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Van Cleef
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.12.14 03:10:00 -
[31]
While there is no date on the information that you have provided concerning mass employment and a resurgent economy, the last published report on 03 December showed losses for three straight quarters under Heth's regime. Further are those new found jobs and assets you speak of a result of the seizure and quarantine of Gallante assets in the State that were instituted by Heth on 22 May. The Amarrian investment into the State can be seen only as their motives of mutual defense. The Amarrians need the State to temper the Gallente / Minmatar Pact. Had Heth not invaded into Gallente space there would not even be a need for that balance. -----------------------------------------------
Admiral Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
Jakiin
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Posted - 2009.12.14 03:29:00 -
[32]
Could you please give us a link to this report? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer' |
Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.12.14 04:06:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Van Cleef The assumptions that CAIN is somehow not a keeper of the State is a falsehood
Prove it. Leave OWN Alliance (which you quickly hide from view when you originally posted) and work to suppress piracy in any region of the State you desire. Hells, prove that we are better off working with the Federal paramilitaries in Placid and suppress piracy there. If you really, really needed to go into null sec, you probably could have asked to join I-RED.
You caste criticism and damnation from some null sec station, fresh from more than 6 months of war in Providence and the edge of the Amarr Empire. Don't tell me you are keepers of the State, when it is clear by the public records that CAIN's pilots have barely graced the State with their presence in more than 6 months.
You don't like Heth, we get it. I am not too fond of him either, but I am not going to sell out my megacorporation and nation because I don't like one of the eight leaders. If you think running away from the State is going to change anything you are wrong.
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Halunoto Vankaalen
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.12.14 17:04:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Irana Konstanus He also called out the Caldari elite for their complacency and general incompetence in directing the State in a positive direction. Yet, you screech at the slightest hint of disagreement.
Obviously, the replies in this thread come from people who see quite a disparity in the State they live and work in, and the one described by Van Cleef. They've provided evidence that stands in stark contrast to his claims.
CAIN's bias on this particular issue is not unrecorded either, they were making the same claims 19 months ago. However the general sentiment here seems to be one of clear improvement.
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Van Cleef
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.12.16 01:51:00 -
[35]
CAIN has done exactly what you are asking of Dex for years. We founded two Caldari Alliances to bring the Caldari people together, fought a very long and very taxing war in the Mito Constellation against two of the largest anti-state groups, of which pilot Vankaalen, fresh from his service with The Black Rabbits state terrorist group - was a apart of.
CAIN has a very lenghtly history of attempting to bring the Caldari People together, and each time we ran into opposition from the 7,8 and 10 man corporations that were more interested in hiding behind CAIN's military wing than fighting for themselves. These corporations refused to work as a group instead of joining together.
The decision to leave State space after fighting against the FDU for over a year and a half was not an easy one to make, but after the State made their position clear about us (See here: A Meeting with Judas), we decided the best path for us as a group was to leave the State to protect State traditions, honor, and history outside of the grasp and influence of Heth.
It's not a matter of "liking" or "disliking" Heth. Heth has succeded in creating a parrallel government to the CEP with the CPD. The CPD answers to Heth wishes, and CEP is the collection of megacorporations and a reflection of the shareholders and the people of the State. The CPD is unchecked in it's power, already seizing power away from the CEP. He is not one of eight megacorporation CEO's, he is the de facto dictator of the Caldari State and his changes are sacrificing short term gains for the subjegation of our people over the long term.
We are not running away from the State, in fact we call all Patriots and true believers in the State to join us while in protecting our traditions. Why would anyone who believes that Heth is leading the State in a direction not in the spirt and the intentions of our leaders who brought us from destruction to the position of domination we once held.
I spoke with I-Red about State activities and they choose their lot in Providence with CVA. I do not question their loyality concerning their actions, and I wish them luck in their endevours.
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Admiral Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.12.16 06:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Van Cleef It's not a matter of "liking" or "disliking" Heth. Heth has succeded in creating a parrallel government to the CEP with the CPD. The CPD answers to Heth wishes, and CEP is the collection of megacorporations and a reflection of the shareholders and the people of the State. The CPD is unchecked in it's power, already seizing power away from the CEP. He is not one of eight megacorporation CEO's, he is the de facto dictator of the Caldari State and his changes are sacrificing short term gains for the subjegation of our people over the long term.
And in this we have been in disagreement for 19 months.
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Van Cleef
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.12.20 05:41:00 -
[37]
You disagree with the fact that the CPD is the main power house over the CEP or that Heth is the de facto dictator. I can give supporting evidence for either, hell it seems you can't read any ISD report that mentions Heth without the words "Caldari Dictator" in the report lately.
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Admiral Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
Vendrin
Caldari Veto.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 09:36:00 -
[38]
Quote: CAIN has a very lenghtly history of attempting to bring the Caldari People together, and each time we ran into opposition from the 7,8 and 10 man corporations that were more interested in hiding behind CAIN's military wing than fighting for themselves. These corporations refused to work as a group instead of joining together.
That's not how I remember it. After all, your idea of joining together was "do what we tell you to, because we know best." And APEX was quite a bit larger then 7, 8 and 10 man corporations.
Now, that aside, I'll admit the mistakes I made, and going back, I actually probably would have decided to shut up and do what CAIN told us to, if it would have led to a lasting Caldari loyalist alliance, as my arrogance isn't quite as large as it once was. But don't hold yourself blameless in the foundering of those alliances, because you tried it twice, and the second time, the only corporation from the Kimotoro Directive participating was CAIN.
I accept the blame for my mistakes, but CAIN has never gotten around to doing the same, and maybe that's why so many corporations have had problems taking orders from CAIN despite it's success in other areas.
But hey, I'm just an ex-citizen pirate now, and you would just disregard my statement even if I wasn't, because that's what you do best, be so self assured of your own positions. A pity for the State, those positions no longer are within it. _______________________________
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Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.12.20 16:09:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Van Cleef You disagree with the fact that the CPD is the main power house over the CEP or that Heth is the de facto dictator. I can give supporting evidence for either, hell it seems you can't read any ISD report that mentions Heth without the words "Caldari Dictator" in the report lately.
You can give supporting evidence that the media (principally foreign media) portrays him and the CEO of KK paints himself as the leader of the State and that the CPD is another extra-corporate body.
If he is a dictator he is a powerless one as the other seven corporations are off doing whatever they want: from internal wars and corporate espionage to backroom deals with the Guristas and the Gallente. This state of affairs did not take long to arise following the liberation of Caldari Prime.
Or the partnership formed in the wake of Malaklen was just that and KK's CEO lacks dictatorial powers. If this is the case, the best way to reduce his influence and power is to strengthen other megacorporations' political positions.
And I am now repeating myself within this very thread.
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Van Cleef
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.12.20 22:41:00 -
[40]
Vendrin I wasn't refering to you, or to APEX, the comment made was referenced to people long after our working relationship had fallen off. CAIN and APEX's relationship wasn't necessarly the best, but it was better than most have. The situation surrounding that relationship pretty much doomed it to fail.
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Admiral Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Serve the State Join Channel CAINCOM |
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