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EoKI - On the Caldari

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Halete Echoes of Korgoth Initiative 154	Posted - 2012.06.19 14:29:00 - [1] - Quote YC 114, 19th of June. The proxy war still wages on. Untold numbers of my people, the Matari people, still abhor the State. Many still aren't truly sure why; many of my kin simply recognize that the Caldari are allies to the Empire and thus are our enemies. But isn't it worth further investigation than that? After all, the State and the Empire are merely allies of circumstance. The Caldari are indebted to the Amarr much in the same way the Minmatar are indebted to the Federation, which houses a large portion of our populace. What I am saying today, I say without fear. For I may be criticized by my kin, I may be shunned and beaten, but I do so as a harbinger of change. I have consulted with the Spirits. My only interests lie with the Tribes. I come forth and I tell you, brothers and sisters - the Caldari are not our enemies. Make no mistake, I am aware that there are Caldari that harm us. There are some who would further the agenda of the Empire not through profit, but also malice. But the State itself present an opportunity that we would be blind to ignore. The Republic focuses on it's war effort. Many die in refugee camps in our space. We free slaves every day, but whilst we cannot feed our own population. Many are introduced to freedom - but a life of poverty. Yes, we all know of Skarkon. But do not confuse me for a nay-sayer. Free every slave, I say! But let us concentrate on infrastructure, not Battleships. Let's focus on education, not militarization. Let us free not just our brothers in body but in minds! But of course, we cannot have both. Despite what the Republic will tell you, as you can see, there is evidence that we cannot focus on the war effort and also the home front. Simply halting the military effort would be condemning our own blood - so what then do we do? I say, let's look towards the Caldari. Who better suited to help the tribes than the people of Caldari-Prime, who were taught diligence and efficiency by their bitter planet? We are not so different. Now, I know that this is a point of contention and I will say this - the Caldari Corporations are not the clans of the Minmatar. But they have learned our tribal loyalty. They understand the importance of individual commitment and productivity. They respect their elders and the ancestors. And of course, if you wish to reflect upon what it means to be a true Minmatar - look no further than not a tribal, but the Caldari's Tovil-Toba. We will never the State use our culture as a fad. We will never see the tribes twisted by the Caldari until they are a distorted caricature of the Caldari themselves. We will never because the Caldari recognize the importance of independent values and heritage. We cannot afford to perpetuate this war as we stand. Several Caldari subsidiaries have already declared interest in trading with the Minmatar. It is an opportunity we cannot afford to slip. Yes, the Federation have helped our people. We owe them a great deal. It is precisely for this reason why we cannot afford to lose more ground to the Federation and must seek new frontiers. The refugees which immigrate to the Gallente may know comfort, but at the price of their own Matari blood. It is time, my brothers and sisters, to put aside our anger before it burns this new world of ours down. Who, if any, will stand with me? --- This thread will be monitored, but no questions will be answered. Questions should be directed to myself on a private channel and I will attempt to respond in a timely manner. However, if anybody - whether individual or a corporate entity - find themselves in agreement I beseech you to raise your voice here and now. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in.
Aphoxema G My Little Rifter 307	Posted - 2012.06.19 14:40:00 - [2] - Quote I'm compelled to agree. Maybe all of the empires have something worth taking from, but what seems most relevant right now to the Minmatar is stability and a chance for the next generations to decide our fates rather than impress on them the war we've fought. The Federation may have done much to uncover the Minmatar of the rubble, but their... insistence on violence is not something we need to make a part of ourselves. Changes that focus on better decision making rather than better computers and connections. [ http://tinyurl.com/czwxolr-á] Identify "North" [ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ]
Malcolm Khross Wiyrkomi Honor Guard 324	Posted - 2012.06.19 15:09:00 - [3] - Quote Saisieni EoKI, There is wisdom in your ability to stand back and assess the situation apart from the circumstances you are presently in. That you see merit in considering different paths, that you evaluate consequences and contemplate the future. It is impossible for me to comment without doing an extreme disservice to the Gallente and likely to you as well. The Gallente and their Federation are well-meaning in their pursuits but, like most of us, are capable of committing great grievances in the pursuit of good intentions. Even should the time come that the Republic seeks to distance itself from the Federation (not necessarily fully, but to a degree), please do not forget the kindnesses they have offered in the past. The Caldari are not your enemies, this is very true. The points you make are valid and well reasoned. We are not devoid of the capacity for selfishness and dishonesty, however. It is a possibility that some elements of the State would take advantage of your people and the opportunities presented by a new business field. While it is my word to you that Wiyrkomi would never engage in such practices, nor would the Honor Guard, I cannot speak for other corporations. Whatever path your people choose to walk from this point forward, may it be one of wisdom and clarity; may it bring you a profitable future and a degree of stability and security that you have fought long and hard for. For our part, Wiyrkomi Honor Guard wishes you success and peace. ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon Honor Guard Recruitment Video ((OOC WHG PR Video))
Katrina Oniseki Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 618	Posted - 2012.06.19 15:21:00 - [4] - Quote The Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive has no official statement to make at this time.
Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 130	Posted - 2012.06.19 15:27:00 - [5] - Quote No one's bloody natural enemies to anyone. Both the Federation and the Caldari are capitalistic and meritocratic (Caldari society was shaped by the Gallente one for five hundred years, after all), but hey, thanks to how politics works, and I'm just repeating UoC e-lectures here, the powers that be keep divisions in place. Given the opportunity, a human being will be apathetic. If the State corporations did not use overt propaganda to say how much the Federation is the enemy of the Caldari people, then I don't think they would care either way. Similarly, if the covert propaganda of the Federation* didn't paint the State corporations as wanting to destroy the union (though I do not doubt this is Executor Heth's true intentions), then the average Gallente who follows said channels wouldn't care either. The Federation is the only empire in New Eden to be completely accepting of political or national apathy, which is why I believe it's the best damned hope we have of peacefully uniting humanity. The cluster is only a small fraction of space that has been explored, after all. If we want to be superficially divided based on dated concepts such as nationality when we encounter new, possibly larger civilizations (even non-human), then I think we'll be in trouble. You believe peace and diplomacy are universal concepts, and so does the Federation (ideally speaking). CONCORD was founded for similar reasons to the Federation. Unfortunately, many cultures insist on boundaries that separate being from being. Those silly "pure" Gallente who believe they "uplifted" the "primitive" Federal members are just as criminal as Caldari who insist on their "cultural survival" while imposing it on occupied systems in Placid. Regarding the Caldari and the Minmatar specifically, so long as State corporate propaganda (at least Patriot-aligned) continue to paint the Republic as a Gallente puppet state, I don't think you'll have much luck. *You'll have to use your head to understand what this means.
Rogue Integer Center for Empyrean Studies 5	Posted - 2012.06.19 15:45:00 - [6] - Quote I've heard this before, and I'm glad to see more people recognize that not only does war tear us down, the ethnic and national divisions between us - especially between capsuleers - should mean far less than what we have in common.
Halete Echoes of Korgoth Initiative 160	Posted - 2012.06.19 15:45:00 - [7] - Quote Hi Seriph, good to see you are keeping well. Unfortunately, you seem to have not found the thread you were looking for. *You'll have to use your head to understand what this means. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in.
Malcolm Khross Wiyrkomi Honor Guard 325	Posted - 2012.06.19 15:46:00 - [8] - Quote General Inhonores, You have some of your information incorrect, and I will trust that it is unintentionally. The news brief you linked was a statement from Tibus Heth and no one else. Please do not try and brand it as an overlying viewpoint of a major political sect in the State, especially since Patriots and Provists are not the same (which has been explained to you countless times). You may be right in that the Federation accepts political and national apathy. The Caldari do not honor apathy on any level, but we do honor the national and political convictions and sentiments of those we interact with. The Achura are a prime example of this. I would ask for further deliberation on the merits and demerits of the Gallente and Caldari be left out of this thread, as it is a dishonor to the intended purpose of this thread. My apologies Halete, I hope you will understand my need to clarify. ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon Honor Guard Recruitment Video ((OOC WHG PR Video))
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 288	Posted - 2012.06.19 15:52:00 - [9] - Quote Malcolm Khross wrote: a statement from Tibus Heth and no one else. Please do not try and brand it as an overlying viewpoint of a major political sect in the State Certainly not the only voice... but the only voice in the State that counts right now. The Matari will always serve. If they want to change up from their current Gallente overseers and choose a new master for a time I'm sure the State could use a new low-cost labor source.
