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Garvi
Stargate SG-1
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.11.26 14:47:00 -
[1]
I though i totally understood it but seems i dont, and people keep giveing me contradictory answers.
For example, armor hardeners from same type incur in penalty BUT, my question is, Do modules likeEnergized Adaptive Nano Membrane II(20% resistance to ALL damage types) mixed with thermal armor hardener provoke penalty? i thought it didnt..
all damage resistance plating + specific armor hardener = penalty?
damage control + all damage energized plating = penalty?
specific resistance plating + specific armor hardener = penalty?
etc...
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Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.26 15:25:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Garvi
all damage resistance plating + specific armor hardener = penalty? Yes
damage control + all damage energized plating = penalty? No
specific resistance plating + specific armor hardener = penalty? Yes
Ship bonuses and Damage Controls do not suffer stacking penalties. Otherwise, it doesn't matter where the resistance comes from (module, rig, gang bonus, etc) it will suffer stacking penalties.
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Garvi
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.11.26 23:05:00 -
[3]
mmmmm what a deception..even the passive ones + the active ones?
so..the fiting 4 armor hardeners (2 thermal+ 2 kinetics for example) + nano plating (+20% for all damage types) for level 4 misions stack too many penalties, doesnt it?
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.11.27 01:09:00 -
[4]
The nano membrane, in that example, will have stacking penalties for the two types you have hardeners for. It will give the full 20% for the other two types. Say you're using Explosive and Thermal hardeners, plus one EANM. You'll get the full 20% from the EANM for Kinetic and EM damage, but reduced against Explosive and Thermal damage.
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Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2009.11.27 01:24:00 -
[5]
Easiest way to wrap your head around this one:
Stacking penalties are based on the attribute not the module. Multiple modules that change the same attribute are penalized (from most effective to least effective; in this example the EANM gets hit while the active hardeners should still grant full bonus).
There's quite a debate as to whether adding a fourth mod that changes the same attribute could possibly be worth it (especially damage mods). It can be but isn't always. If optimizing an attribute, the third is almost always worth it.
Rigs are also stacking penalized along side modules, so keep that in mind.
So for example, when I omnitank a shield boat I'll often try to squeeze on an invul and either an EM hardener or anti-EM rig. The invul won't add as much to EM resistance as a result but the overall fit will still have more resistance to it than before and will add quite a bit of resistance to the other damage types as well.
Now I'm probably rambling. It's turkey day, wine is flowing, and I'm exhausted already.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.27 01:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Future Mutant on 27/11/2009 01:31:33
There are two types of "penalties" that apply to resists.
The first is the normal stacking penalty. Use two or more of the same type of mod and they are stacking penalized.(with the exception of damage control units)
The second type is a "resist" penalty. The easiest explaination i can give is this. You have 50% base em shield resists. You put on an em passive harderer- say the bonus is 40% em resists. You do not get 50+40 for a 90% resist. instead you get .5(40) + 50 or 70% resists for em. (the .5 being the decimal equivalent of 100% (total max resist possible)- 50% (ship base resists))
Because your base resist is already at 50- the modules resist bonus is effectively cut in half.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.27 01:35:00 -
[7]
There are two types of "penalties" that apply to resists.
The first is the normal stacking penalty. Use two or more of a module/rig with the same type of bonus and they are stacking penalized.(with the exception of damage control units)
The second type is a "resist" penalty. The easiest explaination i can give is this. You have 50% base em shield resists. You put on an em passive harderer- say the bonus is 40% em resists. You do not get 50+40 for a 90% resist. instead you get .5(40) + 50 or 70% resists for em. (the .5 being the decimal equivalent of 100% (total max resist possible)- 50% (ship base resists))
Because your base resist is already at 50- the modules resist bonus is effectively cut in half.
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Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.27 04:16:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ki Tarra on 27/11/2009 04:21:34
Originally by: Future Mutant
The second type is a "resist" penalty. The easiest explaination i can give is this. You have 50% base em shield resists. You put on an em passive harderer- say the bonus is 40% em resists. You do not get 50+40 for a 90% resist. instead you get .5(40) + 50 or 70% resists for em. (the .5 being the decimal equivalent of 100% (total max resist possible)- 50% (ship base resists))
Because your base resist is already at 50- the modules resist bonus is effectively cut in half.
This is not a stacking penalty. The modules effect is not reduced in half. You get the full effect of the first module regardless of your base resistances. It is just an effect of the way that resistances are displayed.
A 50% resistance will reduce your incoming damage by half regardless of what your base resistances are. If your base resistance was 40% halving the incoming damage would mean you take 30% of the damage instead of the original 60% of damage you would have taken without the module.
If you look at the damage you are taking instead of the damage you are avoiding it is obvious that there is no stacking penalty.
This is the way that resistances are multiplied together when stacking penalities do not apply. For example: 50% base resistance * 25% ship bonus resistance * 15% damage control resistance * 55% active hardener resistance. = 0.5 * 0.75 * 0.85 * 0.45 = 0.14 damage multiplier = 86% resistance.
Without stacking penalties, each bonus reduces damage by its full multiplier. Stacking penalties reduce the multiplier as well as the appearent change to resistances.
Stacking penalties means that adding another active hardener only gives you a ~47% damage reduction instead of 55%. A third would only give ~31% damage reduction. Originally by: Garvi
mmmmm what a deception..even the passive ones + the active ones?
so..the fiting 4 armor hardeners (2 thermal+ 2 kinetics for example) + nano plating (+20% for all damage types) for level 4 misions stack too many penalties, doesnt it?
Depending on your level of Armor Compensation skills, a Damage Control II might be a better choice than an EANM because it does not suffer from stacking penalties.
Anyways, you are only at your third hardener (count thermal seperate from kinetic) so stacking penalties are not too bad. But it is up to you to figure out if you would be better off with a DC, EANM, Active hardener, capacitor relay, or maybe a damage mod. There are lots of things you could use that slot for.
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Garvi
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.11.27 10:03:00 -
[9]
i see...
Does the EFT program take in account the penalty formulas?
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Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.27 15:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Garvi
Does the EFT program take in account the penalty formulas?
Yes
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