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Cuppa Coffee
L'Occident
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Posted - 2009.12.11 08:58:00 -
[1]
Hello everyone,
Wanting to experience as many aspects of EVE as possible,I recently started trading. I began with 50 million ISK, of which 25 went on expensive skillbooks fairly quickly, leaving me with a small amount of collateral. Nevertheless, I ploughed on, and a few days later I had doubled my money, and was hooked :) Right now I seem to be at an interesting stage between wanting low value orders and high value orders, the result being a mixture of both.
I have a question for the gurus:
ATM I only have 53 order slots, and it's already becoming tricky to manage them. Are there any tips on how to organise your orders in a more accessible way?
Thanks in advance!
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Magnu Stormhawk
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Posted - 2009.12.11 09:13:00 -
[2]
Hmm, not really to be honest. How are you trading - station only? buying region wide? are you selling at a hub or all over the place? High vol/low value or low vol/high value? People operate in different ways depending on what suits them, you'll generally work out an easier way of handling them as you learn more about the trading style that suits you.
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Yamashita Miharu
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Posted - 2009.12.11 09:17:00 -
[3]
there arent much IG tools to organize your orders, I do just fine with the quickbar and the order overview
But if you realy want to keep your overview, you need to buy a bigger display 
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Snasty
Caldari
The Hippies
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.12.11 09:19:00 -
[4]
You have not really said what type of trades you are running, IÆll assume you are station trading? ...and If by manage you mean keep them competitive, I run 257 orders and find that the sheer number of active orders means that I don't actually have to manage them so much, a decent percentage are usually getting good face time on the market.
When I had few orders I was worried about their performance a great deal more than I am now.
IÆm at the stage now that a full top to bottom check of all orders is performed weekly at
most; I still make about 100 million per day profit, almost passively.
Perhaps the best key to avoid having to constantly adjusting them would be to avoid Jita of course.
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-=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=- |
Cuppa Coffee
L'Occident
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Posted - 2009.12.11 09:26:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Cuppa Coffee on 11/12/2009 09:28:21
Maybe 3/4 of my orders are station trades and provide the most 'regular' income. I also have a group of opportunistic high value, high margin, low volume orders. I suppose that if I just base all the first group of orders in one station and the others in another, that might help a little. Thanks for the feedback anyway :)
And yes, I need a bigger screen! (13.3 inch macbook =/)
Ed. for the above post: Yes, I've found that too. My initial orders were constantly micromanaged, but I've found out that you can't win them all, at least sanely.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2009.12.11 10:29:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Snasty
...the sheer number of active orders means that I don't actually have to manage them so much, a decent percentage are usually getting good face time on the market.
This, right here, is the best advice you'll find on MD on any given day.
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EvilCheez
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Posted - 2009.12.11 10:37:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Wanting to experience as many aspects of EVE as possible,I recently started trading. I began with 50 million ISK, of which 25 went on expensive skillbooks fairly quickly, leaving me with a small amount of collateral.
If you are talking about advanced learning skillbooks - I did the same thing. One of the things I would change if I had it to do over would be not to spend so much on fancy implants and other things that only contribute marginal gains. My reason for this is that isk compounds exponentially, so while you will have a few more skillpoints at the end of the day if you buy a set of +5s or will have better tanking with a slave set, you may pay literally billions for them considering how high your compounding rate can be when you are starting out. Its also why I suggest manufacturers avoid bpo's in favor of bpc's, but most disagree with me on that.
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Rene Sauntier
Gallente
Carbide Cross Commonwealth
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Posted - 2009.12.11 12:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: EvilCheez
Quote:
Wanting to experience as many aspects of EVE as possible,I recently started trading. I began with 50 million ISK, of which 25 went on expensive skillbooks fairly quickly, leaving me with a small amount of collateral.
If you are talking about advanced learning skillbooks - I did the same thing. One of the things I would change if I had it to do over would be not to spend so much on fancy implants and other things that only contribute marginal gains. My reason for this is that isk compounds exponentially, so while you will have a few more skillpoints at the end of the day if you buy a set of +5s or will have better tanking with a slave set, you may pay literally billions for them considering how high your compounding rate can be when you are starting out. Its also why I suggest manufacturers avoid bpo's in favor of bpc's, but most disagree with me on that.
You sir speak the truth
"What I cannot create, I do not understand." |
Mr Bussy
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Posted - 2009.12.11 12:53:00 -
[9]
there is not much you can do regarding organizing of orders... youo have list of orders and you need to check that list regularly to find out whether your competitors undercut you or not.
I personally have approx 150 running orders (one station) and check them one or two times per day. Later you will find out that you have more active competitors on some items so you have to check them really twice a day )or such) and other do not need your attention for a week till competitors update theirs.
Another critical thing for me is spradsheet - best friend of any serious trader. I export my market acitivites regularly (approx every 6 days since there is a limit of 1000 entries/transactions in export). I put them into XLS and I analyze data. This means that I count average buy price and average sell price and then logically average gross margin. Afte few weeks/months you will easily find out which items are most profitable so you can decide whether keep trading with specific item.
Later yu will find out that 54 orders is sure not enough (imho). Since there is definatelly more items which can provide good profit. so even when I originally planned to have never more then approx 50 order I was "forced" to skill for more since more orders = more bandwidth = more isk.
TL&DR: spreadsheet is what you need to have precise idea what is going on.
