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Flora Sma	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:43:00 - [1] I've got a problem with Vagabonds - I find that when flown safely they put out mediocre damage. Since they are generally popular ships I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Axiom 1: Vagas should use autocannons. Axiom 2: A webbed vaga is a dead vaga. Assuming a fairly even fight I generally try to keep my vaga at least 15km away from hostiles to avoid being webbed. The optimal range of the autocannons is between 2-5km depending on ammo, with a falloff of 14-17km depending on skills. If my target is at 15km I'm I can do 60% of maximum DPS, which is OK... but if it is a 20km I'm down to about 40% and at 30km I'm hardly doing any damage. Any thoughts?
Asuka Smith Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:48:00 - [2] With 2x tracking enhancers you for 75% of your damage at 20km.
Aunt Red	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:50:00 - [3] Primary focus of Vaga isn¦t to do damage, really. More for tackle and wittling someone down/wait for real DPS. Cruisers and frigs will drop very fast anyway. Anything bigger than a cruiser, and you¦ll have to be careful.
LiNuXb0y Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.12.08 11:54:00 - [4] Thats very low falloff for a vaga, mine has an optimal of 2.8 and falloff of 27, so your fighting always at the max of your falloff, where as im never really above 60%. Are you useing barrage? emp may give better eft numbers but barrage is better in game. And no i dont think a webbed vaga is a dead vaga as if its only 1, sometimes even 2 webs you can still burn out of the web range, however a scramed vaga is often dead vaga
THEDON1 Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:00:00 - [5] the problem is ur flying it 'safe' It's a vagabond dude fly it like u stole it ! :) and obbiusly don't get web n tackled unless u know there going to pop fast. They excell at killing frigate tacklers I've found so u can use this to mwd away from a gate get the support frigs to chase you and pop them infront there buddies. takes skill and balls to pull it off but is fun as hell if u can manage it and find the right fleet to fight. U can pop most npcers on belts as well so u can get in closer to them so increase your dps.
King Rothgar Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2009.12.08 13:22:00 - [6] You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all. Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming. -----------------------------------------------------
Studley Goodfk	Posted - 2009.12.08 13:45:00 - [7] Originally by: King Rothgar ... The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. ... So every combatant that used guerilla tactics in the whole history of warfare has been a coward? From the Americans in the War of Independence, to the Boers, to the Greek and French Resistances in WW2 and the Vietnamese in the 60s all the way through to the current conflicts? Just because someone doesn't stand toe to toe and fight against an opponent they would be unable to beat doesn't make them cowards - it makes them smart. The ship is designed to be a guerilla warfare ship. It gets in quick, delivers a killing blow to those that it can and GTFO before the big guns turn up. If no support is in reserve then it is capable of whittling down even strong opponents who do not know how to deal with it. You may have no respect for Vagas and their pilots, then by all means kill all of them that you can. Don't be surprised to find that, just occasionally, you find yourself on the losing side of one. Call him a coward in Local chat and listen to the howls of laughter. :)
Kenpotchi	Posted - 2009.12.08 14:09:00 - [8] Edited by: Kenpotchi on 08/12/2009 14:16:03 [Vagabond, New Setup 1] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Domination Warp Disruptor Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 This is the set up that I run. Just my preference. You can add more faction bling if you'd like. If i were to I would add faction gyros and faction MWD. About 407 realistic DPS. 516 EFT DPS with out implants. 32k EHP. Speed of 2500. Really dosent matter how long the cap lasts b/c your suppose to pulse you MWD any way. The neut is for pesky tackelers that shut off the MWD.
Shady Salesman	Posted - 2009.12.08 14:15:00 - [9] Edited by: Shady Salesman on 08/12/2009 14:15:18 Originally by: King Rothgar You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all. Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1215816
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.08 14:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Studley Goodfk So every combatant that used guerilla tactics in the whole history of warfare has been a coward? Right. "Coward" is used most often by a losing force that cannot adapt to their enemy's tactics.

