EVE Search - Fixing the Disparity Between Armor and Shield Buffers

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Fixing the Disparity Between Armor and Shield Buffers

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.23 01:54:00 - [1] Edited by: Berendas on 23/11/2009 01:58:34 As it is, shield extenders offer much more than armor plates. Shield buffers increase your sig radius while armor buffers increase your mass/decrease velocity. An increased sig radius is much more preferable to a heavier ship because sig radius just makes you easier to hit, but does not lower your speed at all. Armor buffers slow you down-- this makes you easier to hit (like shield buffers) but it also makes you easier to tackle and increases travel time to target meaning you put less damage on your target. Currently shield tankers get more skills that benefit tanks of each type [might have missed 1 but I think I got them all]. Shield skills (9): EM Shield Compensation Explosive Shield Compensation Kinetic Shield Compensation Thermic Shield Compensation Shield Compensation Shield Management Shield Operation Shield Upgrades Tactical Shield Manipulation Armor Skills (6): EM Armor Compensation Explosive Armor Compensation Kinetic Armor Compensation Thermic Compensation Hull Upgrades Repair Systems To help the difference between shield and armor buffers I propose that armor tankers get another skill to alleviate the disadvantages of armor tanks (but not eliminate them). Armor Plating Differentials (I can't think of a good name ) Knowledge of armor plates and their strategic placement on ships. -7.5% mass addition from armor plates per level. -dons flame suit- Edit: A skill like this would have to benefit armor rigs as well.
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.23 02:07:00 - [2] Lights up flame thrower. You will get more buffer and less disadvantages in the same patch CCP implements XL Shield Extenders. Until then, HTFU and STFU.
Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.23 02:26:00 - [3] Really? I did not know this, could you link me to the patch notes?
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.11.23 09:04:00 - [4] if you like shield buffers more, train for caldari with their disadvantages =) I'm annoyed with all the whines about things are not all the same across races ffs, please STFU and play the race you like more, go buy a character, trade yours or create a completely new one!!! There is no help needed for "between shield and armor buffers", these are different races!!!
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.11.23 09:11:00 - [5] Here I was thinking that the general consensus is shield and armor being different but overall balanced. I do know for a fact that a large number of WH residents will laugh heartily at this thread while they plow through the most profitable content in the game with their RR armor tanks But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.11.23 09:14:00 - [6] So you've shown that shield tanking is more skill intensive, gives fewer EHP and is incompatible with non-logistics RR, and you decide that armour-tanking needs fixing? Nice one, Einstein.
Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.23 09:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Gypsio III So you've shown that shield tanking is more skill intensive, gives fewer EHP and is incompatible with non-logistics RR, and you decide that armour-tanking needs fixing? Nice one, Einstein. No, armor needs help when dedicated armor ships or when ships from a primarily armor-based race do better as shield tanks, but the reverse is never true, save for maybe the Scorpion. Brutix Myrmidon Harbinger Curse (more or less) Ishtar
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.11.23 10:38:00 - [8] And still people prefer armor tanks in PvP. It can be balanced even if it's not the same. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.11.23 11:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Berendas No, armor needs help when dedicated armor ships or when ships from a primarily armor-based race do better as shield tanks, but the reverse is never true, save for maybe the Scorpion. And the Raven, and arguably the Tempest and Dominix. But what you're really talking about is the clash between tanking methods on different ship sizes. On BS, shield tanking is a joke because of the absurd CPU requirements of LSTs. On sub-BS, shield-tanking is often favoured because of the mobility advantages. If you really want to improve the balance of tanking methods, you'll need to address both points.
Sexonarocka	Posted - 2009.11.23 14:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Berendas Currently shield tankers get more skills that benefit tanks of each type [might have missed 1 but I think I got them all]. Shield skills (9): EM Shield Compensation Explosive Shield Compensation Kinetic Shield Compensation Thermic Shield Compensation Shield Compensation Shield Management Shield Operation Shield Upgrades Tactical Shield Manipulation Armor Skills (6): EM Armor Compensation Explosive Armor Compensation Kinetic Armor Compensation Thermic Compensation Hull Upgrades Repair Systems To help the difference between shield and armor buffers I propose that armor tankers get another skill to alleviate the disadvantages of armor tanks (but not eliminate them). Armor Plating Differentials (I can't think of a good name ) Knowledge of armor plates and their strategic placement on ships. -7.5% mass addition from armor plates per level. -dons flame suit- Edit: A skill like this would have to benefit armor rigs as well. Agree with this one, and also armour tankers should get an XL Armor repper.