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Leana Darkrider
Minmatar
Creatio -ex- nihilo
The Donkey Rollers
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Posted - 2009.12.11 14:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cuppa Coffee
I have a question for the gurus:
ATM I only have 53 order slots, and it's already becoming tricky to manage them. Are there any tips on how to organise your orders in a more accessible way?
Thanks in advance!
uhm, nope not really.
I have tycoon lvl4, and all orders are filled. It's a pain in the @rse to update the orders.
But the drive that keeps me going, is the ISK that I get out of it
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If only EVE could cook, if only.... |
Hanh Solo
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Posted - 2009.12.11 21:17:00 -
[11]
I use eve commander to download all my contract data and create my own excel workbook/Portfolio DB. It makes it a bit less stressful if you can create your own tool. 
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Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2009.12.11 21:31:00 -
[12]
Hello,
Its customary to read the stickies. I point you to this onefor basic questions and answers.
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clixoras
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Posted - 2009.12.12 12:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mr Bussy
Another critical thing for me is spradsheet - best friend of any serious trader. I export my market acitivites regularly (approx every 6 days since there is a limit of 1000 entries/transactions in export). I put them into XLS and I analyze data. This means that I count average buy price and average sell price and then logically average gross margin. Afte few weeks/months you will easily find out which items are most profitable so you can decide whether keep trading with specific item.
You know that there are tools out that that do all this with a few mouse-clicks right?
I use evetrader for day to day overview and EMMA for monthly analysis.
Concerning the OP question about orders, i use 53 orders also and rarely need more. And i have a pretty diverse order portfolio. The trick is to know your limits, if it becomes to tedious to update all your orders then you'll wear out fast.
Besides, there is a good chance 80% of your profit comes from your top 10 items. As there probably is more competition on those top 10 items i choose to give those a bit more love then go long tail.
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Cuppa Coffee
L'Occident
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Posted - 2009.12.15 13:58:00 -
[14]
Thanks for all the replies everyone, they are very helpful.
Regarding the last comment, yes, I found pretty quickly that the majority of my ISK came from a few items, leaving me free to cancel those less profitable ones (regionwide small ammo order...ughh).
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Aavnagh Do
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Posted - 2009.12.15 15:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Aavnagh Do on 15/12/2009 15:18:12
Originally by: Cuppa Coffee
Thanks for all the replies everyone, they are very helpful.
Regarding the last comment, yes, I found pretty quickly that the majority of my ISK came from a few items, leaving me free to cancel those less profitable ones (regionwide small ammo order...ughh).
I started couple of days ago (literally, 5 to be precise). Still trying to figure everything out (what, where, when, the usual stuff). Spending some daily time on the market (and collecting my wares), after i finished I do other stuff (agents mostly, since my char is quite new and mining is boring as hell). But I personally would never ever cancel less profitable orders. Only if there are more profitable ones.
There is a saying: Profit is profit is profit. As long as I make money with them I trade them. Even if the profit per item at the end is just 1 ISK. If you get a new strong competitor on your "high selling" stuff, who can do prices you'll never reach, you're fked and sit on thousand of items in your cargohold with no actual income. But if you have a strong whidespread portfolio, you have more chances to survive.
btw: market is more stressing than pvp... you need brain :)
edit: and ofc it is just my opinion. maybe I'm totally wrong
// Cybersex can make you go blind! |
Cuppa Coffee
L'Occident
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Posted - 2009.12.15 20:20:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cuppa Coffee on 15/12/2009 20:21:03
Originally by: Aavnagh Do
Edited by: Aavnagh Do on 15/12/2009 15:18:12
Originally by: Cuppa Coffee
Thanks for all the replies everyone, they are very helpful.
Regarding the last comment, yes, I found pretty quickly that the majority of my ISK came from a few items, leaving me free to cancel those less profitable ones (regionwide small ammo order...ughh).
I started couple of days ago (literally, 5 to be precise). Still trying to figure everything out (what, where, when, the usual stuff). Spending some daily time on the market (and collecting my wares), after i finished I do other stuff (agents mostly, since my char is quite new and mining is boring as hell). But I personally would never ever cancel less profitable orders. Only if there are more profitable ones.
There is a saying: Profit is profit is profit. As long as I make money with them I trade them. Even if the profit per item at the end is just 1 ISK. If you get a new strong competitor on your "high selling" stuff, who can do prices you'll never reach, you're fked and sit on thousand of items in your cargohold with no actual income. But if you have a strong whidespread portfolio, you have more chances to survive.
btw: market is more stressing than pvp... you need brain :)
edit: and ofc it is just my opinion. maybe I'm totally wrong
I only cancelled the orders that are clogging up my limited market slots and don't make any realistic profit for the time I invest in them; item A has a margin of 600k for about 1 minute of work, item B has a margin of 2k for a similar time investment (these are real items and figures). They also shift in equal volumes.
I'd rather spend the time I would have spent on item B looking for more items similar to A, and not tie up my liquid cash. Of course, I could also switch to my "ISK button" character for some insta-isk, or to my PvP main for a different sort of fun (which also needs a brain if you do it properly :) )
ed. past tense inserted
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.15 20:30:00 -
[17]
Train up Retail V, and then Wholesale, when you can afford it. It means the world when trying to manage orders.
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Opportunity Costs
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.15 23:49:00 -
[18]
hint: try the implants market
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- Mining your own minerals doesnt drop your manufacturing costs!
- Marginal earnings is what actually counts
- Time is isk and enjoyment is isk aswell |
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