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harbinger pvp, where am i going wrong?

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rethoth Caldari Raata Invicti Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:05:00 - [1] tl;dr - I'm after some help picking targets with my harbinger, the engagements I have had have not gone to plan.. :wall of text I appreciate that 'where am i going wrong' is a very broad ranging question but any feedback both positive and negative will be well received. I have been flying a harbinger for the last couple of weeks and tried engaging various targets without much success. my skills can be seen at http://eve-sheet.com/skills/rethoth and my current harbinger fit is as follows heavy pulse laser x7 (scorch) named mwd warp disruptor ii cap booster sensor booster (scan res script) heatsink ii x 3 damage control ii medium armor repper ii (think final slot is a adaptive nano membrane ii) 1x medium ancillary rig 5x hammerhead ii now that is out of the way on to the engagements i have had.. engagement 1, vs hurricane / ship destroyed was doing ok in this fight and was eating away at his armor when i let him get in too close, he webbed me and also had a neut fitted to his ship which messed with my tank big time. believe the only thing i did wrong here was let him in too close.. engagement 2, vs Apoc / survived, legged it believed he was fit for sniping so got in close (around 10k and set up orbit) turns out he had tracking computers on his set up so had no problem tracking me and laying down dps, got him 1/2 through his buffer before i had to bail on the fight not sure what i could have done differently here, mayby it was just bad luck on his fit? engagement 3, vs Drake, ship destroyed this was a bit of a stupid engagement, dont think i should have even bothered to try this, found myself unable to break his tank while he held me down and pummeled me with HAMs lesson learnt, should avoid drakes. those are the 3 most mentionable engagements i have had with my harbinger, I've also lost one to a arazu tackle and blob (not much i could have done about that!) does anyone had advice to give on what I could do differently or what targets I should go for with my set up? (is my set up even viable?) /wall of text meh..
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:16:00 - [2] Edited by: Marko Riva on 08/12/2009 12:20:34 1 You have an active rep setup that's really crappy with no buffer or resists. You'll be unable to tank the incoming damage from the Cane while he'll probably be EHP fitted. Non bonused crappy active tank loses from EHP fit. 2 if he's setup for sniping why do you stay 10k out, orbit 500m-2km. 3 drakes are a ***** and unless you either massively outdps him (you don't) you'll have to balance your dps/tanking and hope to win there, but again; your repping is crap and you have no EHP. See 1 either fit a 1600 plate or a LSE, both options work. IF that apoc in situ 2 WAS sniper fit you lost it due to a lack of tactics, fight 1 and 3 were lost due a lack of EHP. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
FAIL Communicator	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:22:00 - [3] 3 encounters of which u basically said yourself what u did worng. for fits, make a battleclinic account, en search the ship fit database, its awsome, with point given en remarks by players. but even then : even if skills and ships are balanced u win 50 % statiscally. neuts, drakes ar a *****. So change yourself: neut also, load up ecm drones, so they cant fire on u, use ecm or dampenign crap, targetpainters, webs ectra,,, the list is endlessly, thats eve
The Tzar T-Wrecks Cult of War	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:48:00 - [4] Try fitting Vespa-EC600's, 5 ECM drones against those BC targets will play havoc with their dps. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. StevieSG
King Rothgar Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2009.12.08 12:54:00 - [5] Your ship setup is terrible, that's the root of your problem. Properly fitted, the harbinger is an even match for a properly fitted drake (or any other BC). Attacking a BS solo in a BC is suicidal as a rule since they are too big and slow to sig/speed tank and no where near tough or damaging enough to beat them in gank and tank. That said a sniper boat is an easy kill for pretty much anything up close, even a t1 frigate. The key there is getting very close and orbiting. The setup you have smacks of battle clinic eft warriors, I recommend you not look there as just about everything posted is utter crap. The cookie cutter armor tanked harby setup will give you the best results. The setup is: 7x FMPII, mwd, point, web, cap booster, MARII, DCII, 2x EANMII, 1600mm RT, 1x HSII, 3x Trimark, 5x medium drones of your choice. It does roughly 50% less damage than your setup but has 300% the EHP and still retains the rep. It also has a web, which will fix your close range tracking issues with anything bigger than a frigate. I wouldn't hesitate to engage a cane 1v1 at point blank range with my harby. On the flip side, I wouldn't hesitate to fight a harby with the cane either. -----------------------------------------------------
rethoth Caldari Raata Invicti Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.08 13:18:00 - [6] cheers for the advice, i'll scrap the current fit and try one of the mentioned fits out for size, had a feeling it was pretty cr4p after trying it for a few days.. at the moment i am trying to take on every target i can, if i lose i lose but the idea being to get some experiance with what ship i can or cannot beat. skills wise i think i am ok to fly the harby, can you see any glaring ommisions? meh..
