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Tista
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Posted - 2009.12.13 01:36:00 -
[1]
The concept of a command ship fills 2 roles, the first is that they provide defined bonuses to a gang without even entering combat, The second of which is to provide advanced high power combat ability and to tackle even the biggest of ships whilst sustaining a tank and dishing out amazing damage.
Now, there are many issues with this ship class and I will attempt to address all of them.
The first is the fact that these ship classes are known to be extremely powerful, they are known to hold the potential to turn the tide of combat and due to this command ships destroy their advantage.
The second of which is their price tag, this will come into play later.
In a fleet of sustancial size a command ship will almost always be primaried, this is due to the fact that in fleet combat of such a size a single kill counts for nothing.. so why not skip the biggest threats (since there are usually no single ships threatening enough to worry an experienced FC) and move straight onto the ones that will provide nice juicey killmails for your killboard.
Hence one of the issues with command ships.
So in large combat situations your command ship will be at great risk, now for smaller engagments.
Usually in small gang combat command ships are often seen as a huge threat, the big daddy of small fleet warfare.. the one ship you want backing you.. or the one ship you do not want to see.
So here comes the "flee for your life" factor of command ships, they are a huge threat.. and everybody knows it.. so when you see that bugger on the field you know to get your ass outa there.. or primary it.
So there is another issue.. people run from your exponentially powerful ship.
Now back to the cost of your command ship.. here comes the real kick in the balls for those command ship pilots.. who will almost ALL agree with me when I say that teir 2 battlecruisers more than make up for the slight bonuses of tech 2 battlecruisers with their low cost and high versitility.
So you have the option.. spend 120-200mil on your command ship with highly increased bonuses, or stick to your bog standard 30mil... less threatening.. understated teir 2 battlecruiser.
I find the con's far outweigh the pro's of this ship in the sense that they are very very very good ships.. yet it is their biggest downfall.. they are too good and thus they are evaded, or taken down far too quickly to be useful.
That is.. only my opinon.. and I could indeed be a million miles off but I thought I'd try to explain the issue in words.
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"this is the templar fighter used by carriers"
Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Eli Porter
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Posted - 2009.12.13 01:45:00 -
[2]
Agreed. Field CS's lack a defined role, and need something to differentiate themselves further from BC's. It can't be DPS/survivability since this is clearly not the issue. I'd like em to give some kind of extra gang bonus, but I can't think of anything that won't be ridiculous or overstepping the toes of other ships.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.13 01:57:00 -
[3]
In less words, the introduction of tier 2 battlecruisers has almost rendered command ships obsolete.
They needed to get a buff, a "look at command ships" has been promised for at least two major expansion but never made it in any of them.
And the introduction of the warfare link subsystem for T3 cruisers hasn't helped either 
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2009.12.13 02:38:00 -
[4]
With Akitas post about tier scaling, i can only plug my own post about tech scaling.
Tier two BC are not the problem, insufficient slot-scaling overall for CS is.
Search for it and go read it.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.12.13 14:15:00 -
[5]
mmm.. agreed.
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"this is the templar fighter used by carriers"
Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Poldarn Joaq
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.12.14 13:08:00 -
[6]
I can see where you are coming from, but really its not so hard to get a good jump point that is on the grid away from a fleet battle. The total bonus of a fully skilled and equiped fleet command is awesome. Get your scout to get you a safe(ish) spot outside of the main conflict.
They cost a lot because they are very good at what they do and you dont need many of them if you keep them safe.
Another option is (wrt the vulture) to fly with a sheild repping gang. If you are the lynchpin then a decent gang will actually keep you alive.
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Thats no moon!!
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Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.14 13:15:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Poldarn Joaq
I can see where you are coming from, but really its not so hard to get a good jump point that is on the grid away from a fleet battle. The total bonus of a fully skilled and equiped fleet command is awesome. Get your scout to get you a safe(ish) spot outside of the main conflict.
They cost a lot because they are very good at what they do and you dont need many of them if you keep them safe.
Another option is (wrt the vulture) to fly with a sheild repping gang. If you are the lynchpin then a decent gang will actually keep you alive.
That may apply to a small degree to the Fleet Command ships (The Vulture you mentioned, the Damnation, Eos and Claymore) but it's not a sensible option for the Field Command ships (which you may notice as the title of the thread) like the Absolution, Nighthawk, Astarte and Sliepnir.
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Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Jose Black
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Posted - 2009.12.14 13:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Poldarn Joaq
[..]fleet command[..]
While your advice is all legit it just doesn't match the topic. The heading reads field command ships.
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Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.12.14 13:44:00 -
[9]
While your argument on cost/effect may true on some points, there is another factor named manpower. At small scale roaming gangs you will mostly use t2 hacs - or if you can afford less mobility BC's. Same thing applies to fleet command ships with choosing a hac over a t2 cruiser - given same number of fleet members, having extra bonuses, resists and slots, you get the chance of doubling the efficency - with cost of lots of millions isk. When getting into "nearly even" fights (means one side isn't a blob comparing with the other) such difference means trashing the other side complately or continue to flying in lot smaller egg shaped craft.
Truth is, i never had the chance flying any field command other than sleipnir, And that ship seemed reasonable for it's cost to me.
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Azirapheal
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.12.14 14:08:00 -
[10]
some of the fleet command ships are in the wrong place imho. damnation should be field absolution should be fleet. purely because the damnation boasts the extra tank and with a good HAM setup is an absoulte ganking monster.
absolution however while packing a hard defence, would be better suited to hiding with its tank and pretty mediocre combat ability and running the gang links
chief problem is tier 2 battlecruisers, they fill the roles of the command ships far too well and at much cheaper cost. so why bother with command ships unless you REALLY want to have 3 links running.
its sad to see the nighthawk and the absolution reduced to being mission ships for their tank but viable solutions need to be found.
howabout INNATE gang bonuses?
field ships give the equivalent of ONE link of the racial type, fleets get two. and you may run gang links on top of these?
would that balance things for the pvp crowd and make them worth the cost?
just think of the damnation packing the equivalent of 5 armored warfare links :D now its worth the cost :)
Originally by: Azirapheal
i never ever thought id live to see the day.... that titans were nerfed for being FOTM HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
SoonÖ
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