AZN Steve Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.08 14:29:00 - [11] Originally by: King Rothgar You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all. Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming. you're an idiot if you think vaga can't kill anything above a hauler or a t1 frig . dps isnt much lower than that of a hurricane and as for the coward's pvp ship . maybe you should actually fly one and see how much of a coward you need to be to jump into a gatecamp and pretty much kill everything solo using TACTICS , instead of pressing F1 and see who wins . OT : you need more falloff and probably a better fit . Falloff post-dominion should be around 40km with barrage
Psiri	Posted - 2009.12.08 15:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Psiri on 08/12/2009 15:15:59 I've seen a select few Vagabond pilots do amazing things, the vast majority however would be far better off flying something else. I think that it can truly be a rewarding ship to fly, but mastering it would probably run you more Vagabonds than what you'd care to pay for. It's also one of those ships where a faction point seems to be in order.
Grarr Wrexx	Posted - 2009.12.08 15:16:00 - [13] Originally by: King Rothgar You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all. Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming. Yep, and overtanked lowsec abaddons aren't coward ships, right?
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.12.08 15:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Aunt Red Primary focus of Vaga isn¦t to do damage, really. More for tackle and wittling someone down/wait for real DPS. Cruisers and frigs will drop very fast anyway. Anything bigger than a cruiser, and you¦ll have to be careful. Violating this expectation is what makes flying a high DPS high EHP vaga a blast. My setup isn't the fastest, but puts out ~500 DPS with RF fusion and has 37k EHP + 9 minutes of neuting. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.12.08 18:12:00 - [15] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 08/12/2009 18:13:42 Originally by: Seriously Bored Right. "Coward" is used most often by a losing force that cannot adapt to their enemy's tactics. Against a stupid opponent, using your wits could be seen as cowardice. Its the one weapon they have no defense against afterall. On a slightly related note, I have way more respect for pilots flying their 200mill HACs in a fleet battle where one single mistake means they are done for, compared to the typical BS pilots safely sitting in their RR circle ready to deagress and dock / jump.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Studley Goodfk Originally by: King Rothgar ... The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. ... So every combatant that used guerilla tactics in the whole history of warfare has been a coward? From the Americans in the War of Independence, to the Boers, to the Greek and French Resistances in WW2 and the Vietnamese in the 60s all the way through to the current conflicts? Just because someone doesn't stand toe to toe and fight against an opponent they would be unable to beat doesn't make them cowards - it makes them smart. The ship is designed to be a guerilla warfare ship. It gets in quick, delivers a killing blow to those that it can and GTFO before the big guns turn up. If no support is in reserve then it is capable of whittling down even strong opponents who do not know how to deal with it. You may have no respect for Vagas and their pilots, then by all means kill all of them that you can. Don't be surprised to find that, just occasionally, you find yourself on the losing side of one. Call him a coward in Local chat and listen to the howls of laughter. :) i do pronounce you an idiot for comparing ww2 resistance fighters to a dude playing a 2009 computer game
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Deathbarrage i do pronounce you an idiot for comparing ww2 resistance fighters to a dude playing a 2009 computer game Abstraction isnt your strong point, eh?
dtyk	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Deathbarrage i do pronounce you an idiot for comparing ww2 resistance fighters to a dude playing a 2009 computer game Abstraction isnt your strong point, eh? What did you JUST say about stupid opponents?
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2009.12.08 22:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Studley Goodfk So every combatant that used guerilla tactics in the whole history of warfare has been a coward? From the Americans in the War of Independence, to the Boers, to the Greek and French Resistances in WW2 and the Vietnamese in the 60s all the way through to the current conflicts? Posting in a thread where players in a video game are compared to American Revolutionaries. I wonder what ship Paul Revere would fly? Probably Vagabond. *-- He said "The President is near."*
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.08 23:04:00 - [20] Originally by: King Rothgar You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all. Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming. You truly have a lot of posts on here showing how incompetent you are. I can't tell if you're trolling or not. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.

Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned	Posted - 2009.12.08 23:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Kenpotchi Vaga setup 3 Gyros or gtfo ~~~ [ 2009.02.05 09:37:43 ] Louis Trenker > - Who's ship is this?- It's a Titan baby.- Who's Titan is this?- BoB's.- Who's BoB?- BoB's dead baby! BoB's dead!
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.12.08 23:57:00 - [22] Originally by: King Rothgar It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular... This is the key. A Vaga can kill anything that can catch it and can run from anything that can kill it. When I am training people I tell them to basically ignore Vagas do to the above. A solo Vega is not a threat to a half decent fit ratter. When you start hitting multiple Vaga's things change, but if your out numbered your in trouble anyway. Vega's are in much better shape then back in the nano age. Being balanced at means people can use them but they are not the "default" PvP ship. Small gang PvP is far more interesting and fun these days. Never liked seeing a KM with 30 pilots on it and 23 were Vaga's... It is a good ship, it does what it does well (heavy tackle/solo anti-ratter).
Th0rG0d Pilots From Honour Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.12.09 00:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Posting in a thread where players in a video game are compared to American Revolutionaries. I wonder what ship Paul Revere would fly? Probably Vagabond. Made my day ------ Originally by: Swalesey Ok that makes moe sense. op wans corp where he can whack himself in the balls whilst swinging his tackle to some funkeh music. It's so obvious now you say it out loud
abrasive soap X-Fleet RaVeN Federation	Posted - 2009.12.09 00:32:00 - [24] the vagabond has one of the best tanks as far as hacs go
Alty McAltyalt	Posted - 2009.12.09 01:38:00 - [25] [Vagabond, Dominion Standard] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Warrior II x5 With MX-2 implant, AC and drone spec 4: 425 DPS at 20km 345 DPS at 30km New vaga is prettymuch better than sex.
Removal Tool Space Jerks	Posted - 2009.12.09 03:34:00 - [26] Hey Flora, did you read the patch notes?
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.09 03:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Flora Sma I've got a problem with Vagabonds - I find that when flown safely they put out mediocre damage. Since they are generally popular ships I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Axiom 1: Vagas should use autocannons. Axiom 2: A webbed vaga is a dead vaga. Assuming a fairly even fight I generally try to keep my vaga at least 15km away from hostiles to avoid being webbed. The optimal range of the autocannons is between 2-5km depending on ammo, with a falloff of 14-17km depending on skills. If my target is at 15km I'm I can do 60% of maximum DPS, which is OK... but if it is a 20km I'm down to about 40% and at 30km I'm hardly doing any damage. Any thoughts? You can evade most stuff outdamaging you at 20-30km (cerb, zealot), or move in closer and butcher stuff 1vs.1 with your excellent dmg selectivity (swaping 80% of your dps to specific dmg types is awesome)...for example both the ships above have little luck against an EMP vs. cerb or Phased Plasma vs. Zealot scenario. Wanting more than that is not a paradox, it would be way more imbalanced tho... The Vaga is again FOTM... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Robert Rumpletweezer Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.12.09 04:07:00 - [28] I have a theory: people are idiots. The person talking about honour and cowardice in this game proves this. Cool.
L Kahn	Posted - 2009.12.09 04:15:00 - [29] Originally by: King Rothgar You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all. Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming. TT_TT i like to fly vagas, when im not pinching pennies anyway... it is a fantastic ship, range is your best friend had one in a fleet fight a few days ago yea i died got neuting and primaried before i could gtfo, but their fun tastics ships :)
Ignitious Hellfury Minmatar Republic Military Skool HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.12.09 05:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Flora Sma I've got a problem with Vagabonds - I find that when flown safely they put out mediocre damage. Since they are generally popular ships I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Axiom 1: Vagas should use autocannons. Axiom 2: A webbed vaga is a dead vaga. Assuming a fairly even fight I generally try to keep my vaga at least 15km away from hostiles to avoid being webbed. The optimal range of the autocannons is between 2-5km depending on ammo, with a falloff of 14-17km depending on skills. If my target is at 15km I'm I can do 60% of maximum DPS, which is OK... but if it is a 20km I'm down to about 40% and at 30km I'm hardly doing any damage. Any thoughts? 17km falloff? Do you use t1 guns? Get barrage, problem solved... Next.