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.12.08 15:04:00 - [7] If you're willing to go pure buffer and drop the rep, here is the fit I like to use: Quote: Lows: 1x DC II 1x 1600mm Plate 1x EANM II 1x ANP II 2x Heat Sink II Mids: 1x MWD 1x Disruptor or Scram (your choice) 1x Medium Cap Booster w/ 800's 1x Web OR 1x ECCM (usually web solo, ECCM gang for me) Highs: 7x Focused Medium Pulse Laser II's (bring Scorch and IN Multifreq crystals) Drones: 5x Hammerhead II or 5x Vespa EC-600 (up to you) Rigs: 3x Trimarks If you're looking for a fit for solo that's a bit faster and more agile, I've seen some pretty good looking "nano" Harbinger fits. Take a look at this KM for an idea. Good luck. -----
Merii Kha'sen Amarr Unity Exploration	Posted - 2009.12.08 15:20:00 - [8] Your problem is that you're using a Harbinger. Battlecruisers are like oversized destroyers, and work about as well at low SP. Also, your fit sucks. Upgrade to a Dual Heavy Pulse Armageddon and this will be much easier.
Will Strafe Caldari Warmongers	Posted - 2009.12.08 15:31:00 - [9] This harbinger was the top killer in Caldari Militia for a while, maybe you can get some inspiration from the setup. http://www.caldarimilitia.org/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=137822
rethoth Caldari Raata Invicti Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.08 15:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Merii Kha'sen Your problem is that you're using a Harbinger. Battlecruisers are like oversized destroyers, and work about as well at low SP. Also, your fit sucks. Upgrade to a Dual Heavy Pulse Armageddon and this will be much easier. the reasoning behind using a harbinger is that when it gets blown up the insurance covers the cost of the ship so I'm not loosing much in isk if i was to use a heavy pulse geddon (which incidentally i can only fit to T1 or named) i'm going to lose a lot more isk every time it pops, plus i'm more likely to get screwed over in a slow moving ship feel free to correct me if i am wrong, note i am not trying to flame just telling it how i see it :) also bearing in mind i am currently hanging about in lowsec rather then 0.0 is it really that pointless flying a BC size ship? meh..
Arthello Pilots Of Honour Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.12.08 16:09:00 - [11] Don't listen to those saying the Harbinger doesn't cut it. It's an excellent BC. You need to buffer fit it though. You should get close to 60k EFT HP with trimarks, 1600mm plate and resistance mods. My Harby with only two heat sinks and hammerhead II's give me 617dps (675 w/three) and 57k EFT HP. If you're up against other BS/BC use hammerhead II drones as the Vespas are notoriously unreliable in my opinion. Use everything in your disposal to kill off your opposition. Many forget to overload their guns if it's getting to a close call for instance. Most important of all is to exploit your enemy's weaknesses. Are you getting bad hits? Put a web on him. Is he having problems tracking you? Orbit even closer. If it's a blasterboat get some range on him, if it's LR fitted go close, if it's a drone boat pop a couple of his Ogres with your hammerheads etc.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.08 16:11:00 - [12] Originally by: rethoth Edited by: rethoth on 08/12/2009 15:39:30 Originally by: Merii Kha'sen Your problem is that you're using a Harbinger. Battlecruisers are like oversized destroyers, and work about as well at low SP. Also, your fit sucks. Upgrade to a Dual Heavy Pulse Armageddon and this will be much easier. the reasoning behind using a harbinger is that when it gets blown up the insurance covers the cost of the ship so I'm not loosing much in isk if i was to use a heavy pulse geddon (which incidentally i can only fit to T1 or named) i'm going to lose a lot more isk every time it pops, plus i'm more likely to get screwed over in a slow moving ship feel free to correct me if i am wrong, note i am not trying to flame just telling it how i see it :) also bearing in mind i am currently hanging about in lowsec rather then 0.0 is it really that pointless flying a BC size ship? edit: and i am now aware the fit sucks cheers The one you quoted has no clue. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
rethoth Caldari Raata Invicti Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.08 16:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Marko Riva Originally by: rethoth Edited by: rethoth on 08/12/2009 15:39:30 Originally by: Merii Kha'sen Your problem is that you're using a Harbinger. Battlecruisers are like oversized destroyers, and work about as well at low SP. Also, your fit sucks. Upgrade to a Dual Heavy Pulse Armageddon and this will be much easier. the reasoning behind using a harbinger is that when it gets blown up the insurance covers the cost of the ship so I'm not loosing much in isk if i was to use a heavy pulse geddon (which incidentally i can only fit to T1 or named) i'm going to lose a lot more isk every time it pops, plus i'm more likely to get screwed over in a slow moving ship feel free to correct me if i am wrong, note i am not trying to flame just telling it how i see it :) also bearing in mind i am currently hanging about in lowsec rather then 0.0 is it really that pointless flying a BC size ship? edit: and i am now aware the fit sucks cheers The one you quoted has no clue. that was my assumption :p Quote: Most important of all is to exploit your enemy's weaknesses. Are you getting bad hits? Put a web on him. Is he having problems tracking you? Orbit even closer. If it's a blasterboat get some range on him, if it's LR fitted go close, if it's a drone boat pop a couple of his Ogres with your hammerheads etc. more helpful advice, i think part of it is bad habits on my part, sometimes i de-agress and try to leg it when i might have won the fight if i had stayed in it.. guess its all a learning curve meh..
