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Corian Teranos
Caldari
Critical Mass Inc.
Symbiogenesis
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Posted - 2009.11.25 19:30:00 -
[1]
Low sec has always tried to be slightly safer than null sec but has inevitably failed miserably and in fact due to a abundance of stations and complete lack of concord presence it is a lot easier to assemble and manage a gank fleet without having to worry about drawing the attention of one of the larger pvp corps to bring down the hammer and contain the problem. This results in an overabundance of Greifers, People who donĘt care about piracy as a living but exist only to pray on newcomers. I propose that the developers look into installing a special low sec version of concord that would function as a deterrent, while at the same time contain a large number of dirty/crooked cops that are bribable and killable.
Message from Shady Police Captain:
You have violated the law but our sensors detect you have a large cache of Crash in your hold I guess I could look the other way this one time for say + of your stock or perhaps 5million isk?
Lowsec police ships would have normal npc stats similar to level 4 mission rats and use a sleeper like AI. This assures that should you not wish to bribe your way out you may be able to tank or kill the police provided you have the skills. Fighting the police will lead to escalation but after you have killed enough they will cut their losses and eventually give up. This and jamming from the police may give any captured ship a slight chance to warp away adding to a slightly increased safety factor.
I would also like to see corporate level payoffs for large sums of money corporations can buy off the police in a system where they have an office, resulting in complete immunity as well as another isk sink.
I am asking for this system not to make lowsec care bear friendly but to cut down on Greifers Of Opportunity. And leave the piracy to people who are truly into pvp and are willing to expend the resources that real life criminal organizations use to skirt above the law.
:Its all fun and games untill your logistics guy tries passive tanking his raven: |
Foraven
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.26 02:26:00 -
[2]
I support this. In fact it goes in the same direction of several other suggestions i posted before. Low sec used to be safer than that years ago, now it's a no man land. I was not aware of the relation between station count and griefing, but it does make sense. At least now i know why PVP alliances don't bother cleaning up low sec systems...
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Mr Opinions
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Posted - 2009.11.26 03:16:00 -
[3]
a roaming posse ... sort of wild-west style...
hmmm .. could work
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Alfalpha
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Posted - 2009.11.26 03:22:00 -
[4]
me like idea!
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DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2009.11.26 03:33:00 -
[5]
No, no, just no. The concept behind lowsec, is you can shoot whoever you want, all you get after a while is no more Jita.
While 0.0 is run by players.
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Shana Matika
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Posted - 2009.11.26 12:17:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: DuKackBoon
No, no, just no. The concept behind lowsec, is you can shoot whoever you want, all you get after a while is no more Jita.
While 0.0 is run by players.
My interpretation of LOWsec is LOWsecurity...not NOsecurity...thats Nullsec.
Support.
It's a strange behavior that in one system are 12 Police force ships at a gate and in next system pirates just shoot away anything without even one police commander jumping in.
A time delay could make the point here. Or as soon as several kills are recorded police force's start to patrol there. As long as there is an Empire faction in the SOV-Tab Concord should react to criminal actions - just slower in 0.4 and lower.
Off course this should not be present in FW regions...those are war zones. Flag those solar systems as war zones and prevent concord from take any action in these regions.
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.26 13:57:00 -
[7]
hmm
I like this sort of like ther is concord on the 0.5 gate with 5 bships 3 4 cruisers 3 tacklers they recieve aggression form 0.4 on other side jumpinn and warp in regular fassion like player with all the delays and take or not take if bribed action. if you have sleeper AI this while killable by nice pirate gang would be a challenge actually.
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Flying ZombieJesus
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Posted - 2009.11.26 14:18:00 -
[8]
Think of lowsec gates to highsec like the border of US to mexico.
There may be 40 cops on the US side, but they can't cross that magical line, even if they see something going on.
They have to leave it for the mexican gateguns. |
Lemmy Kravitz
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Posted - 2009.11.26 16:32:00 -
[9]
Mexican gate guns suck. They look the other way most the time, or just spode when a cartel ship looks at em funny. =(
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Mr Opinions
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Posted - 2009.11.27 17:55:00 -
[10]
Actually it might make more sense if you used the appropriate empire faction police/military instead of concord for this idea.
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Waylan Yutani
Gallente
DEATHFUNK
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Posted - 2009.11.28 13:23:00 -
[11]
No, low-sec works just fine as it is - and its pretty safe believ it or not.
Gate/station guns spew out 350 dps, which makes sure that fast lockers keep off the stations and gates. You may get a sensorboosted, logi-supporte rapier that grabs anything - but people bringing those ships are the organized pirates you speak of.