Lilith Velkor Minmatar Final Agony	Posted - 2009.12.09 19:26:00 - [31] Originally by: Norwood Franskly Originally by: Kenpotchi Vaga setup 3 Gyros or gtfo That paradigm is outdated. Given we are using the equivalent of 4 slots for damage / range mods, i.e. 4 lows or 3 lows and 2 rigs, the 2 gyro / 2 TE variant provides the better damage profile up to overheated web range for both longrange and shortrange ammo.
Kenpotchi	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:04:00 - [32] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Originally by: Norwood Franskly Originally by: Kenpotchi Vaga setup 3 Gyros or gtfo That paradigm is outdated. Given we are using the equivalent of 4 slots for damage / range mods, i.e. 4 lows or 3 lows and 2 rigs, the 2 gyro / 2 TE variant provides the better damage profile up to overheated web range for both longrange and shortrange ammo. o/\o Thanks for the back up on that one cuz i really didnt feel like explaining it.
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:04:00 - [33] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Originally by: Norwood Franskly Originally by: Kenpotchi Vaga setup 3 Gyros or gtfo That paradigm is outdated. Given we are using the equivalent of 4 slots for damage / range mods, i.e. 4 lows or 3 lows and 2 rigs, the 2 gyro / 2 TE variant provides the better damage profile up to overheated web range for both longrange and shortrange ammo. Any proof of that? I'm far too lazy to calculate it personally. You're comparing 3 Gyro / 1 TE to 2 Gyro / 2 TE, right? Last time I had a look at it I came up with the 3 Gyro setup (with 220s) coming up ahead up untill ~20k or so before being overtaken. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Kenpotchi	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:22:00 - [34] Edited by: Kenpotchi on 09/12/2009 20:23:01 We are talking about my personal set up is all. In the lows I used 2x Gyro II, 2x TE II, and a DCU II. Sure i can drop the DCU II for a third gyro but w/e. For Gyro II x3. Yes it will put out more damage but the paradox is that with TEs is that they add on to falloff and increase tracking. With 2x TE falloff is at 27km with close range ammo and 41km with barrage. Also I can effectivly put 75% dammage on an opponent at 20-24km with close range ammo while keeping my speed up. Thats about it.
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Kenpotchi Edited by: Kenpotchi on 09/12/2009 20:23:01 We are talking about my personal set up is all. In the lows I used 2x Gyro II, 2x TE II, and a DCU II. Sure i can drop the DCU II for a third gyro but w/e. For Gyro II x3. Yes it will put out more damage but the paradox is that with TEs is that they add on to falloff and increase tracking. With 2x TE falloff is at 27km with close range ammo and 41km with barrage. Also I can effectivly put 75% dammage on an opponent at 20-24km with close range ammo while keeping my speed up. Thats about it. That's not proof. Ignore tracking and do some maths. ;) ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Tolsimir Wolfblood MUERTA. BiffCo.	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:29:00 - [36] Edited by: Tolsimir Wolfblood on 09/12/2009 20:30:17 Edited by: Tolsimir Wolfblood on 09/12/2009 20:29:09
Studley Goodfk	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:30:00 - [37] As I see it, using my mediocre EFT Warrioring skills, with 2 Gyro and 2 TEs it becomes viable to use EMP/Fusion on a 20km orbit with 220mm ACs. In addition, on a tighter orbit it improves the quality of hits and increases damage as you are fighting lower and lower into falloff. As I understand it, the further towards the outer limit of falloff you are the less damage you do, so if you fit more TEs and increase your max falloff it will increase your damage in the mid ranges.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Final Agony	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:41:00 - [38] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 09/12/2009 20:45:28 Originally by: Intigo Any proof of that? I'm far too lazy to calculate it personally. You're comparing 3 Gyro / 1 TE to 2 Gyro / 2 TE, right? Yes, I used 1 RoF / 1 dmg rig instead of 2nd / 3rd gyro, difference is minimal though. Also used 180s, but here are your numbers as requested: For the sake of comparison, 220s 1) 3 gyro / 1 TE vs 2) 2 gyro / 2 TE: @30km, barrage: 1) 200 dps 2) 231 dps @25km, barrage: 1) 251 dps 2) 266 dps @20km, barrage: 1) 302 dps 2) 299 dps @20km, RF EMP: 1) 245 dps 2) 284 dps @15km, RF EMP: 1) 331 dps 2) 345 dps As you can see there is only a very small band where the 3gyro / 1TE comes ahead with barrage, with shortrange faction its pretty much in a distance where you dont wanna be anyway. Given that we also get the additional tracking, there is little reason for the 3/1 variant imo. This is with 220s, with 180s the advantage is more pronounced for the 2/2 variant. Edit: I'm using a 30km point on the vagabond, so my opinion might be biased towards ranged combat. And as the poster above me mentioned, it makes damage selection viable at longer ranges, which is a good thing.