Rogue Integer Center for Empyrean Studies 5	Posted - 2012.06.19 16:37:00 - [10] - Quote Silas Vitalia wrote: Malcolm Khross wrote: a statement from Tibus Heth and no one else. Please do not try and brand it as an overlying viewpoint of a major political sect in the State Certainly not the only voice... but the only voice in the State that counts right now. Apparently Pilot Khross believes that Heth is not a (the) major political leader in the State. Perhaps this explains some things about his viewpoints on matters.
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 288	Posted - 2012.06.19 16:51:00 - [11] - Quote Rogue Integer wrote: Silas Vitalia wrote: Malcolm Khross wrote: a statement from Tibus Heth and no one else. Please do not try and brand it as an overlying viewpoint of a major political sect in the State Certainly not the only voice... but the only voice in the State that counts right now. Apparently Pilot Khross believes that Heth is not a (the) major political leader in the State. Perhaps this explains some things about his viewpoints on matters. Quite right. But until the anti-Heth camp grows some fortitude (or produces more weapons) The State won't be turning against their Imperial allies to embrace the Matari. A few corporations might buck of course, but Heth and the majority of the megacorps know what needs to be done.
Malcolm Khross Wiyrkomi Honor Guard 326	Posted - 2012.06.19 16:52:00 - [12] - Quote It would be appreciated if you would not place words in my mouth, Integer. Of course Tibus Heth is the "major political leader" of the Caldari State but that does not make him representative of the Caldari as a whole, nor of every individual corporation and entity within the State. You are smart enough to recognize this distinction. ~Captain Malcolm Khross, Dyishi Aunni of the Wirykomi Honor Guard Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon Honor Guard Recruitment Video ((OOC WHG PR Video))
Scherezad Hobgoblin Marketeers 63	Posted - 2012.06.19 16:53:00 - [13] - Quote Rogue Integer wrote: Silas Vitalia wrote: Malcolm Khross wrote: a statement from Tibus Heth and no one else. Please do not try and brand it as an overlying viewpoint of a major political sect in the State Certainly not the only voice... but the only voice in the State that counts right now. Apparently Pilot Khross believes that Heth is not a (the) major political leader in the State. Perhaps this explains some things about his viewpoints on matters. Sometimes when on a river, to travel downstream safely, one must paddle upstream for a time. We'll find the right course, even though the water's rough. I make no excuses for or statement on Mister Heth, the Provists, or their actions.
Scherezad Hobgoblin Marketeers 63	Posted - 2012.06.19 16:56:00 - [14] - Quote Pilot Halete, I'm so happy to hear of this initiative. Your actions better your people and enrich us all. May the Minmatar stand united forever.
Rogue Integer Center for Empyrean Studies 5	Posted - 2012.06.19 17:20:00 - [15] - Quote No one's placing words in your mouth, Khross. Quote: a statement from Tibus Heth and no one else. Please do not try and brand it as an overlying viewpoint of a major political sect in the State I think it's understandable, although certainly not commendable, that Pilot Inhonores sees little daylight between the two so-called "political sects", as you're fighting Heth's war regardless.
Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 131	Posted - 2012.06.19 18:54:00 - [16] - Quote Halete wrote: Hi Seriph, good to see you are keeping well. Unfortunately, you seem to have not found the thread you were looking for. *You'll have to use your head to understand what this means. If you like, I could offer a non-attempt at an intellectual response about the reason why Republic/State relations are poor and just say that, amongst capsuleers, the two nations are considered rather fashionable. Regardless of the crimes of the Republic or State, the two are rather popular for some reason or another. Not sure what it is. I believe it is equivalent to UoC students experimenting with non-mainstream cultures, finding two that they are rather fond of (in this case, the Minmatar and the Caldari), and trying to mesh them together. Confirmation bias is used; for example, the State is an authoritarian society, while the Republic is a marginally free one. These facts are overlooked. It's a nice thought, everyone getting along. As nice as the Fed and State getting on. It's a "cool" idea.
Halete Echoes of Korgoth Initiative 160	Posted - 2012.06.19 19:02:00 - [17] - Quote Of course. My political views are a fashion, much like my tribal marks. You'll be taken seriously in this thread when you formulate a response with actual weight, until then you are free to create your own topic. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in.
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 288	Posted - 2012.06.19 19:20:00 - [18] - Quote Halete wrote: This thread will be monitored, but no questions will be answered. Well I suppose you weren't answering a question exactly, but so much for letting the thread float on it's own, yes?
