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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.03 17:47:00 -
[1]
It seems to me that Capacitor Flux Coils are inferior in every situation possible compared to Power Diagnostic Systems.
Let us examine the basic stats of both of the modules:
Power Diagnostic System II:
Primary Skill Requirement: Energy Upgrades IV
Fitting Requirement: 20tf CPU
Bonus:
+5% Powergrid Output
+5% Shield Capacity
+8.5% Shield Recharge Rate
+5% Capacitor Capacity
+8.5 Capacitor Recharge Rate
Capacitor Flux Coil II:
Primary Skill Requirement: Energy Upgrades IV
Fitting Requirement: 22tf CPU
Bonus:
-10% Capacitor Capacity
+26% Capacitor Recharge Rate
Since Capacitor Flux Coil's strengths are in the capacitor recharge rate bonus, let us compare this bonus to that of the Power Diagnostic System:
Flux Coil:
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = (Old Capacitor Recharge Rate) * (Capacitor Capacity Bonus) * (Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus)
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = 100% * 90% * 126%
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = 113.4%
Basically, Flux Coils grant a 13.4% increase in capacitor recharge rate.
Power Diagnostic System:
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = (Old Capacitor Recharge Rate) * (Capacitor Capacity Bonus) * (Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus)
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = 100% * 105% * 108.5%
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = 113.925%
Power Diagnostic Systems grant a 13.925% increase in capacitor recharge rate.
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As you can see above, Power Diagnostic Systems are far more useful than Capacitor Flux Coils in any given situation. They provide more powergrid, more shields and shield recharge, more capacitor capacity and a better capacitor recharge speed than Capacitor Flux Coils. They are also less CPU intensive.
So why are people still fitting them on mission shield tanks?
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.03 17:51:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 03/12/2009 17:51:51
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 03/12/2009 17:50:49
 Originally by: James Tritanius
So why are people still fitting them on mission shield tanks?
Because they provide more cap recharge. ;)
Your math is a bit off.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Erim Solfara
Amarr
House of Solfara
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Posted - 2009.12.03 17:51:00 -
[3]
This is a very good point, well laid out.
Assuming your numbers are right, that's a fairly large oversight :P
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Dr Cedric
Caldari
Orbital Industry and Research.
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Posted - 2009.12.03 17:51:00 -
[4]
I think the reason that people use them is for the change in overall capacitor recharge. Mission runners are not worried about how much cap they have, they are worried about how long they can run a shield booster/armor repairer for a sustained period of time. In every circumstance, CPRII's will give you a better overall cap recharge rate, and therefore prolong the period of time you can perma-run a booster/repairer.
If you doubt it, go to EFT and play around w/ a Large Shield Booster on a Raven. Use the CPRII's vs the PDU and see what happens!
Dr Cedric
CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR- |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.03 17:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: James Tritanius
As you can see above, Power Diagnostic Systems are far more useful than Capacitor Flux Coils in any given situation.
I bet you a billion ISK they're not.
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Axebreaker Jones
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Posted - 2009.12.03 17:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dr Cedric
I think the reason that people use them is for the change in overall capacitor recharge. Mission runners are not worried about how much cap they have, they are worried about how long they can run a shield booster/armor repairer for a sustained period of time. In every circumstance, CPRII's will give you a better overall cap recharge rate, and therefore prolong the period of time you can perma-run a booster/repairer.
If you doubt it, go to EFT and play around w/ a Large Shield Booster on a Raven. Use the CPRII's vs the PDU and see what happens!
OP is not talking about CPR's but CFC's
however op's math is still off, and he's missing stuff like the penalty to max cap beeing stacking penalized but the recharge bonus not so
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.03 18:12:00 -
[7]
Look at peak recharge. Let's assume 2.4x base
1000 cap
1000 recharge
2.4 cap/s
Power diag
1050 cap
915 recharge
2.75 cap/s
Cap flux
900 cap
740 recharge
2.92 cap/s
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.03 18:23:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 03/12/2009 18:23:36
Here's where your math is off. Peak recharge for cap uses the same formula as shield tanking. (Rough formula: Peak Recharge = 2.4 * Maximum Cap / Recharge Time) Let's use base stats for the Phoon. 5000 Base Cap, with 1087s recharge time gives us: 11 cap/s peak recharge.
Using a single PDS II we get: 5250 Cap, 994.605s Recharge. Peak recharge = 12.66 cap/s
Using a single Cap Flux Coil we get: 4500 Base Cap, 804.38s Recharge. Peak recharge = 13.43 cap/s
The Cap Flux Coil is better (at least for peak cap recharge). I'd argue the PDS II is more useful overall, however...
