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SickSeven
Nova Aquilae
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Posted - 2009.12.03 21:28:00 -
[1]
Devs, please tell me why you nerfed the Naglfar again??? It was bloody fixed and could actually fill a role and be competitive in certain areas and then you go and switch it's bonuses back? WTF??????????
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Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.12.03 21:44:00 -
[2]
CaldariCP always disliked the Minmatar
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.03 23:00:00 -
[3]
cause thx to the torpedo changes it would have became much to powerful and was prenerfed to insure it didn't become a 'monster' ------------------------------
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.12.03 23:26:00 -
[4]
It doesnt use cap to fire its guns, it might have less cap than the other dreads, but capless guns are too big an advantage.
It would have been a monster in dominion. |
LIFEOFAGONY
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Posted - 2009.12.04 00:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Xennith It doesnt use cap to fire its guns, it might have less cap than the other dreads, but capless guns are too big an advantage.
It would have been a monster in dominion.
True.
But the fact remain that they nerfed it so much that now it's not even near the DPS of the other's dread. Unless, of course, you put 3x gryostabiliser and 3x ballistic control system which make him about the others dread but you have to sacrifice your Damage control II, which is juste ******ed.
Also, you need to take in consideration the trainning time to be efficent with a Naglfar. With the new capital cruise missile, we need to train cruise misille to V which is almost useless for all other non-capital ship. Also,you need to train for your Capital projectile and your capital torpedoes (don't forget the new Capital cruise misille). You also need for the capital in general be ableto capital shield and armor tank.
That make 2 tanking systems, 3 weapons system to train for using this ship. I am not, as far Iam concerned, mad because I need to train more skill to be efficient with my Naglfar. Some folks have calculated that the Naglfar would have 800-1000 dpsless than the ebst DPS dread (Revelation)
I just think it will be appropriate to have a Naglfar that is able to this job as good as the others Dread.
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BanMeAgainPlz
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Posted - 2009.12.04 00:54:00 -
[6]
ALL HAIL THE RETURN OF THE NAGLFAIL!
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Ernst Ra'Kun
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Posted - 2009.12.04 02:34:00 -
[7]
Hmmm.. theres a few threads abt this matter. There's one in the Assembly Hall where theyre trying to get some support for CSM to get the naglfar changed. If I heard correctly, thats initially how the nag got its (short-live though it maybe) boost in Apocrypha, though the wait was very long I was told.
I am merely a disgruntled pilot who now likely have to put off my plans to train for the naglfar (cross training amarr now!), but i think there is something to be said about a ship that requires so much training yet largely is sub par compared to the rest. Surely a dread as unique to have ... 3 weapon training required, and.. maybe, 2 tanking skills trained, should have something special it can go for, aside from that pretty vertical hull... I heard abt the 'cap-less' argument before, but also some countered that with the 'reload time' argument.
I'm just going to wait and see how things turn up, maybe someone smarter than I can see how this ship can function beautifully with what its given...though i'd likely agree/support any effort to change the nag, seeing as most of skills are along minmatar line anyhow.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2009.12.04 03:16:00 -
[8]
This Naglfar is still better then pre-buff Naglrofl as we still have the additional mid slot. Though now you have to train for a 3rd capital weapon system.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.12.04 03:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xennith It doesnt use cap to fire its guns, it might have less cap than the other dreads, but capless guns are too big an advantage.
It would have been a monster in dominion.
no.
more like "oh hey, proj changes made the naglfar a monster, so we're nerfing it to a state worse than before the boost.
also if you still have problems with it, just slam a target painter in the meds to shoot stuff with the now-bonused citadel torps or just use citadel cruise for ****-all damage.
-nohz" ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
SickSeven
Nova Aquilae
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Posted - 2009.12.04 10:29:00 -
[10]
Ok, Torps got a buff. But they have a range of less than 40km. So now, all Nag pilots need to dedicate the better part of a month (22days for me) to train cruise missle V to fit for any battle greater than spitting distance. And the damage is pathetic.
I truly cannot comprehend the logic path the Devs used here. It took years and years to finally get it through their heads that the Naglfail was broken. then, OMG a miracle they boosted it! And it worked! But now, it more f*cked up than before! The thought process must have been like this: "Hmmm, well apparently our fix was too good because people are actually excited about the Naglfail now. Well what was the problem before?... Hmmm, longer training time than the other dreads and less effectiveness in all areas right? Ok ok, I got it! Lets give them another weapon system to increase the ships already overpowered diversity, and let's undo the Projectile changes back to the way they were because not using capacitor is bonus enough, duh. Yeah, more training time and increased 'diversity'(aka sh!t all for usefullness). Thats what they really wanted right?"
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.04 14:30:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 04/12/2009 14:30:50 I have to preface everything I'm saying here with the fact that I'm not a Nag pilot. But it was on my training schedule for January, and I've been EFT jockeying with it since it was fixed, for whatever that's worth.
