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Raven Miner Gallente Phoenix Rising INC	Posted - 2009.12.11 00:55:00 - [1] Is it just me or does run better and look alot pretty on windows 7. I upgraded the other day as Vista was driving me mental and the change from Vista to 7 is amazing.
Jeremiah Tameri	Posted - 2009.12.11 00:58:00 - [2] It's just a placebo affect, you upgraded your OS so you start to believe your games run and look better.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.11 00:58:00 - [3] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/12/2009 00:59:06 Originally by: Raven Miner Is it just me or does run better and look alot pretty on windows 7. I upgraded the other day as Vista was driving me mental and the change from Vista to 7 is amazing. Vista uses a lot of RAM. If you didn't have enough RAM to run EVE properly before...then EVE will naturally run better. This is obviously vastly more noticeable if you run multiple clients. Quote: It's just a placebo affect, you upgraded your OS so you start to believe your games run and look better. Vista uses a ****load of RAM compared to 7. Loading up multiple instances of EVE...also uses up a lot of RAM. More available RAM = game seems to run smoother. If the OP had a good amount of RAM and only ran one client, though, then you're right.
Raven Miner Gallente Phoenix Rising INC	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:03:00 - [4] 3GB's of ram and generally only one client, i just thoguht the upgrade would have meant newer system drivers which would improve all software running on the machine.
D3F4ULT Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:05:00 - [5] is it me, or when EVE boots up at first when loading station and UI really lag hardcore than before? It does this both on my laptop and PC. It hangs for about 5 seconds.
Raven Miner Gallente Phoenix Rising INC	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:08:00 - [6] Indeed it sort of does all the chat boxs are in the default position while its happening and then bang everything is back to normal.
Alex Raptos Caldari Phoenix Rising.	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:09:00 - [7] Originally by: D3F4ULT is it me, or when EVE boots up at first when loading station and UI really lag hardcore than before? It does this both on my laptop and PC. It hangs for about 5 seconds. Turn Eve Voice Off. Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've become gay for Mark Harmon despite my initial reservations about the show NCIS but nobody will ever know
D3F4ULT Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: D3F4ULT is it me, or when EVE boots up at first when loading station and UI really lag hardcore than before? It does this both on my laptop and PC. It hangs for about 5 seconds. Turn Eve Voice Off. It is. Speaking of which, that doesn't work as well for me =[ Dominion broke eve for me, good thing I use Team Speak ^.^
Alex Raptos Caldari Phoenix Rising.	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:14:00 - [9] Originally by: D3F4ULT Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: D3F4ULT is it me, or when EVE boots up at first when loading station and UI really lag hardcore than before? It does this both on my laptop and PC. It hangs for about 5 seconds. Turn Eve Voice Off. It is. Speaking of which, that doesn't work as well for me =[ Dominion broke eve for me, good thing I use Team Speak ^.^ Odd...Try turning textures down to Medium? Thats the only two changes i made and all lag everywhere disappeared. Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've become gay for Mark Harmon despite my initial reservations about the show NCIS but nobody will ever know
Mskpath3	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:16:00 - [10] Runs awesome for me, but yes, that's almost certainly because I upgraded a 5 year old PC with a top of the line, all-SSD monster machine.
D3F4ULT Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: D3F4ULT Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: D3F4ULT is it me, or when EVE boots up at first when loading station and UI really lag hardcore than before? It does this both on my laptop and PC. It hangs for about 5 seconds. Turn Eve Voice Off. It is. Speaking of which, that doesn't work as well for me =[ Dominion broke eve for me, good thing I use Team Speak ^.^ Odd...Try turning textures down to Medium? Thats the only two changes i made and all lag everywhere disappeared. Everything is on low settings for both PC and Laptop. PC Specs: Asus Pro mobo, AMD Phenom II, 4gb DDR2, 1.5tb HDD, GeForce 8500GT old but it never use to hang like this my good gfx card died, got a replacement for free, died too. Don't buy the XFX Radeon HD 4850. Never again will I buy XFX. =[ but anyways, both systems are on low settings, everything turned off running at a low resolution window mode. EVE Voice both turned off for both since neither work on either system. Both laptop and PC are Windows 7, mic headset is a Microsoft LifeChat headset. I'm still able to play, its just right when it starts loading the station and everything on bootup it hangs for about 5-10 seconds. Never did this before Dominion. =/ I might just uninstall eve and try it over again. But, i don't have the time atm.