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:44:00 - [39] Vagabond is probably the best ship in game, a lot of people are really bad a flying/fitting them tho...
Kenpotchi	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:47:00 - [40] Yes using EFT and my set up against a legion that I use while traveling at full speed I will hit for 400 DPS most of the time at 20km

Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 09/12/2009 20:45:28 Originally by: Intigo Any proof of that? I'm far too lazy to calculate it personally. You're comparing 3 Gyro / 1 TE to 2 Gyro / 2 TE, right? Yes, I used 1 RoF / 1 dmg rig instead of 2nd / 3rd gyro, difference is minimal though. Also used 180s, but here are your numbers as requested: For the sake of comparison, 220s 1) 3 gyro / 1 TE vs 2) 2 gyro / 2 TE: @30km, barrage: 1) 200 dps 2) 231 dps @25km, barrage: 1) 251 dps 2) 266 dps @20km, barrage: 1) 302 dps 2) 299 dps @20km, RF EMP: 1) 245 dps 2) 284 dps @15km, RF EMP: 1) 331 dps 2) 345 dps As you can see there is only a very small band where the 3gyro / 1TE comes ahead with barrage, with shortrange faction its pretty much in a distance where you dont wanna be anyway. Given that we also get the additional tracking, there is little reason for the 3/1 variant imo. This is with 220s, with 180s the advantage is more pronounced for the 2/2 variant. Edit: I'm using a 30km point on the vagabond, so my opinion might be biased towards ranged combat. And as the poster above me mentioned, it makes damage selection viable at longer ranges, which is a good thing. So you're basically saying what I'm saying and that is that at sub 20k range you're still doing more damage with the 3 Gyro setup using Barrage? As someone who hunts ratters a ton (where you get up in their face and personal) I think I'll stick to 3 Gyros (but yes, TEs are amazing now). ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Final Agony	Posted - 2009.12.09 20:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Intigo So you're basically saying what I'm saying and that is that at sub 20k range you're still doing more damage with the 3 Gyro setup using Barrage? Yes, if you stick to barrage below 20km, you are at the advantage, but that advantage is very slight, 3 dps @ 20km, 12 dps @ 18km. Below those ranges, you might just as well go for faction ammo, see below. Originally by: Intigo As someone who hunts ratters a ton (where you get up in their face and personal) I think I'll stick to 3 Gyros (but yes, TEs are amazing now). In that case I would go with the 2/2 variant, since you can switch to faction shortrange earlier, and thus match the resistance holes of the ratter.
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.12.09 22:05:00 - [43] Originally by: King Rothgar You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. Why don't you get your carrier doomsdayed about it? -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Bluntroller	Posted - 2009.12.09 23:10:00 - [44] lots of people in this thread dont know whats up But of course I wont share my vaga secrets :P
Machz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.12.09 23:27:00 - [45] I don't understand what the paradox is. Dealing "mediocre" damage as a result of flying "safely" isn't a paradox, it's a logical balance mechanic. The relationship between defensive and offensive capability should be inverse.
jimmyjam Gallente Sinner Among Saints Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2009.12.10 01:51:00 - [46] the new changes they made with the enhancers has made my vaga a lot better tbh i use a 180 set up and a 220 setup . the falloff for my small gun version is about 35 km with better tracking is awesome even at high speeds i dont see the problem.