Halete Echoes of Korgoth Initiative 160	Posted - 2012.06.19 19:42:00 - [19] - Quote My apologies, Silas. Let me clarify; I will not be answering questions, but I will be trying to avert blatant attempts to de-rail the topic. Thank-you for the interest, by the way, dear. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in.
Dex Nederland Lai Dai Infinity Systems The Fourth District 51	Posted - 2012.06.19 19:50:00 - [20] - Quote Seriphyn Inhonores wrote: Caldari society was shaped by the Gallente one for five hundred years, after all Cultural shaping goes both ways, Inhonores-jagii. Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Silas Vitalia Nobilta Nera 288	Posted - 2012.06.19 19:55:00 - [21] - Quote Halete wrote: My apologies, Silas. Let me clarify; I will not be answering questions, but I will be trying to avert blatant attempts to de-rail the topic. The good General's comments seem quite related to the topic, actually.
Korsavius Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 14	Posted - 2012.06.19 23:55:00 - [22] - Quote Saisa Halete, First, I would like to congratulate you for your announcement. Personally, I know first-hand the challenge of taking a stance that your neighbors would deem incorrect or abhorrent. I'm not sure if you are aware, but I-RED operates an initiative called the Cal-Matari Program. The program is responsible for various duties and performs equally various operations throughout the cluster. As head of the program, I would like to formally invite you to a conference at I-RED's headquarters in Syndicate. There, we will be able to tell you more of what we do and possibly even emplace a similar trade relationship to the one we have ongoing with a couple other Minmatar factions. I hope you will accept my offer, and I eagerly await your response. Rikaato, Korsavius Taisa, Cal-Matari Operations Commander
Hans Nardieu Federal Nationalist Party Federal Consensus Outreach 14	Posted - 2012.06.20 01:17:00 - [23] - Quote And the absurd 'Cal Matari' movement raises its serpentine head once more. I thought we'd done away with this nonsense. You understand, don't you, that these are the people who actively facilitate the enslavement of your Matari brothers and sisters? To collaborate with them is as gross a betrayal as I could ever encompass. But, as General Inhonores says, I guess if all the cool kids are doing it. Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station
Paul J Keating The Light on the Hill 19	Posted - 2012.06.20 01:56:00 - [24] - Quote It staggers me to see such words committed to print. To see a proud warrior so dismissive of the capabilities of her own people to decide their futures and fates, and instead telling of them the glorious Caldari State. To see someone claim the best way to help the weak and the starving from the horrors of this is to jump into bed with the very nation that seeks to defeat them. I can see it now, the children walking through a museum on Matar; walking through the front doors they will see a triumphant statue of Tovil-Toba; they will marvel at this exemplar of the Minmatar, reminded forever that the true example they should aspire to was a Caldari mass-murderer. They will see an exhibit showing once proud workers toiling away on weapons of war; in the foundries of molten promises and the factory lines of wracked dreams; all under the watchful eyes of the Haletes and Korsaviuses of the cluster. "Is that what it was like under the Amarr?" They will ask their parents. "No," will come the reply, "That is the future, that is The New Meritocracy". The Republic deserves better then the sweet talking firewater salesmen who promise a future with the State.
Katrina Oniseki Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 621	Posted - 2012.06.20 02:04:00 - [25] - Quote Once again, I'd like to reiterate that the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive has no official statement or standing on this matter at this time. The Cal-Matar program is a personal project of certain I-RED members, those outside I-RED, and even some pilots openly hostile to I-RED. While I-RED as an alliance is affiliated with the Cal-Matar program and has cooperated on certain Cal-Matar operations, the Cal-Matar union does not represent the alliance nor can it speak on our behalf. If and when the Ishuk Raata Enforcement Directive has an official comment to make on this matter, it will be done so through either myself, Vice Executor Simca Develon, or Executor John Revenent. Rikaato, Katrina Oniseki Shosho, I-RED Director of Public Relations
Halete Echoes of Korgoth Initiative 161	Posted - 2012.06.20 02:06:00 - [26] - Quote Paul J Keating wrote: It staggers me to see such words committed to print. To see a proud warrior so dismissive of the capabilities of her own people to decide their futures and fates, and instead telling of them the glorious Caldari State. To see someone claim the best way to help the weak and the starving from the horrors of this is to jump into bed with the very nation that seeks to defeat them. I can see it now, the children walking through a museum on Matar; walking through the front doors they will see a triumphant statue of Tovil-Toba; they will marvel at this exemplar of the Minmatar, reminded forever that the true example they should aspire to was a Caldari mass-murderer. They will see an exhibit showing once proud workers toiling away on weapons of war; in the foundries of molten promises and the factory lines of wracked dreams; all under the watchful eyes of the Haletes and Korsaviuses of the cluster. "Is that what it was like under the Amarr?" They will ask their parents. "No," will come the reply, "That is the future, that is The New Meritocracy". The Republic deserves better then the sweet talking firewater salesmen who promise a future with the State. Your first mistake is mistaking the Republic for the Republic's people, for I hold nothing but pride in them. Your second was creating such marvelous hyperbole over a woman's wishes to see her starving people fed and Matar's children cured of their infections. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in.
