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Slurricane
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Posted - 2009.12.10 18:13:00 -
[1]
I am trying to determine my realistic frig options for 2 man pirate group.
I understand rifter is very strong, what other options should i consider and why?
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Laciter
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Posted - 2009.12.10 18:54:00 -
[2]
With standard t1 frigs being cheap to buy and quick to train, you may want to consider cross training a few races and experimenting with different ships/fits. I am considering becoming a frigate specialist myself. I believe Rifter, Punisher, and Incursus are the usual ones used in pvp. Kestrel's used to be sweet, but missiles apparently suck now.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Raata Invicti
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Posted - 2009.12.10 19:17:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Slurricane
I am trying to determine my realistic frig options for 2 man pirate group.
I understand rifter is very strong, what other options should i consider and why?
If we're talking about t1 frigs...
Slasher - I wouldn't advise this. The advantage of the slasher is in its ridiculous speed/sig ratio (e.g. it's very hard to hit). It's fragile as hell, though, and will by extension melt to other frigates and wont be doing epic damage. It's primarily a tackler, so I wouldn't advise this for a two-man group
Breacher - Decent for a skirmish fit. It's paper, like the slasher, but can orbit at ~20-25km, keep a point on the target, and deal out a decent amount of missile damage. Don't attempt to get close with it.
Rifter - Good balance of speed, tank, and versatility. You can go with an artillery skirmish fit or an autocannon fit. Most people use autocannons.
Condor: Similar to slasher.
Merlin - If you're new, its split weapon systems may be an issue. Regardless, it's fast, can field a decent tank (can fit a MSE, which is awesome for a frigate), and can do good damage. The ship was really built for a skirmish fit (orbit at 15-24km, pewpew while staying out of web range), but you can definitely get away with fitting blasters/rockets and going in close to melt face.
Kestrel - Missile boat. Rockets are a terrible weapon system and require the target be webbed to even do close to full damage, so I'd recommend standard missiles. The beauty of standard missiles is that they will give you decent performance regardless of what range you fight at. I'd try to stay out of web/scram range if you can, but you're not screwed if you get close like other long-range weapon systems are.
Atron - See Condor/Slasher
Incursus: One of the few combat frigates that can field a drone..pretty nifty plus. Aside from that, it's roughly similar to a rifter, sporting a decent mix of tank, speed, and gank. IT probably focuses a bit more on gank than tank compared to the rifter, however.
Tristan: Rather bulky for a frigate, and uses split weapon systems. Regardless, in the right hands it can be a bit of a beast for a frigate. Can also carry a light done.
Executioner: see slasher
Inquisitor: Think an Amarrian breacher
Punisher: Slower and tankier than the rifter. Runs around with a bunch of armor and shoots pewpewlazorz at stuff.
You may also want to take a look at the EW frigates, but in a two-man group you're probably better off with another pewpew frigate. The versatility of the 'standard' frigates (Incursus, rifter, punisher, merlin/kestrel) makes them the most common, though you certainly shouldn't discount the others.
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Mr Xanatos
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Posted - 2009.12.11 14:19:00 -
[4]
Rifter and a Griffin would make a nice cheap 2 man package. One for dps and one for EWAR.
Frigs pop fast so EWAR would be good for keeping you alive a little longer. Rifter is just a flat out awesome ship.
You planning on dual boxing cause thats little tricky especially if you are new to PEW. |
Lady Spank
Amarr
Sekret Kool Klubb
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.11 15:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Slurricane
I am trying to determine my realistic frig options for 2 man pirate group.
I understand rifter is very strong, what other options should i consider and why?
If we're talking about t1 frigs...
This guy knows his stuff 
Have to say I've gone through just about every tech I frig and have settled on the incursus and tristan as favourites.
The rifter is very popular for a reason but I don't fly it since it's more fun flying 'lesser' ships.
Tristan can be surprisingly effective once you get some skill points into it.
Incursus is great even from a low sp start since you can throw a 200 plate and dc on it with very little investment in tanking skills.
Originally by: Tirus Sinobi
Your response has set your intelligence barrier so low that anything you post from here on that breaches it, will have to be considered posted by somebody else.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
The Rise of The Dragon Knights
Void Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.11 16:16:00 -
[6]
Our last 2 frigate tournaments were won by a Rifter (not suprise here) and by a Tristan. I use the Tristan a lot in PVP and it is a great little ship. I contrast to the Incursus it can fit a decent tank as well.
All races have 1-2 good frigates.
Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenĘt built for this!
Clear Skies - The Movie
ROTDK is recruiting
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Slurricane
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Posted - 2009.12.11 22:00:00 -
[7]
my partner is in a rifter, i would like a setup which:
isnt a rifter
compliments a rifter for 2 man pirating
is competitive solo pvp frigate
i was playing with a punisher but the limited dmg types made it VERY innefective in certain scenarios, that has me looking at kestrel at the moment.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.12.11 22:48:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 11/12/2009 22:49:59
The Vigil is perhaps the most undervalued T1 frig.