Enkilil Minmatar Carbon Moon Corporation	Posted - 2009.12.10 06:11:00 - [47] Wait, wait... so your ship isn't ungodly fast AND doing an unspeakable amount of damage?
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.12.10 15:19:00 - [48] Originally by: Enkilil Wait, wait... so your ship isn't ungodly fast AND doing an unspeakable amount of damage? And basically made of paper, yes. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Tal'Shi Sonya	Posted - 2010.01.14 12:57:00 - [49] Vaga's good at what they do, right until the point where the prey brings a TD with optimal range script, at which point the Vaga might as well be throwing spit balls.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2010.01.14 15:02:00 - [50] this is a common setup, some people prefer a Suitcase instead of the 3rd gyro. Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Proxyyyy Caldari The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.01.14 15:07:00 - [51] Bump! Vagabondage is only for kinky extreme speed and dps lover's. (Keep on flying flora) im sure in time you'll get a hang of this awesome ship... Respect! God im bored = /
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.01.14 15:25:00 - [52] Originally by: Ashina Sito When I am training people I tell them to basically ignore Vagas do to the above. A solo Vega is not a threat to a half decent fit ratter. When you start hitting multiple Vaga's things change, but if your out numbered your in trouble anyway. Vega's are in much better shape then back in the nano age. Vaga nowadays do far more damage than they did during the nano age, and even during the nano age they had enough damage to kill ratters. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Cyb3r Thr3at Gallente Proposition Thirteen	Posted - 2010.01.14 16:04:00 - [53] The only Vaga setup that you'll need. [Dominion Vagabond] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Warrior II x5
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2010.01.14 16:43:00 - [54] Posting Cyb3r Thr3at's super secret fit because A) "oh my fit is too good to share" **es me off. B) It isn't very good. <3 Eve Search. Originally by:** Cyb3r Thr3at Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 14/01/2010 16:24:01 The only Vaga setup that you'll need. [Dominion Vagabond] The only Vaga setup that you'll need. [Dominion Vagabond] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Warrior II x5
Kenpotchi	Posted - 2010.01.14 16:47:00 - [55] Originally by: Endless Subversion Posting Cyb3r Thr3at's super secret fit because A) "oh my fit is too good to share" **es me off. B) It isn't very good. <3 Eve Search. Originally by:** Cyb3r Thr3at Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 14/01/2010 16:24:01 The only Vaga setup that you'll need. [Dominion Vagabond] The only Vaga setup that you'll need. [Dominion Vagabond] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Warrior II x5 The failtasitcness of this setup make me squirt milk out of my nose.
Cyb3r Thr3at Gallente Proposition Thirteen	Posted - 2010.01.14 17:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Kenpotchi Originally by: Endless Subversion Posting Cyb3r Thr3at's super secret fit because A) "oh my fit is too good to share" **es me off. B) It isn't very good. <3 Eve Search. Originally by:** Cyb3r Thr3at Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 14/01/2010 16:24:01 The only Vaga setup that you'll need. [Dominion Vagabond] The only Vaga setup that you'll need. [Dominion Vagabond] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II Barrage M Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Warrior II x5 The failtasitcness of this setup make me squirt milk out of my nose. Really? LOL Care to explain why?
Tenpun M	Posted - 2010.01.14 17:22:00 - [57] the problem with the vaga is that it's so predictable, they are all understandably setup to it's strenghts and flown in exactly the same way. I've never died to a vaga, you either know you can kill one and engage, or know you can't and don't bother
Kenpotchi	Posted - 2010.01.14 17:37:00 - [58] Edited by: Kenpotchi on 14/01/2010 17:39:02 [Vagabond, New Setup 1] Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I or another Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Warrior II x5 2620 M/S, 570 DPS with out implants, 29km falloff, tracking is 0.17... and 21,871 EHP Needs a 'Squire'PG2 or better to fit. Edit: 471 DPS with Barrage with a 44km Falloff.