Kethot Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.11 01:32:00 - [12] I run both Windows XP and Windows 7 64bit on the same PC, two clients. Performance is pretty much the same on both systems, it's just that Windows 7 has that horrible log-in lag. Game runs very smooth past that point.
Sentinal One	Posted - 2009.12.11 02:03:00 - [13] Isn't Windows 7 Service Pack 3 Vista without the Stigma attached to it? All they did was clean it up like Xp service pack 3, make it run better and remove alot of the useless coding from the Aero framework that caused most of the lag to begin with.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.11 03:13:00 - [14] Originally by: D3F4ULT is it me, or when EVE boots up at first when loading station and UI really lag hardcore than before? It does this both on my laptop and PC. It hangs for about 5 seconds. I'm on win7 and it does the same thing for me but it only started after the Dominion patch. It's not really much of an issue unless you logged off in a dangerous area much like I did with my fw alt who almost got popped at a planet when I logged in. By the time the client had loaded I was already on grid and targeted though thankfully I was just out of point range and did a gtfo celestial warp. Other odd things with win7 are no sound in supreme commander and certain flash sites have no sound like weeble but others do like youtube or the various flash game sites. Its probably some sort of driver hangup but alas my older audigy hasn't had an update available in over a year. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.11 03:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Sentinal One Isn't Windows 7 Service Pack 3 Vista without the Stigma attached to it? All they did was clean it up like Xp service pack 3, make it run better and remove alot of the useless coding from the Aero framework that caused most of the lag to begin with. Yes and no. Windows 7 is built on top of Vista, true, but also has some major architectural changes. It is more graphical, not less, and is much cleaner. There was a major effort put into Windows 7 and it shows in terms of performance, appearance and feature changes which were driven by user feedback. As far as the user experience is concerned, this is a completely different OS and pleasantly so. Regards, Windjammer
Nawt Ovarpwiced	Posted - 2009.12.11 03:21:00 - [16] I dont know what all the hate is for Vista I'm running Vista 64x, and other than the obvious fact that it likes to molest you're ram, it runs beautifully. on XP i'd generaly aim at re-imaging every 3mths, just with all the crap, files corrupting etc over time and me being too lazy to be botherd to maintain it properly. on Vista, im up to the year and a bit mark and its only now that it's developing symptoms of "yea i need a re-image" - and im not even sure its ready, as im pretty sure my problem is my new Soundcard not liking my motherboard I do highly recommend Windows 7 tho, im just saying, Vista isnt the bane of all evil... Windows ME was
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.11 03:22:00 - [17] Originally by: D3F4ULT is it me, or when EVE boots up at first when loading station and UI really lag hardcore than before? It does this both on my laptop and PC. It hangs for about 5 seconds. I'm running two desktops. One with XP and one with Vista 64. I notice the increased lag on both when loading upon log in. This is an effect of the Dominion release. I've also noticed a really large lag when bringing up the buddy list. This too is an effect of the Dominion release. Regards, Windjammer
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2009.12.11 03:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Windjammer Originally by: Sentinal One Isn't Windows 7 Service Pack 3 Vista without the Stigma attached to it? All they did was clean it up like Xp service pack 3, make it run better and remove alot of the useless coding from the Aero framework that caused most of the lag to begin with. Yes and no. Windows 7 is built on top of Vista, true, but also has some major architectural changes. It is more graphical, not less, and is much cleaner. There was a major effort put into Windows 7 and it shows in terms of performance, appearance and feature changes which were driven by user feedback. As far as the user experience is concerned, this is a completely different OS and pleasantly so. No, he's right actually. 7 uses the same kernel, and has the same system requirements as Vista. It's the exact same thing just with a new paintjob. They were thinking of using a slimmed down kernel named 'minwin' for awhile, but eventually ditched the idea and repackaged Vista with a couple new bells and whistles and UI tweaks. It's really kind of scary how Macintosh managed to convince everyone Vista was a failure, and would cause computers to burst into flames, simply by repeating it over and over in their deceptive ads. Always worked great for me, and anyone else i know who met the system requirements. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Xen Gin Silurian Operations	Posted - 2009.12.11 12:18:00 - [19] Edited by: Xen Gin on 11/12/2009 12:20:35 Originally by: Professor Tarantula It's really kind of scary how Macintosh managed to convince everyone Vista was a failure, and would cause computers to burst into flames, simply by repeating it over and over in their deceptive ads. Always worked great for me, and anyone else i know who met the system requirements. Damn Apple! it was them who deleted my second hard drive, didn't release drivers for any peripheral I had and caused me to hate Vista. Damn you Apple. Are you seriously that stupid? Or is it just the Apple Mac averts telling me you are? On a side note, yeah the log-in lag is annoying. I won't be logging off in space any time soon. Win 7 x64 Home Premium. ## You got that? Right I'll be back in approximately 300 seconds to retort! ##