Cearain	Posted - 2009.11.23 15:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Robert Caldera if you like shield buffers more, train for caldari with their disadvantages =) I'm annoyed with all the whines about things are not all the same across races ffs, please STFU and play the race you like more, go buy a character, trade yours or create a completely new one!!! There is no help needed for "between shield and armor buffers", these are different races!!! I agree with what he said. The races generally should be balanced but each individual module doesn't need to be balanced with some perceived "opposite mod." Looking at things like this in a vacuum is not good for the game.
Skex Relbore	Posted - 2009.11.23 18:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Berendas No, armor needs help when dedicated armor ships or when ships from a primarily armor-based race do better as shield tanks, but the reverse is never true, save for maybe the Scorpion. And the Raven, and arguably the Tempest and Dominix. Um the Domi is an armor tanker by nature.
Mike Voidstar	Posted - 2009.11.23 19:03:00 - [13] Edited by: Mike Voidstar on 23/11/2009 19:06:08 Domi goes either way. It is bonused for drone damage/HP, and Large Turret Damage. It has a crap-ton of both mid and low slots, making it well suited to either armor or shield tanking. Generally, I armor tank it, to take advantage of the mids for drone upgrades, but with 7 lows for Sheild Relays, and 5 mids for extenders, you can get respectable sheilds on it as well---though lacking the Minmatar T2 base resists, or the universal bonus must caldari ships get, the Domi isn't as efficient at farming as some would wish.
Giribaldi	Posted - 2009.11.23 20:05:00 - [14] i think that all caldari ships should have 8 mids and ccp some how makes restrictions to waht can be fitted and how many i know it soudsn ahrd but lets pretend it sint lets say that they make restrictiosn ucan only put 4 large ext's 1 x-l booster 2 hardeners wether it be passive or active 1 slot dedicated to cap booster and 2 otheres 1 for mwd and 1 for point i think if this is possible it would make caldari and all other races basically even for pvp atm caldari are ** solo pvpers and thats why ppl *** about them but in fleets they are the best for dps maybe not isntance dps but they are the best dps in game what i hate is that people complain that armor tanks need buffing IE thhat x-large shield booster doesnt equal 2 large armor reps and that it should well geuess what if they did that armor tanks would be op and nobody would go shield tanker
Skex Relbore	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Mike Voidstar Edited by: Mike Voidstar on 23/11/2009 19:06:08 Domi goes either way. It is bonused for drone damage/HP, and Large Turret Damage. It has a crap-ton of both mid and low slots, making it well suited to either armor or shield tanking. Generally, I armor tank it, to take advantage of the mids for drone upgrades, but with 7 lows for Sheild Relays, and 5 mids for extenders, you can get respectable sheilds on it as well---though lacking the Minmatar T2 base resists, or the universal bonus must caldari ships get, the Domi isn't as efficient at farming as some would wish. It's also got a fair bit more armor than shield HP making it more effective as an armor tank. That being said it's a very flexible ship with a crap ton of slots which lets it do interesting things like passive shield tanking.
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Tarron Sarek And still people prefer armor tanks in PvP. It can be balanced even if it's not the same. One of the big reasons armor tanking is preferred is because then you have slots open for tackle, speed, and cap boosters. For PvP you need, at the absolute minimum, a speed mod and a warp disruptor. Then it is a good idea to toss on a web and a cap booster. 4 slots already gone from your tank. Poof. People say that armor tanking has to compete with damage mods, but most people fit only 2 damage mods, sometimes 3. The upside is that, shield tanking, your lows are wide open for damage mods, speed mods, whatever weak ECCM fits into the lows, etc. It's a trade off. I don't have any real experience with RR gangs, but I'm curious as to why people don't use RR shield gangs. Is it due to poor modules, fewer logistical choices, or the fact that RR armor gives you some extra lead time due to a shield buffer?
Tom Peeping	Posted - 2009.11.24 21:29:00 - [17] dunno what you mean man. We fly with, and fight against Shield RR nearly non-stop. It's significantly more effective than armor RR, though it's harder to fit.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.11.24 21:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Andrea Griffin curious as to why people don't use RR shield gangs. Is it due to poor modules, fewer logistical choices, or the fact that RR armor gives you some extra lead time due to a shield buffer? Two reasons - 1) there are fewer shield-tanking BS than armor-tanking BS useful in an RR gang and 2) large shield transporters are much more difficult to fit than large remote armor reps.

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.