Terraform Gallente Shadow Tek Industries Temporal Abyss	Posted - 2009.12.08 19:18:00 - [14] The best advice I can give is get one of the setups posted above and keep blowing up. Experience is your greatest weapon in Eve PVP. Eventually you will get an idea how to do things your own way, and then you will start seeing other people blow up, and laugh loudly as you watch their pods struggling to warp off faster than your locktime. It's a great feeling, no other game can give the adrenaline Eve gives you.
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.12.08 19:38:00 - [15] #1 You are soloing in a bc. This won't cut it in 0.0. In lowsec you have tio know the area well/be careful or you're going to get ganked. #2 You have no way of holding someone. Take off the sensor booster and put a scrambler on. You can now kill frigates and other things that are faster than you if you can get them in scram range. You can also scramble someone who only has a disruptor fit and nano your armor tanked ass away from them if you need to leg it. You can use the scram to stay at eh far edge of webrange. Ect. A web works for this too but not as well. #3 Fit a tank. I recomend a 1600mm plate, dc, eanm and some trimarks. Despite what pve has taught you, 1 armor rep is not a tank. You can barely make an acceptable active armor tank with 2 MAR all resist mods and an active rep bonus.
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:55:00 - [16] Edited by: Shade Millith on 08/12/2009 20:56:44 Originally by: Hiroshima Jita #1 You are soloing in a bc. This won't cut it in 0.0. In lowsec you have tio know the area well/be careful or you're going to get ganked. Incredably wrong. I've been barreling blind/face first though 0.0 and lowsec and have had very good success. Quote: #2 You have no way of holding someone. Take off the sensor booster and put a scrambler on. You can now kill frigates and other things that are faster than you if you can get them in scram range. Very true. Without the sensor booster you will have some trouble grabbing smaller things like cruisers that don't want to fight. However you gain the ability to slow things down, which when soloing is invaluable. --------------------------------------------
Eht namrezzY Amarr Hounds of the Abyss	Posted - 2009.12.09 11:11:00 - [17] Edited by: Eht namrezzY on 09/12/2009 11:15:47 Harbinger is just as good if not better than the myrm/HAM Drake. Best All-Around Solo/Small Gang Harbinger Fit: [HIGH] Focused Medium Pulse Laser x7 [Scorch M / Imperial Navy Multifrequency M] Medium Energy Neutralizer II [MEDIUM] Warp Scramber II Medium Electrochemical Capiactor Booster [Cap Bosster 800s] Warp Disruptor II 10mn Microwarp Drive II LOWS 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungston Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II x 2 Damage Control II RIGS Medium Trimark Armor Pump I x 3 Drones Hammerhead II x3 Warrior II x 4 or EWAR Drones 70k EHP 450+ DPS with Scorch and Drones @ 20k Versatility of Medium Neut and light drones so you're not compeltely helpless vs smaller ships. SUPER TIGHT fight though. I am using +3% CPU implants and the minus medium turret cpu use one. The trick with flying the Harbinger or any Amarr laserboat is to utilize your SCORCH range as long as possible. Nothing is suppose to be able to survive toe to toe with a blaster boat for very long. If you're facing missile/shield tanks I usually just go balls out because I do more dps with Multifreq up close.