The higher your sec status is, the harsher the penalty for shooting someone "innocent" is. That means that you relatively fast goes from positive sec standing to outlaw. once outlawed, the penalty for shooting people in lowsec decreases. What keeps most people from killing players in lowsec, is the security hit.
if you keep attention to local channel, and moreso to you d-scan, use common sense. you are safe in low-sec
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.11.28 13:52:00 -
[12]
not to mention. no bubbles which makes it also much safer than 0.0
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Thera Romana
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Posted - 2009.11.28 16:50:00 -
[13]
Ok like your idea, would possible expand on it, we can already rent corp hangars in NPC stations, now the NPC's who own the space dont like spending money on security, but what if you could rent guns like offices.
Guns:
Rent would be weekly base with gun replacement cost. example 1 small gun runs 1 mil per week to rent and 200k each time it is destroyed and needs replaced.
you wouldnt be able to place the guns, the npc corp does that, you just rent and state where, IE rent 2 large, 2 med, 2 small at gate, or at a belt.
Guns would work just like current high sec guns, not like pos guns.
effectively base of system is low sec, but how safe it is, is player driven. If pirates want to control that space they just keep destroying the guns till its not cost effective for the renting corp. Rented guns would not attack war targets just like high sec guns. The guns would not work off of red vs blue either, you rent the gun, you shoot someone, your own rented gun shoots you.(drawback)
The result is player influenced NPC space, which is the middle ground of transistion those corps and alliances to poor to own outposts could build up there influence in low sec regions.
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DMac88
Caldari
PROject Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 21:56:00 -
[14]
CCP have been looking at a few ways to encourage ppl to get into low sec a lil more. this idea is it!!!!!!!!! As said above, low security! If we want no security we'll go to null sec. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.11.28 22:05:00 -
[15]
So the end result is that people just come in larger gangs so that they can kill the lowsec police easier and/or kill their target and GTFO before the spacepolice arrive.
No. Lowsec is already incredibly safe compared to 0.0 due to sec status (gives you an idea of the most dangerous threats), sentry guns (no instalock inties on gates), and lack of bubbles.
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Waylan Yutani
Gallente
DEATHFUNK
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Posted - 2009.11.29 08:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: DMac88
CCP have been looking at a few ways to encourage ppl to get into low sec a lil more. this idea is it!!!!!!!!! As said above, low security! If we want no security we'll go to null sec.
People wont go to lowsec, because the benefits of going there doesnt outweight the hazzards. If ccp nerfed isk making in hi-sec (nerfed mining, mission running) peapol might take to low-sec. No need to make low-sec safer than it is.
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Kassidus
Gallente
Primatech Paper
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Posted - 2009.11.29 08:34:00 -
[17]
Maybee allow Concord to police some systems in lowsec but what if some systems were policed by the local NPC factions?
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Waylan Yutani
Gallente
DEATHFUNK
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Posted - 2009.11.29 09:02:00 -
[18]
read this - pro tips!
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Rookie_Lowsec_Survival_Guide
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Wen Jaibao
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.11.29 09:17:00 -
[19]
Low sec is boring and pointless. There's no point in it when you have Stain and Syndicate offering the same things as lowsec (npc stations, no sov mechanics) but without the limitations (gateguns, pointlessness). Ideas like this would make lowsec interesting and original.
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Corian Teranos
Caldari
Critical Mass Inc.
Symbiogenesis
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Posted - 2009.12.01 01:00:00 -
[20]
wow this topic was more popular than i thought it would be and noone has called anyone a carebear yet maby it is time to move this to the assembly hall
:Its all fun and games untill your logistics guy tries passive tanking his raven: |
Swiftgaze
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Posted - 2009.12.01 12:27:00 -
[21]
Yea lowsec should have LOWER protection than highsec instead of none at all.
Being absolutely unprotected made absolutely NO sense to me at all the first time I went there as a noob and it still doesnt.
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Lord Ozu
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Posted - 2009.12.01 12:40:00 -
[22]
carebears :P
low sec - lower security than high sec, you have gate guns and station guns. if you dont like and/or suck at pvp dont go to low sec in your combat ship, or train for recons. if you dont like the possibility of getting your hauler ganked dont go to low sec, or atleast learn to fly a blockade runner competantly, or train for a jump frieghter. if you want to mission for the high quality lvl4 low sec agents then learn to scan for combat probes - seriously its not hard. be vigilant. makes safe spots, make insta warp undock bookmarks.
oh ye, and stop being whiney carebears trying to turn every aspect of eve in a cotton ball wrapped baby of an isk making machine. you have your safe enough highsec, dont ruin it for the people that do like a little excitement by trying to make our lives as monotonous as yours.