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.01.14 17:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at Quote: The failtasitcness of this setup make me squirt milk out of my nose. Really? LOL Care to explain why? Because that since falloff increase as you go up in autocannon tier that makes using the smaller tier seriously fail on a falloff bonused ship. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Cyb3r Thr3at Gallente Proposition Thirteen	Posted - 2010.01.14 18:07:00 - [60] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at Quote: The failtasitcness of this setup make me squirt milk out of my nose. Really? LOL Care to explain why? Because that since falloff increase as you go up in autocannon tier that makes using the smaller tier seriously fail on a falloff bonused ship. My Dual 180 II split TE/Gyro fit was intended to greatly enhance the 180's superior tracking ability over 220's. Thats why i use Dual 180's vs 220's. Id rather fly a little closer & hit more often than not. Plus, I really dont need to sweat much with fast tackle frigs, the dual 180's shreads them in seconds, especialy with my enhanced tracking setup. So, no, i don't see any fail with my setup, my fit caters to the kind of play-style that i enjoy. :)

Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2010.01.14 18:14:00 - [61] LOL. Wandering around claiming that you have useful information you refuse to share is hilarious.
Kenpotchi	Posted - 2010.01.14 18:16:00 - [62] Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at Edited by: Cyb3r Thr3at on 14/01/2010 16:24:01 The only Vaga setup that you'll need. [Dominion Vagabond] Woops! Sorry people, just decided that i didn't want to share my Vaga fit. So if you missed it too bad, if you didn't.. then you scored! ;) Then stop with the duochbaggery and acting like your fit is the win all set up. Thats one of the main reason we said what we said. If you just posed your set up and said it fits my play style it would have come across alot les douchbaggish.
Cyb3r Thr3at Gallente Proposition Thirteen	Posted - 2010.01.14 18:27:00 - [63] You kids spend to much time in these forums, You should get outa your moms basement & get some fresh air. Honestly.. getting a little but hurt because of a little damaged e-peen is kinda pathetic.
Cosmic Anomaly	Posted - 2010.01.14 18:55:00 - [64] Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at You kids spend to much time in these forums, You should get outa your moms basement & get some fresh air. Honestly.. getting a little but hurt because of a little damaged e-peen is kinda pathetic. And he goes even further to provide proof to the accusation of douchebaggetry. Personal attacks of the mothers basement kind are out of place. In Italy it disgraces the family for a son to move before he is married regardless of his financial profile.
Kenpotchi	Posted - 2010.01.14 19:00:00 - [65] Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at You kids spend to much time in these forums, You should get outa your moms basement & get some fresh air. Honestly.. getting a little but hurt because of a little damaged e-peen is kinda pathetic. U mad?
Cyb3r Thr3at Gallente Proposition Thirteen	Posted - 2010.01.14 20:02:00 - [66] Whaa! My feelings are so hurt. :(
Gort Minmatar Federation of Freedom Fighters Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.14 21:10:00 - [67] I have soloed Tier 1 battleships in a Vaga and I'm not a particularly good Vaga pilot. (I've also had my butt kicked by them on occasion....) Also, what you usually see in these threads are slight variations on the standard set up, which are, tbh, generally pretty good. Cagey pilots sometimes add a different flavor to the mix and can surprise the hell out of opponents. Vaga's might not be in a class by themselves anymore, but it wouldn't take very long to call role. No question in my mind that they are number one in fun factor. Regards, -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Exitar Stormscion	Posted - 2010.01.14 22:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Cyb3r Thr3at You kids spend to much time in these forums, You should get outa your moms basement & get some fresh air. Honestly.. getting a little but hurt because of a little damaged e-peen is kinda pathetic. no u Mortal in body Eternal in will.


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