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.11 12:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Professor Tarantula 7 uses the same kernel, and has the same system requirements as Vista. It's the exact same thing just with a new paintjob. They were thinking of using a slimmed down kernel named 'minwin' for awhile, but eventually ditched the idea and repackaged Vista with a couple new bells and whistles and UI tweaks. There are a couple of changes in Windows 7 that go a lot further than "repackaged Windows Vista" - a good example would be the changes to GDI. (btw - I can't recall reading anything about there being more modularity - and that's what is demoed by minwin - planned for Windows 7 than what we actually got in Server 2008)
Psiri	Posted - 2009.12.11 12:49:00 - [21] EVE runs perfect on Win 7 for me, I don't regret upgrading from XP.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.11 13:00:00 - [22] I upgraded from vista 64 (which I had no problems with) to windows 7 64, I notice no difference really. I had a clean vista install and did a clean W7 install, it's as fast and the game runs as mooth, uses the same memory and cpu. Only useful part I found is being able to move around your clients on the taskbar, which is handy if you have multiple accounts and are used to a certain order. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Georn VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.11 16:22:00 - [23] Originally by: D3F4ULT is it me, or when EVE boots up at first when loading station and UI really lag hardcore than before? It does this both on my laptop and PC. It hangs for about 5 seconds. Same here. I've just upgraded to Win 7 from XP64.. It takes a while (around 5-7 seconds) to load UI, chatboxes, but also the textures and shipmodel under windows 7. the loading feels choppy, things pop into existence one after the other... Only directly after login. Since when does this happen to you? did you bug report it yet? Might be some security feature on win7 though.. who knows ____________ nerf metagaming, boost fun
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.11 16:38:00 - [24] Originally by: Sentinal One Isn't Windows 7 Service Pack 3 Vista without the Stigma attached to it? All they did was clean it up like Xp service pack 3, make it run better and remove alot of the useless coding from the Aero framework that caused most of the lag to begin with. Pretty much this though I think the code changes go a little deeper. Basically if you already have some flavor of vista and are happy with it then there is no real need to upgrade to win7. However if you are still on xp then good god almighty what the ** are you waiting for as it turned my machine from what I already thought was pretty damn good performance into an absolute screamer for pretty much everything I run. Load times are almost like having a ssd compared to xp and I can easily run 5 clients with a multi tabbed browser, evemon, eft, some pron in the media player and a few other things along with a full tray of antivirus and other assorted malware swatters resident in memory. Runs smooth as butter on win7 whilst the same machine on xp thrashed the hd like a dog shaking a rat when changing focus on the various windows. Did I mention I <3 win7? Originally by:** Akita T We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.12.11 16:42:00 - [25] Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 11/12/2009 16:43:20 Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 11/12/2009 16:42:47 Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 11/12/2009 16:41:57 Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Windjammer Originally by: Sentinal One Isn't Windows 7 Service Pack 3 Vista without the Stigma attached to it? Yes and no. Windows 7 is built on top of Vista, true, but also has some major architectural changes. No, he's right actually. 7 uses the same kernel... Sorry to be a killjoy (and for the back and forth) but Wind got it on the first try. Windows 7 is version 6.1 of the Windows Kernel, a point release of Vista's version 6. It's similar, but it's not the same. Mark Russinovich and Dave Solomon's internals work is fantastic if you really want to see what changes between releases. Here's a place to start if you want to get into the nitty gritty. As for RAM usage, this has got to be one of the most misunderstood aspects of the Windows 6 kernel and Vista/7 in general. When your computer performs a task, it does so against code. Whether it's static code, or user supplied data, it executes against something. CPUs MUST pull this data from RAM. If it can't find it in RAM, it must pull it from another location, load it into RAM, and then execute. As everyone's aware, Hard drives, optical media, even flash memory is pitiful in speed compared to local RAM. This is why having more RAM often makes such a performance enhancement. The more data in RAM, the less calls to slower storage you have to make. If you have a system where you know data is going to need to be loaded into RAM eventually, you might as well do it sooner rather than later. This is called prefetching, and it's a strategy by which you load RAM with data and programs that will most likely be needed rather than waiting for that eventual request to come through. The RAM is filled with frequently used data and code. If a request