of the heat is going to be GPU generated. Thats the case with eve as well. Just spinning a ship on my system takes about 50% CPU. As i write this right now, with eve in the background, Cider is using160% of a quad core system. Get out into space where the overview and other moving objects come into play and it goes up exponentially from there. On the same hardware in Windows, the client barely registers any CPU usage when idle and the worst I've ever seen it is *maybe* 35% for a brief moment.
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Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2009.11.23 02:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alphabits
... a typical windows game most of the heat is going to be GPU generated.
Rubbish. CPU is nearly always the biggest contributor to heat. It would have to be a pretty basic graphics demo to be otherwise.
Quote:
Thats the case with eve as well.
Absolutely not. Eve is the most CPU bound game I've ever seen.
Quote:
On the same hardware in Windows, the client barely registers any CPU usage when idle and the worst I've ever seen it is *maybe* 35% for a brief moment.
Wishful thinking.
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The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up! |
Toxif
Minmatar
Hmmzor.
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Posted - 2009.11.26 20:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: GPFS
They have stated few times, the will be NO native client for MAC any time soon.
To the guy that stated that cider runs it almost native, LoL. Would like to explain the HUGE difference in frame rate in MAC and Windows...
Mac, not MAC. It's not an acronym; it's an abbreviation for Macintosh.
____________________________________________________________
Originally by: MorbidAngel4
......So this is what my social security tax goes towards....
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