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[Issue] Identify and Remove Price Ceilings

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Alekseyev Karrde	Posted - 2009.12.09 06:15:00 - [1] An EVE price ceiling I define as any refineable item which is available at a fixed price via NPC sell order. These inhibit competition by constraining the market, potentially keeping mineral prices lower than they would be. I would like the CCP economics and statistics team to devote some time to systematically identifying these items, ascertaining their impact if any, and then turning them over to the devs to either make them unrefineable or produceable by players only. ---
Roastedpot Blutkinder	Posted - 2009.12.09 06:16:00 - [2]
Daffyd Bowie	Posted - 2009.12.09 06:17:00 - [3] Edited by: Daffyd Bowie on 09/12/2009 06:22:44 Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde An EVE price ceiling I define as any refineable item which is available at a fixed price via NPC sell order. What items are you talking about? I mean specifically... examples?
Alekseyev Karrde	Posted - 2009.12.09 06:25:00 - [4] Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 09/12/2009 06:25:20 POS and related items come to mind. Though I'm not versed in the economic dynamics to know if it is significant enough to be a determining factor in pricing right now, you can buy them in unlimited quantities from NPCs and refine them. Shuttles used to be text book example of this but CCP fixed them. I just want moar. ---
Daffyd Bowie	Posted - 2009.12.09 06:38:00 - [5] I can't see supporting asking the people who could be making my game better to take time to hunt for things we're not even sure are there. You don't know that this has an impact? Couldn't you ask around a bit first? I mean you guys have a limited amount of time to get CCP doing things the community wants. Wouldn't it make sense not to waste that time on speculated "price ceilings"? Ask in the market discussion forum. If you come back with data that shows refining of pos or other anchorables (or any other npc sold item for that matter) has a real effect on mineral price limits then I'll support.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.12.11 03:32:00 - [6] Ummm... seriously, please engage brain before posting... they did this like a year ago already.
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange	Posted - 2009.12.14 19:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Gaogan Ummm... seriously, please engage brain before posting... they did this like a year ago already. They removed some. Far from all. The one I'm more worried about right now is the insurance price floor, which most emphatically has not been removed.
Daffyd Bowie	Posted - 2009.12.19 22:22:00 - [8] Edited by: Daffyd Bowie on 19/12/2009 22:25:59 Edited by: Daffyd Bowie on 19/12/2009 22:25:40 Insurance is a completely different topic than he is proposing. Have a look at the wiki entry for this one: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Identify_and_remove_price_ceilings_%28CSM%29 Essentially what he did was follow this chain of logic: A. There were price ceilings in the past that CCP fixed. B. There might just be others....not that any of the hundreds of thousands of people playing eve have identified any...but there might be. C. I could take 10 minutes of my own time to discover if there are any....but I can't be bothered. D. Instead I'll make a post that has absolutely zero content and get one support without reason and another support for something completely off the topic. E. I'll then raise it to the CSM and waste a whole lot of time that might have been spent on something meaningful. F. In the process I will ignore things that people have actually supported with reasoned argument and thoughtful content. Well done. I wonder why people think the CSM is a useless institution? Oh Wait! I forgot the best part: "I just want moar" Thaaat's right.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2009.12.20 10:54:00 - [9] Anything that NPC's sell and that can be refined is a potential price ceiling, and insurance provides te floor on the other end. This is inhibiting to the free market spirit of EVE and can definitely use some attention. When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet!
Helen Highwater Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.12.20 12:53:00 - [10] So put some time into it and come up with an actual proposal rather than this extremely weak effort. -------------------------------------------------------------- Let's not and say we did.
Ki Tarra Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2009.12.20 14:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Helen Highwater So put some time into it and come up with an actual proposal rather than this extremely weak effort. This! What items are you claiming are imposing a price cap? What is that cap?
Daffyd Bowie	Posted - 2009.12.20 16:15:00 - [12] Ok, as our CSM delegates can't be bothered I took 3 minutes in game and did a little research on this. I'm not wealthy enough to look at the really big items, like the actual POS modules so I only looked at a pair of the guns. 1. The Small Beam Laser Battery costs 450,000 ISK on the NPC market. It perfectly reprocesses to 3406 Isogen. This would cap Isogen at 132.12 ISK. 2. The Medium Pulse Laser Battery costs 1,800,000 ISK on the NPC market. It perfectly reprocesses to 7812 Isogen. This would cap Isogen at 240.41 ISK. 3. Isogen (in the region I happened to be) topped out at 66.89 ISK per unit in the last 365 days. It's currently trading for about 50 ISK per unit. I don't think 197.5% of the last year's high price is a comfortable level. The Eve economy is just way too crazy for such a close cap. Was that so hard? I still can't support this topic and I still think the CSM is wasting its time talking about this. A little research and thought would have led to a much more effective proposal. Remove the NPC market and seed the bpo maybe?
Kim Wilde Gallente Covenant	Posted - 2009.12.20 20:17:00 - [13] not supported fix the game killer issues like grid lag and balance issues first atleast the last would be a statistics tasking imo
Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.12.20 22:28:00 - [14] If you could start by first identifying which ceilings are in place that are actually being capped, then you might have a case. But as it stands, you're asking others to do the work for you. YOU go and find some caps. Crunch the numbers. And THEN come back to us with actual data about what you're talking about having any change on the market as it stands. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2009.12.20 23:40:00 - [15] Originally by: Daffyd Bowie Ok, as our CSM delegates can't be bothered I took 3 minutes in game and did a little research on this. I'm not wealthy enough to look at the really big items, like the actual POS modules so I only looked at a pair of the guns. 1. The Small Beam Laser Battery costs 450,000 ISK on the NPC market. It perfectly reprocesses to 3406 Isogen. This would cap Isogen at 132.12 ISK. 2. The Medium Pulse Laser Battery costs 1,800,000 ISK on the NPC market. It perfectly reprocesses to 7812 Isogen. This would cap Isogen at 240.41 ISK. 3. Isogen (in the region I happened to be) topped out at 66.89 ISK per unit in the last 365 days. It's currently trading for about 50 ISK per unit. I don't think 197.5% of the last year's high price is a comfortable level. The Eve economy is just way too crazy for such a close cap. Was that so hard? I still can't support this topic and I still think the CSM is wasting its time talking about this. A little research and thought would have led to a much more effective proposal. Remove the NPC market and seed the bpo maybe? Thank for the effort. It is possible to log on sisi (the test server) and try all the stuff there, as everything cost 100 isk on the test server. Probably CCP could do a database query and check this stuff much more precisely than us. Then there is the problem hos you calculate the price ceiling for items using multiple minerals. If this can be done with very few hours of work and a database query I am in favor of the check, so tentatively supported.
darius mclever	Posted - 2009.12.21 01:57:00 - [16] everyone can do it. the release the database dump which tells you how much you get from refining everything. all you need to do is getting npc prices (not sure if they are in the DB) and the mineral prices.
Don Pellegrino Helljumpers Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.12.21 06:54:00 - [17]

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