comes through that requires that information, then the computer is one step ahead. If it's not there, then it has to make a call to the hard drive all the same. The penalty for rewriting the RAM still pales to having had to access the hard drive in the first place. Prefetching gives a frequent benefit with virtually no penalty. UNIX (including OSX) and Linux have had this functionality for years. But only in Windows Vista did this appear for the first time. This is totally the reverse for Windows XP, which frees memory as often as it can. Users who watched RAM usage in XP ae now staring at Vista going "what the hell?" This is good! Your RAM is actually be used for what it should be, a fast local cache, rather than sitting empty. Vista's prefetcher keeps track of what programs you execute most often and over time, starts loading these into memory immediately following the boot process. (I see this most often when loading IE. I use Firefox all of the time, and it loads instantly. I use IE once in a blue moon, and it takes forever. On other systems where I use it exclusively, it's instant.) Vista was a huge change over XP. The entire graphics, audio, and networking stacks were rewritten. NVidia and ATI both struggled with drivers for a long time (which lead to a lot of early issues; I believe there's a rant on Gizmodo today in fact which is actually related to an ATI driver issue for an older machine.) 7 is indeed more polished, but it comes 3 years after hardware and software vendors have had Vista to work with. I feel to some extent, the pain was unavoidable. Had 7 released instead of Vista, it might have been a bit more polished, but I think it would have suffered from the same growing pains.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.11 16:57:00 - [26] Edited by: Marko Riva on 11/12/2009 16:57:41 Exactly, and that's why people who had proper PC's didn't have any of the "omg vista sucks and is slow" growing pains and people who had PC's who just weren't up for the task, or were upgraded (keeping all the old crap) or simply gotten vista on their new PC they bought at a grocery store for 299 DID have speed issues. I never had any speed issues with Vista, on the contrary it actually made use of the memory I had and that's why I don't see any speed advantages over Vista now that I have windows 7. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Joe Skellington Minmatar JOKAS Industries	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:12:00 - [27] This pretty much summed up Vista for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOh6Nh8w6f8
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Joe Skellington This pretty much summed up Vista for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOh6Nh8w6f8 When vista was first released? Hell yeah. Hardly anyone I knew was even close to having a system that could run vista without crashing and burning and even the few who did still crashed and burned until proper drivers were introduced. Vista sucked major arse until service pack 2. Also one thing that has irked me for every muthafrakin release of windows. WHY DO THEY ALWAYS CHANGE THE LOCATION, NAME AND METHOD OF USING THE MOAST BASIC SYSTEM TOOLS AND UTLITIES!?! WHRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!! Originally by: Akita T We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".
Joe Skellington Minmatar JOKAS Industries	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Joe Skellington This pretty much summed up Vista for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOh6Nh8w6f8 When vista was first released? Hell yeah. Hardly anyone I knew was even close to having a system that could run vista without crashing and burning and even the few who did still crashed and burned until proper drivers were introduced. Vista sucked major arse until service pack 2. Also one thing that has irked me for every muthafrakin release of windows. WHY DO THEY ALWAYS CHANGE THE LOCATION, NAME AND METHOD OF USING THE MOAST BASIC SYSTEM TOOLS AND UTLITIES!?! WHRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!! Yeah I believe so, I never went to Vista because it had so many issues and by the time it started to level out, Windows 7 was on the horizon.I decided to wait at least a few months after 7 was released to upgrade, since there are always bugs after a release goes gold.
Jimi Tetro Vanquish Inc	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:37:00 - [30] I found Vista handled 2 eve clients much better than XP. Not noticed any real different in Windows 7 when compared to Vista.
D3F4ULT Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:39:00 - [31] Originally by: Jimi Tetro I found Vista handled 2 eve clients much better than XP. Not noticed any real different in Windows 7 when compared to Vista. Vista I could run 3 clients no issues no lag. Windows 7 just has that "log on lag" that others has mentioned.
Joe Skellington Minmatar JOKAS Industries	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:40:00 - [32] Originally by: D3F4ULT Originally by: Jimi Tetro I found Vista handled 2 eve clients much better than XP. Not noticed any real different in Windows 7 when compared to Vista. Vista I could run 3 clients no issues no lag. Windows 7 just has that "log on lag" that others has mentioned. Most likely it's a video driver issue.
brutoid Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.11 18:00:00 - [33] Originally by: D3F4ULT Windows 7 just has that "log on lag" that others has mentioned. I dual boot between 7 and XP, like someone mentioned earlier, the 'log on lag' happens on both. Never happened before Dominion.