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Shana Matika
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Posted - 2009.12.01 13:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lord Ozu
carebears :P
low sec - lower security than high sec, you have gate guns and station guns. if you dont like and/or suck at pvp dont go to low sec in your combat ship, or train for recons. if you dont like the possibility of getting your hauler ganked dont go to low sec, or atleast learn to fly a blockade runner competantly, or train for a jump frieghter. if you want to mission for the high quality lvl4 low sec agents then learn to scan for combat probes - seriously its not hard. be vigilant. makes safe spots, make insta warp undock bookmarks.
oh ye, and stop being whiney carebears trying to turn every aspect of eve in a cotton ball wrapped baby of an isk making machine. you have your safe enough highsec, dont ruin it for the people that do like a little excitement by trying to make our lives as monotonous as yours.
Stop beeing an sarcastic idiot.
As it is at the moment NOONE who yould avoid lowsec would ever dare to go there...Even removing L4 from higsec won't encourage anyone to move. As you said. PvP and PvE are two seperated worlds and who don't want to do PvP should not go there...unfortunatly you can't as some systems are just reachable by lowsec passages. For some other you have to go there.
As it's right now lowsec is not lowsec. Sec-Standing penalty is no penalty at all as some seems to ********** on their -10 and let's face it, this got nearly NO disadvantage for these morons. Either do something to react to criminal actions in these low security BUT EMPIRE Systems (slow reactiong Navy or Policeforces) or let the negative secstatus mean something like 100% increased taxrate, no bounty payment from ratkilling (Why should a state reward someone they don't like anyway), getting swarmed by milita forces when entering Empire (I mean Empire, not only highsec). Anything...as it's right now lowsec just mean one thing: Stupid wannabe pirates waiting for something to shoot that they don't need to fear. Must be great pvp fun to shoot a rookieship with 15 HAC's  - at least this is the only "PVP" I've seen so far "in the hood" aka lowsec...
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Lord Ozu
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Posted - 2009.12.01 13:44:00 -
[24]
1st. grow some balls and post with your main.
2nd. my post wasnt being sarcastic, and im far from an idiot.
its that kind of poor attitude and experience of low sec environments that creates a false image of what low sec life is about. your opnions are borne out of ignorance.
im a lousy pirate, i kill and pod, never ransom. im an outlaw. -9.8 i think, not that im bothered. just means i cant go to high sec. ive been a carebear with +5.0 and used many high qual agents to grind for isk. ive been part of a null sec alliance, nrds didnt suit me. ive been an industrialist, i still build. i can mine but choose not to because i find it mind numbingly boring. i mission now and then if things are quiet. but i prefer the excitement of having to be constantly aware of my environment, rather than being able to afk haul,mission or mine. knowing an outlaw, or a carebear, can probe my ship down and gank me. but then im not afraid of that. you stick to high sec where you belong and remain ignorant o/
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Alanea Winddancer
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Posted - 2009.12.01 13:53:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Alanea Winddancer on 01/12/2009 13:57:33
I never really understood low-sec and the complete lack of the law there as well to be honest. I'd still like a revamp of the whole sec status + concord into something more streamed.
I was thinking of something along the lines of this:
1.0-0.7 - Concord + local police forces. You are allowed to flee whenever you commit a crime and if you decide to fight, you can technically kill off the police (you'll still be royally screwed if you are overwhelmed of course). Downside is that with each kill, sec status crashes down like a rock. The presence of concord and police should be very high so that even a 10-15 sized BS fleet would have a hard time dealing with the law if things were to come down to that.
0.6-0.4 - local police forces only. Obviously you can roam around more freely as a pirate, but nevertheless, you will be hunted. Forces should still be formidable for a group of pirates in BS's but towards .4 and .3 it starts to ease down.
0.3-0.1 - limited police forces and small patrols only. Here it's safer to fly in smaller ships as a criminal since the law isn't so overwhelming that you need a huge tank in order to survive. For pirates, the police would be a bit like annoying rats.
To get it all working without involving extreme grieving without consequences from pirates:
Police/concord wrecks cannot be looted or salvaged in any way. Advanced self destruct mechanisms in order to protect technology or whatever can be used as an excuse.