Rahabim Dumah Amarr NON PROPERO	Posted - 2009.12.09 17:18:00 - [18] Harbinger is my personal top killing ship. My fit I have taken into SEVERAL encounters, and I have faced all of my corpmate's battlecruisers 1v1 and lost only to a spank ham drake with a massive shield buffer, but the fight was CLOSE. Harbinger in my opinion is one of the MEANEST battlecruisers in the game between it's solid DPS and MASSIVE buffer. Here is my personal fit that works GREAT. Damage Control II 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plate Energized Adaptive Nano II Energized Adaptive Nano II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Warp Disruptor I 10MN Afterburner II Medium Electrochemical Cap Booster w/ 800 charges 7x Focused Medium Pulse Laser II's (Imperial Navy Multifreq and Scorch in cargo) 1 Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator 5x Valkyrie II's 3x Trimark Armor Pump I didnt checkout your skills, but basically with decent skills dps should be around 540 or so. I suggest Valkyries since their faster and spread out your damage types and screw over T1 Amarr, all Gallente, armor Minmitar, and T2 Caldari ships, neut kills tank on many other ships. (Anything smaller than you and dual repped Brutixes and Myrmidons, hehehe) Have fun with this setup, it serves me VERY well! Also, a full set of slaves just makes this thing dead sexy lol.
Aralieus Amarr Traumark Logistics	Posted - 2009.12.09 17:38:00 - [19] Seems to me you need a bit more tank, having uber dps isnt everything if your tank is crap and cant last long enough to even apply it. Try this it (on sisi first if you can): [Harbinger, GRRR] Medium Armor Repairer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I 10MN Afterburner II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Valkyrie II x5 Note: Neuts and drone boats will be your only main concern...turrent ships really dont have a chance if you pilot the ship's fit to its fullest potiential.
Swatyy Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.12.09 21:55:00 - [20] My recommendation are: 1. Go for a passive buffer tank. 2. In the balance between tank and dps, edge toward dps. 3. Ask yourself if a propulsion module is really useful. The rest is a matter of tactics, which you seem to be figuring out by trying new stuff. I love my Harbinger (QuickFit Image) and think it's among the best ships in Eve. o7 xDIAx \| Swatyy --- Blog: Evolving Paradigms Combat Videos: YouTube
Dodgy Past Amarr Debitum Naturae	Posted - 2009.12.10 13:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Spectre3353 If you're willing to go pure buffer and drop the rep, here is the fit I like to use: Quote: Lows: 1x DC II 1x 1600mm Plate 1x EANM II 1x ANP II 2x Heat Sink II Mids: 1x MWD 1x Disruptor or Scram (your choice) 1x Medium Cap Booster w/ 800's 1x Web OR 1x ECCM (usually web solo, ECCM gang for me) Highs: 7x Focused Medium Pulse Laser II's (bring Scorch and IN Multifreq crystals) Drones: 5x Hammerhead II or 5x Vespa EC-600 (up to you) Rigs: 3x Trimarks If you're looking for a fit for solo that's a bit faster and more agile, I've seen some pretty good looking "nano" Harbinger fits. Take a look at this KM for an idea. Good luck. This fit has room for a medium neut in the utility high. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
Beltantis Torrence Groovy Guns	Posted - 2009.12.11 06:48:00 - [22] Fit a plate instead of the rep. Put a web on your ship. Put some armor rigs on it. 1) Vs Cane - web would've kept him at range. Neut wouldn't have mattered at all. Would have simply out-dps'd him. Use Navy Multifreq up close. 2) Orbit at 500m, not 10km. Kill his drones. 3) Overload and more buffer and you should've won. Against a drake just get up close and personal and overload everything. Finally for solo PVP consider using Vespa EC-600's instead of the hammerheads. They'll jam out a BC roughly 50% of the time and a BS 20-30% of the time.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.12.11 10:25:00 - [23] Hurricane.. try to use your range advantage as long as possible And avoid his tracking advantage. If you get under 12 km he WILL have 2 neuts on you! Apoc.. the few BS you can fight are the ammar ones because of their inferior tracking. But to use that you need to be under 1km. Also due to their focus on massive scorch range, quie some ammar BS do not carry a web. Also.. I would drop 3rd damage mod to improve a bit your tank.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.12.11 11:34:00 - [24] My advices for solo : - always fit point, web and cap booster /even small/ to meds - dont use mar, fit another hs - fit at least small neut to last high /for frigs/ - use your supreme dps for gank and gtfo tactics - med ecm drones are very good idea /but lower your dps by 150, which is alot/ - your targets are bcs and down, dont try to pvp proper fit closerange bs in any bc solo - cruisers - just melt them, if its hac/recon, actually only chance of landing scram/web is on the beginning of fight /when good pilot/ - cane - with shield tanked cane your biggest issue will be scramming/webbing him, vs armor tanked try to keep range as long as possible, you should win, you have better dps/ehp value, tracking doesnt matter if you have clue about piloting - myrm - stay at range as long as possible, it can be some triple rep abomination that can completely tank you till it runs out of cap boosters, if not just gank - drake - melt with mf, overheat guns around 50% shield, dont plan killing proper hamdrake in harbi without slaves /or kiting, hes more agile and faster/ - if you are flying in lowsec, get yourself slaves /also count with veteran pvpers using pirate implants/

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