Griller SW Gallente ORE-TECH Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.11 18:06:00 - [34] To be fair, in my case Vista ran just fine from the beginning, but I like Win 7 more As for EVE performance, while I do have this "Log on lag" thing going too, two clients seem to run ok so far. Probably a vid card update is due next year, heheh. ------ No good deed goes unpunished...
Pericles Redstorm Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.11 18:27:00 - [35] Vista also had some problems with nVidia Geforce graphics cards so in my case I couldn't run my graphics as high as I can on 7 because it would freeze up. --------------------------------------- Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.11 18:36:00 - [36] The log on lag comes from EVE Voice, disable it and all is fine. I ran 5 accounts in Vista just fine with a 6th making it decent, no change in W7. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.11 18:41:00 - [37] Edited by: Zeba on 11/12/2009 18:43:23 Originally by: Marko Riva The log on lag comes from EVE Voice, disable it and all is fine. I ran 5 accounts in Vista just fine with a 6th making it decent, no change in W7. Confirmed. Eve voice disabled means near instant load. edit: and turning eve voice back on makes the game lag again until it finishes whatever it is doing. Originally by: Akita T We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".
Xen Gin Silurian Operations	Posted - 2009.12.11 18:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Marko Riva The log on lag comes from EVE Voice, disable it and all is fine. I ran 5 accounts in Vista just fine with a 6th making it decent, no change in W7. Yeah, disabling EVE Voice worked for me. But still they should probably fix that. ## You got that? Right I'll be back in approximately 300 seconds to retort! ##
Clone 1 Occision	Posted - 2009.12.11 18:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Joe Skellington Originally by: D3F4ULT Originally by: Jimi Tetro I found Vista handled 2 eve clients much better than XP. Not noticed any real different in Windows 7 when compared to Vista. Vista I could run 3 clients no issues no lag. Windows 7 just has that "log on lag" that others has mentioned. Most likely it's a video driver issue. It happens on nVidia and ATI cards, so no. As others have reported disabling eve voice helps. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box
Altair Alhammajid Minmatar Remedy Inc. Confusio Universalis Ravagicus Extremous	Posted - 2009.12.11 19:15:00 - [40] yeah, I have no intention of upgrading to 7 anytime soon. I have used 64bit Vista for a year or so now and I have not had a problem. I started using Vista after SP2 was released so I didn't have to deal with the driver growing pains. My big question is though, I'm not very good with programming, but if you are having a driver issue, isn't it the hardware developers fault for not writing a proper code to be compatible with the OS? Funny thing is, as this thread continues to prove, those with proper hardware don't have problems with vista and those who bought the bottom of the line dell for $400 do. I run a 64 bit system with 8 gb of 800mhz ddr2 ram on a asus m2n-32 wireless deluxe with a amd athalon x2 6400+ black edition 3.2ghz and I don't have to worry about ram issues. I run 2 gtx 260s in sli giving me 1.5 gb of video memory. No problem here. Yeah, windows should have done better with the ram managment on vista, but the prefetching protocol is pretty sweet. Don't know what took microsoft so long.
Georn VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.11 19:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Marko Riva The log on lag comes from EVE Voice, disable it and all is fine. I ran 5 accounts in Vista just fine with a 6th making it decent, no change in W7. worked. Thanks for the advice. I don't rue the upgrade to Win7 best thing I could do.. Vista users might feel differently, but it is a huge step from XP64. It seems to be a bit more stable.. I may still ruin this though, after I found out where to tweak everything to death like I'm used to in XP :D ____________ nerf metagaming, boost fun
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2009.12.11 19:57:00 - [42] Originally by: Altair Alhammajid if you are having a driver issue, isn't it the hardware developers fault for not writing a proper code to be compatible with the OS? Indeed it is. And now that i think of it, the only problem i ever had with Vista was when the new GTX 8800 i bought, which had a big "Vista ready" sticker on the box, wasn't quite so Vista ready. Took a couple months for them to release proper drivers. My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.11 20:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Altair Alhammajid if you are having a driver issue, isn't it the hardware developers fault for not writing a proper code to be compatible with the OS? Indeed it is. And now that i think of it, the only problem i ever had with Vista was when the new GTX 8800 i bought, which had a big "Vista ready" sticker on the box, wasn't quite so Vista ready. Took a couple months for them to release proper drivers. win7 got that one right immediately with lots of whql drivers included with the disk. I didn't need any disk other than the win7 install to get a complete set of oem drivers for all the hardware including the motherboard right off the bat with updates directly from windows update once it was installed. M$ is getting better it seems. Originally by: Akita T We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".

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