The ship is just a mess now. I was having trouble finding a situation where it is ever worth equipping a gyrostabilizer on a long-range setup (BCSs always offer a larger increase)...except for the fact that long-range with missiles suck. Long-range with 4x Gyros, the missile DPS was still greater than the projectile DPS.
Much like the Phoon, focusing on one weapon or the other gives the greatest benefit in the end, except the bonuses are so lopsided that focusing on missiles will always provide a better result. And cap missiles appear to have been nerfed into oblivion.
It looks like the Nag will be required to shoot at two targets again (called primary with turrets and secondary with missiles), doing crap damage to either.
I guess I'm just voicing my frustration. I was trying to find a silver lining here, but it doesn't seem possible to me to come up with anything useful...if anyone has any better ideas, it'd be nice to hear them.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.04 14:37:00 -
[12]
Its not frustration. its simple fact hta it was a STUPID change by CCP, probably comming from someone completely drunk that dreams about how capital fights are without having any idea on reality.
Naglfar needs at LEAST its original 7.5% rof bonus back.
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Adeline Grey
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:36:00 -
[13]
Nozh plays Amarr. He screwed it up.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:47:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 04/12/2009 18:46:55 Because of Falcon
(Or just Nozh)
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Benco97
Gallente Shadow Veil Industrial
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:48:00 -
[15]
What's this? Four ships that are all supposed to do the same job but one of them is worse than the others "Just because"?
Now, where have I heard that before... ______________________________________________
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Solid Star This Naglfar is still better then pre-buff Naglrofl as we still have the additional mid slot. Though now you have to train for a 3rd capital weapon system.
which will be used to fit a target painter!11one
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
jamaican herbs
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Posted - 2009.12.04 23:16:00 -
[17]
cos it's freaking
v e r t i c a l
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Zeerover
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2009.12.04 23:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Benco97 What's this? Four ships that are all supposed to do the same job but one of them is worse than the others "Just because"?
Now, where have I heard that before...
Hey hey, It's not worse than all of them. Phoenix got shafted pretty hard as well (missiles explosion borked, the "use target painters excuse", 2nd weapon system, still horrible flight time, etc.), and the Moros lost some of it's novelty, though still better than the other two.
A proper whine would be: "why does the Revelation beat all other dreads like they're it's red headed stepchild?"
But then again what more could be expect from the dev behind the "well balanced " speed nerf, missile nerf and T3 ships?
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 11:11:00 -
[19]
Why canŠt people just accept the fact that the Naglfar is based on a split weapon system, and as such have bonusses to both launchers and guns?
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Spaztick
Terminal Impact Kairakau
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Posted - 2009.12.05 13:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Solid Star This Naglfar is still better then pre-buff Naglrofl as we still have the additional mid slot. Though now you have to train for a 3rd capital weapon system.
Except it's not, it's in fact worse because they replaced the RoF bonus with a damage one.
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SickSeven
Nova Aquilae
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Posted - 2009.12.05 17:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n Why canŠt people just accept the fact that the Naglfar is based on a split weapon system, and as such have bonusses to both launchers and guns?
So what your saying is we should just accept the failness of the Naglfar because it's original implementation just doesn't compare to it's rivals now?
You must fly Amarr too. Are you Nozh's alt?
If it's going to have split bonuses then that's fine, but make it competitive, it is NOT, and I say 'NOT' with extreme emphasis, it is NOT comeptetive.
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 21:51:00 -
[22]
I find this lack of respect from CCP Disturbing...
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.05 21:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lt Forge CaldariCP always disliked the Minmatar
This is why the phoenix is the best dread in most situations.... Nerf caldari now!!!
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techzer0
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: jamaican herbs cos it's freaking
v e r t i c a l
Same reason the Myrmidon sucks..
Yeah.. my alt never seems to get closer to flying a Naglfar effectively... always some other skill I need to add to my plan, just when I think it's getting close to being good. ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:04:00 -
[25]
because now you can use torpedoes and target painters! You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.06 08:40:00 -
[26]
I'm on it.
If thats any consolidation
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2009.12.06 13:18:00 -
[27]
While you at it fix the phoenix now pretty much half the capital ship line up is a mess now. The amarr focus is not normal with Moros being still competitive but the Phoenix and Nag are really useless. Add to it the mothership mess...
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 15:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SickSeven
Originally by: Ap0ll0n Why canŠt people just accept the fact that the Naglfar is based on a split weapon system, and as such have bonusses to both launchers and guns?
So what your saying is we should just accept the failness of the Naglfar because it's original implementation just doesn't compare to it's rivals now?
You must fly Amarr too. Are you Nozh's alt?
If it's going to have split bonuses then that's fine, but make it competitive, it is NOT, and I say 'NOT' with extreme emphasis, it is NOT comeptetive.
I fly Moros.. And why does it not compare to other dreads?
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.06 15:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sokratesz I'm on it.
If thats any consolidation
That actually is comforting. CSM made the fix happen last time. Here's hoping you guys can make it stick.
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SickSeven
Nova Aquilae
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sokratesz I'm on it.
If thats any consolidation
Yes actually it is. Please keep us updated.
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