ED: Wet Ferret beat me to it.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.03 19:17:00 -
[9]
My math is not off given my initial formulae.
However, it seems that we are operating on different assumptions. I had assumed the "Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus: 26%" meant +26% towards capacity recharge speed. However, your calculations assume the "Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus: 26%" meant -26% capacitor recharge time.
If we use your assumptions, the capacitor recharge bonus for a Capacitor Flux Coil will be:
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = 100% * 90% / 74%
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = 121.62%
If that is the case, 21.62% is vastly superior than 13.925% offered by PDS, and Flux Coils are useful after all.
Can someone confirm (in game) that "Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus: 26%" means -26% Capacitor Recharge Time?
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.12.03 19:22:00 -
[10]
Everything works that way. Shield recharge, cap recharge, even rate of fire is based on a time interval. Any ship that gives 5% per level to rate of fire is actually giving you a 5% per level reduction in the time between shots.
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Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.03 20:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: James Tritanius
My math is not off given my initial formulae.
However, it seems that we are operating on different assumptions. I had assumed the "Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus: 26%" meant +26% towards capacity recharge speed. However, your calculations assume the "Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus: 26%" meant -26% capacitor recharge time.
If we use your assumptions, the capacitor recharge bonus for a Capacitor Flux Coil will be:
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = 100% * 90% / 74%
(New Capacitor Recharge Rate) = 121.62%
If that is the case, 21.62% is vastly superior than 13.925% offered by PDS, and Flux Coils are useful after all.
Can someone confirm (in game) that "Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus: 26%" means -26% Capacitor Recharge Time?
Bring up your fitting screen. Note the amount of cap and the recharge time
Fit a CFC. Note the new amounts.
BTW CFCs are pretty terrible really. You're correct that a PDS is better in most situations, and a Capacitor Power Relay is just plain better if you're armour tanking... but there are some where the CFC is marginally better. For instance a capital ship in travel fit, where cap recharge rate > all.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.03 20:41:00 -
[12]
Indeed. The CFC reduces capacitor recharge time.
However, I would like to say the game UI is very misleading. The bonus labels are not standardized.
Capacitor Control Circuit rigs label their bonuses as "Cap Recharge Time Reduction: -15%" while cap modules label their bonuses as "Capacitor Recharge Rate Bonus: x%" when in effect both of the labels mean exactly the same thing.
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Dr Cedric
Caldari
Orbital Industry and Research.
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Posted - 2009.12.03 21:05:00 -
[13]
My apologies for the CPRII misprint above.
I extensively use CFC (Capacitor Flux Coil) for my mission Rattlesnake...or I should say I used to before Dominion, thats another post...
To the point, with some numbers:
I'd give numbers from in-game, but I'm at work so here is what EFT tells me (all lvl 5 skills).
In a Raven with no mods fitted, I get approximately 19.2 cap/second as a base cap recharge.
When I plug in a PDU, I go up to +22 cap/second.
When I plug in a single CFC i get +23.3 cap/second.
Now, If I'm trying to get enough cap recharge per second to offset the -36 cap/second usage from my Large
shiled booster, I need to get the best cap recharge rate that I can. In this case, 4 CFC's will get me up to 41.5 cap/second recharge, enough to cover the -36 cap/second that my Large sheild booster is using. If I tried to do that with PDU's, I'd have to fit 5 and then I'd only be at +38.5 cap/second.
Certainly we can take into account the overall sheild efficiency boost that you get from using the PDU, but if we look at just capacitor recharge, the Flux coil will win out. Hope this makes a bit more sense.
Dr Cedric
CEO Orbital Industry and Research -OIR- |
Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.12.04 02:44:00 -
[14]
For a long time I was told that CFCs are better than PDSs, but I was hesitant to use them b/c of the cap capacity hit.
Then I tried them, and have to say they provide for more overall cap usage with the higher recharge rate. Especially if you keep your cap between 20-50%, the cap recharges sooooo ****ing fast.
It is simple really.
Faster recharge = more available cap over time.
PDSs may look good on EFT, but in game CFCs trump them.
Originally by: Doc Robertson
...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.12.04 03:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dacryphile
PDSs may look good on EFT, but in game CFCs trump them.
I *so* disagree with that. I find that CFCs "look good" in EFT but PDUs actually work in game. The *ONLY* time I would agree you should use a CFC is if it is *LITERALLY* the difference between a permarun setup and not.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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