Introduction of "crime points". This works differently from security status in that it is a permanent, unreversable value which can only go up (for now at least). It's basically your crime record:
Any crime that is committed in "high sec (1.0-0.7), including can flipping and whatnot else is a criminal offence. More so, any crime that is committed does not have any timebased flags anymore. Once you do a crime, it sticks. Permanently. Small crimes, again, like can flipping only generate a small amount of crime points whilst attacking someone without reason generates a lot more. If you blow someone up, the law won't rest until they've done the same to you since the crime points will have immediately gone past the safety line. On top of that they'll hunt you over and over until you pay a fine. So basically, if you are a newbie criminal that have just canflipped for the first time or perhaps stolen loot, the law won't blow you up but instead demand that you pay a fine if caught. However continuous canflipping will eventually result in the law just wanting to blow you up, because the crime points (or possibly sec status) will eventually stack up and reach the safety limit. Another consequence of being criminally active is that any lawful player anywhere may open fire on you without any repercussions since both will be flashy red to one another. Other criminals can also shoot at you at any given time obviously but they won't show up as flashy red though. Criminals killing criminals will have no consequences whatsoever however. Hey, a pirate's life is tough!
0.6-0.4 space would have no consequences for small crimes except for security loss. Attacking and killing other players for no reason would still draw the attention as in high sec though and generate crime points.
0.3-0.1 space would be pretty much as current low sec with the exception that it has light police patrols so the only way to generate crime points would be by blowing them up. Sec loss for blowing up players still apply like it does now.
Redeeming yourself from all crime should be possible by paying fines. Until that time, the law will hunt you regardless of anything. However, if you redeem yourself by paying the fines, you are cleared - but you keep the crime points. Convert back to a life of crime, regardless of the severity and you will end up being forced to pay for the committed crime plus 50% of of all previous crimes. This basically makes it hard for players to jump back and forth with the law.
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Iamsamsara
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Posted - 2009.12.01 14:41:00 -
[26]
Low-sec, LOW SECURITY. Gate Guns, Station Guns, Global Criminal Timers. Still some security. You have none of those things in Null-sec. You have more in High Sec. I think that the 3 areas are very balanced as is. Anyone with half a brain a)checks intel channels for camps, and avoids jumping into one from hi-sec, b) uses directional scanner every few seconds if local is busy, and c) pays attention to local count and their sec status and standings.
/disagree with OP
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.01 15:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Corian Teranos
Low sec has always tried to be slightly safer than null sec but has inevitably failed miserably and in fact due to a abundance of stations and complete lack of concord presence it is a lot easier to assemble and manage a gank fleet without having to worry about drawing the attention of one of the larger pvp corps to bring down the hammer and contain the problem. This results in an overabundance of Greifers, People who donĘt care about piracy as a living but exist only to pray on newcomers. I propose that the developers look into installing a special low sec version of concord that would function as a deterrent, while at the same time contain a large number of dirty/crooked cops that are bribable and killable.
Message from Shady Police Captain:
You have violated the law but our sensors detect you have a large cache of Crash in your hold I guess I could look the other way this one time for say + of your stock or perhaps 5million isk?
Lowsec police ships would have normal npc stats similar to level 4 mission rats and use a sleeper like AI. This assures that should you not wish to bribe your way out you may be able to tank or kill the police provided you have the skills. Fighting the police will lead to escalation but after you have killed enough they will cut their losses and eventually give up. This and jamming from the police may give any captured ship a slight chance to warp away adding to a slightly increased safety factor.
I would also like to see corporate level payoffs for large sums of money corporations can buy off the police in a system where they have an office, resulting in complete immunity as well as another isk sink.
I am asking for this system not to make lowsec care bear friendly but to cut down on Greifers Of Opportunity. And leave the piracy to people who are truly into pvp and are willing to expend the resources that real life criminal organizations use to skirt above the law.
This promotes blobbing, is that really what you want?
This also promotes use of bigger ships to tank/gank police in addition to players, is that really good?
Your idea is totally not supported.
Aslo, have you really spent lots of time in low sec? I don't see grifers there as you describe.
I see large pirate orgs, sure (well, camping orgs...) and some romaing gangs.
Just man up and be ready to fight or flight. Play it smart and low sec is no real risk.
Any police thing in low sec will make it more carebear even if you say it won't.
The huge nerf to sec stat last year was hard enough, and if you really want more players here, reverse this stupid change in sec hit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
ckinoutdahoe
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:08:00 -
[28]
It seems the empire carebears dont have enough space to play with......too bad. CCP gives you plenty of rocks to pound. Further more you have free reign of all of the precious .5 to 1.0 space.