This is in part because it doesn't often get fit well and also because it's a shining example of the Mini handicap: it requires a lot of SPs to get the most out of it (projectiles, missiles and drone all on one T1 frig).
With SPs, it's the best tackling T1 frig in the game and, if you don't mind plinking your targets to death, a formidable solo ship for its class. Pilots who use a well fit Vigil can confirm that there is not a cookie cutter fit rifter, incursus, merlin or punisher they wouldn't try to fight and usually the Vigil will win.
Or, you can be another Rifter out there in a sea of Rifters. The Rifter is a great little ship but when half or more of all the T1 frigs flying around are one kind of ship I prefer to fly something that will kick that one ship in the teeth.
However, folks mostly just plug the Vigil into EFT and go "40ish DPS!? -  . I'm getting a Rifter." 
Edit: A well fit Vigil does not have a Target Painter. 
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.11 23:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/12/2009 23:29:27
Quote:
With SPs, it's the best tackling T1 frig in the game and, if you don't mind plinking your targets to death, a formidable solo ship for its class. Pilots who use a well fit Vigil can confirm that there is not a cookie cutter fit rifter, incursus, merlin or punisher they wouldn't try to fight and usually the Vigil will win.
It's faster on the initial tackle. The Slasher is superior for maintaining the tackle, though.
Quote:
Edit: A well fit Vigil does not have a Target Painter.
A well fit solo/duo vigil, you mean.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.12.12 02:28:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 12/12/2009 02:32:04
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
It's faster on the initial tackle. The Slasher is superior for maintaining the tackle, though.
The opposite is true.
The Slasher locks targets faster than the Vigil.
However, it can't be built to be as fast, has less ability to be tanked, no spare mids after propulsion and point and will cap out in less than a minute if you have to run both a MWD and your point.
The Vigil is superior for holding point. The Slasher is a great suicide tackler when you have a close warp in ( <22km lock range without leadership bonuses).
Really, there's nothing a Slasher does that a Vigil can't do better. Sure, it's got a faster lock time but if you really need a super fast lock time then slap a Sensor Booster in the third mid on the Vigil.
The main advantage a Slasher has over a Vigil is that it takes less SPs.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
A well fit solo/duo vigil, you mean.
Nope. But in fairness it was a bit of a generalization. If your duo consists of a Vigil and a Kestrel then it might make sense to have a TP for example. You could also be in a gang of 5 frigs but if none is primarily a missile boat there are better things to use that mid slot for than the TP. Just because a ship has a bonus doesn't mean you need to or should always use it. Heresy, I know.
A standard well-fit Vigil won't have a TP unless your standard fleet also consists of missile boats and even then you may not fit a TP. I have yet to be in the position where the TP was a better choice over other options but, than again, I'm willing to acknowledge it could happen.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.12 02:51:00 -
[11]
Quote:
The opposite is true.
The Slasher locks targets faster than the Vigil.
However, it can't be built to be as fast, has less ability to be tanked, no spare mids after propulsion and point and will cap out in less than a minute if you have to run both a MWD and a long point.
The Vigil is superior for holding point. The Slasher is a great suicide tackler when you have a close warp in ( <22km lock range without leadership bonuses).
Really, there's nothing a Slasher does that a Vigil can't do better. Sure, it's got a faster lock time but if you really need a super fast lock time then slap a Sensor Booster in the third mid on the Vigil.
The main advantage a Slasher has over a Vigil is that it takes less SPs.
Slasher has significantly less sig, so it can avoid fire better than the vigil. You shouldn't need to permarun the MWD
Quote:
Nope. But in fairness it was a bit of a generalization. If your duo consists of a Vigil and a Kestrel then it might make sense to have a TP for example. You could also be in a gang of 5 frigs but if none is primarily a missile boat there are better things to use that mid slot for than the TP. Just because a ship has a bonus doesn't mean you need to or should always use it. Heresy, I know.
A standard well-fit Vigil won't have a TP unless your standard fleet also consists of missile boats and even then you may not fit a TP. I have yet to be in the position where the TP was a better choice over other options but, than again, I'm willing to acknowledge it could happen.
If you're using the vigil as a pure tackler than no. The boost to tracking that a bonused TP gives is very useful, though. A single UNBONUSED T2 TP (not including skills which also boost TPs) gives the same tracking boost as a scripted tracking computer or three tracking enhancers.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.12.12 03:07:00 -
[12]
In situations where you don't need to perma run the MWD (as you say) the sig bonus is pretty meaningless compared to one extra mid and two extra lows of the Vigil (30 vs. 44).
Being able to permarun a MWD and hold a long point could actually be very useful. With the Vigil you can do this and outrun nearly all drone and missile damage. With the Slasher you can't.
All this pretty back and forth aside for a moment:
I tried to find where you were actually skilled with frigate fighting ingame and can't find any evidence. All I see are T1 frigate losses and no kills with a T1 frigate in the past year. Am I missing something?
You aren't just a forum/eft warrior are you?
You don't have to answer if you would rather not.
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