Gottii Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari 77	Posted - 2012.06.20 02:42:00 - [27] - Quote Im baffled by this. Im baffled by your willful ignorance. The Caldari will not "leave us be". They dont leave anyone be. They are the most mettlesome of all the races (( CCP's exact words here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Caldari )) Are you willfully blind, or merely ignorant? They kill our kin in the Federation. They aid the enslavers of our kin in the Empire, and go out of their way to profit from it. You seek to aid the slayers of our kin and the allies of our enemies. You seek to turn against those who helped us in our more dire moments. The Federation saw us as a people to help. The Caldari saw us as a market to exploit. For this alone we should shout down nonsense such as this. Let me say this to you, and any other Minmatar who says that the Gallente "take from us our culture". I will say this, as a former slave, and a Matari aware of our history. I call you weak. I call you soft. I call you forgetful if you think the Gallente culture is somehow a threat to our ways. We slaves endured centuries of torture and indoctrination. If the Amarr, with their drugs, their torture, and their indoctrination, couldnt steal our culture from us, you think the Galllente's vapid and frivolous ways will? Thats nonsense, and a disgrace to what our ancestors endured and overcame. We already have the Ammatar. Do we now need the term Calmatar as well?
Dex Nederland Lai Dai Infinity Systems The Fourth District 51	Posted - 2012.06.20 04:03:00 - [28] - Quote The Federation sees you as a market as well, but they just are not honest about it. Try restricting Quafe, CreoDron, Transtellar, etc activities in the Republic and see what happens. Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Gottii Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari 77	Posted - 2012.06.20 04:38:00 - [29] - Quote Dex Nederland wrote: The Federation sees you as a market as well, but they just are not honest about it. Try restricting Quafe, CreoDron, Transtellar, etc activities in the Republic and see what happens. I would rather be seen as consumers, than commodities.
Aria Jenneth Wiyrkomi Honor Guard 93	Posted - 2012.06.20 04:55:00 - [30] - Quote Gottii wrote: They are the most mettlesome of all the races (( CCP's exact words here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Caldari )) In which sense do you mean, exactly, pilot? Yes, our traders can get aggressive when their work is threatened. Yes, we take pride in our military strength and have been known not to sit on our hands. Yes, we play host to the Practicals, who are ... let's not get into that. We don't stick our faiths down others' necks. We won't tell you that your traditions are archaic foolishness. We won't shake our heads sadly at you if you say that you think differently than we do about how to run your own country. Inward-looking, yes; self-interested, yes; materialistic, probably a bit too much (but I'm an Achur, so I would say that). The Caldari look after their own interests first, and if you wonder why we'd join forces with a bunch of conquerors like the Amarr, you need look no further than that. We found them easier to deal with than the devil we knew. The Gallente also found us to be people to help, Gottii, and did their utmost to help us right out of cultural existence-- more kindly than the Amarr, admittedly, but swallow too much of their influence and your identity will be no less dead. We're aggressive traders, and we like a good profit. We will not, however, tell you how to live your life. Of course, it took us a few hundred years to figure out that we did not have a friend in the Gallente, so I suppose it can take some long figuring. They're so nice, you know. Then again, your people already know what it is like to have someone actively trying to extinguish their culture, so maybe you'll figure it out faster. Good luck, pilot. The Gallente are great allies as long as you don't mind turning into Gallente. It'll be for your own good, of course. But that's a line you've heard before, yes?

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