What you need to know is that low sec is designed for not just isk churning bears, but was designed for groups of like minded people...... and I dont mean just pirates.
You can be an indy corp or alliance that has enough to take on minor threats. Threats range from an annoyance to you are going to get pew pewed everyday. The reason for this is not much unlike 0.0 .......But it makes a player think about more than just themselves, or teaches them they MUST step up to the plate and learn to PvP or just not go to unsafe areas.
You know where low sec is. There are plenty of maps showing you were they are. You are told when you are about to enter a potentially unsafe area... So if you cant hang dont afk auto thinking things are are just peachy.
Do you bears even think, why do small groups hang in low sec??? think for 1 minute!! The BAD Boys you call pirates are there because A) its thier home B) there are smaller than the major alliances with 3000 members. C) they are willing to take the sec hits to keep thier space safe.
So the next time you see a person that has negative sec statis you have to wonder why its that way....... Its because you are in someone home space.
Stop whining to CCP. Get you friends together if you have any. Come to low sec and play...if not you surely have no business there and absolutely dont belong in anything close to Null sec or Worm Holes.
Have a great day and fly safe. Yarr
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Martimus28
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shana Matika
Originally by: Lord Ozu
carebears :P
low sec - lower security than high sec, you have gate guns and station guns. if you dont like and/or suck at pvp dont go to low sec in your combat ship, or train for recons. if you dont like the possibility of getting your hauler ganked dont go to low sec, or atleast learn to fly a blockade runner competantly, or train for a jump frieghter. if you want to mission for the high quality lvl4 low sec agents then learn to scan for combat probes - seriously its not hard. be vigilant. makes safe spots, make insta warp undock bookmarks.
oh ye, and stop being whiney carebears trying to turn every aspect of eve in a cotton ball wrapped baby of an isk making machine. you have your safe enough highsec, dont ruin it for the people that do like a little excitement by trying to make our lives as monotonous as yours.
Stop beeing an sarcastic idiot.
As it is at the moment NOONE who yould avoid lowsec would ever dare to go there...Even removing L4 from higsec won't encourage anyone to move. As you said. PvP and PvE are two seperated worlds and who don't want to do PvP should not go there...unfortunatly you can't as some systems are just reachable by lowsec passages. For some other you have to go there.
As it's right now lowsec is not lowsec. Sec-Standing penalty is no penalty at all as some seems to ********** on their -10 and let's face it, this got nearly NO disadvantage for these morons. Either do something to react to criminal actions in these low security BUT EMPIRE Systems (slow reactiong Navy or Policeforces) or let the negative secstatus mean something like 100% increased taxrate, no bounty payment from ratkilling (Why should a state reward someone they don't like anyway), getting swarmed by milita forces when entering Empire (I mean Empire, not only highsec). Anything...as it's right now lowsec just mean one thing: Stupid wannabe pirates waiting for something to shoot that they don't need to fear. Must be great pvp fun to shoot a rookieship with 15 HAC's - at least this is the only "PVP" I've seen so far "in the hood" aka lowsec...
Stop being a sarcastic idiot.
I have a -6.2 security status, and I can tell you it is a pain in the buttocks. I can't go into Hig-sec to mission, so I have no real source of income. Gate guns keep you from going after the little fish, as it isn't worth it to kill that little T1 Frig for 15 minutes of aggro. If you are just passing through, you are usually pretty safe in any frigate, covert-ops, or a blockade runner. There are ways of getting you, but they are complicated and require larger teams and coordination to keep those fast locking ships alive under the 352DPS of gate guns. Plus HAC's die horrible deaths to gate guns against anything with a tank, so your analogy of HAC's picking on newbs isn't very common for those of us that actually live in low security space. Gangs regularly roam many areas of low sec. You end up with a lot of small fleet battles, where both sides have around 20 ships, so your point that the only PvP is in griefing is incorrect (I know I rarely grief, since there are rarely people to grief).
I really don't feel like arguing with you, since you obviously don't have enough experience in Low Security space to know what it is actually like. I like it because it is safe to go around in small ships, without worrying about bubbles or interceptors on gates. Your pod is generally safe, for the above reasons, which means you can use expensive implants. And gateguns keep you honest, so you you always have that extra help if you get into a fight you don't want to get into. And it gives you that opportunity to engage in PvP, which is what keeps me playing the game. (PvE is rather boring and monotonous after any period of time.)
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Silivrenion
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Posted - 2009.12.01 22:04:00 -
[30]
+1
The idea is great!
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