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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.12.17 17:16:00 -
[1]
http://gizmodo.com/5426453/the-physics-of-space-battles
As viewed by an aerospace PhD.
 Originally by: Doc Robertson
...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.17 17:34:00 -
[2]
Basically -
build bigships with lots of guns
smallships that can turn quickly
Use gyroscopes to turn
Use kinetic weapons
*shrug* anyone with half a mind could probably figure pretty much the same thing.
I for one see less smallships and more bigships lobbing projectiles/missiles out to the hundreds of km range (Alastair Reynolds has a few examples of what im talking about)
Of course the ships probably wont be huge collections of nano-assemblies that can rebuild themselves to any task...
Also, the part about giving the AI's fighters was funny 
It shouldnt be too hard to remote control fighters from a mothership though. Besides, would be an interesting fight, trying to engage their fighters but keeping yours as close to your mothership as possible to minimize light lag
Of course, at this point im back to thinking in game development terms :p
OHGODS BELOW THIS LINE IS MY SIG !!!! SRSLY!
Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. Lance is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points |
Elukka
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:13:00 -
[3]
It's a good article, and basically right, but the writer forgot all about thermodynamics.
Ships will need large radiators to dispose of heat, which will be their weak spots. As a side effect, any ship will be very easily visible from millions or at least hundreds of thousands of kilometers away.
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Xen Gin
Silurian Operations
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Elukka
It's a good article, and basically right, but the writer forgot all about thermodynamics.
Ships will need large radiators to dispose of heat, which will be their weak spots. As a side effect, any ship will be very easily visible from millions or at least hundreds of thousands of kilometers away.
Not really, you use the hull of a spaceship as a giant regulated radiator (Unless people are making plastic ships), use the heat for life support and can be captured back into a self regulating system.
## You got that? Right I'll be back in approximately 300 seconds to retort! ## |
Elukka
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Posted - 2009.12.18 10:24:00 -
[5]
Generally, big fun things such as nuclear reactors, lasers and many propulsion systems produce huge amounts of waste heat. The hull itself is unlikely to be enough to passively radiate all the waste heat away.
And no, you can't do anything with the waste heat, you just have to radiate it away.
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Heavens Gate Consortium
Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.12.18 12:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Elukka
Generally, big fun things such as nuclear reactors, lasers and many propulsion systems produce huge amounts of waste heat. The hull itself is unlikely to be enough to passively radiate all the waste heat away.
And no, you can't do anything with the waste heat, you just have to radiate it away.
Indeed. Off topic, but I do find it annoying when sci-fi writers get this wrong. All they hear is "It's minus several hundred degrees in space," so obviously if anyone gets chucked out an airlock they instantly turn into a human ice statue. But there's nothing to conduct heat away, it would take a very very very long time for the body to lose heat.
Even the Eve devs are guilty of that one. Frozen Corpses, indeed.
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Kolatha
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Posted - 2009.12.18 12:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kolatha on 18/12/2009 12:55:31
Edited by: Kolatha on 18/12/2009 12:53:41
Originally by: Elukka
Generally, big fun things such as nuclear reactors, lasers and many propulsion systems produce huge amounts of waste heat. The hull itself is unlikely to be enough to passively radiate all the waste heat away.
And no, you can't do anything with the waste heat, you just have to radiate it away.
You pump excess heat into your reaction mass and eject it through your engines. And it is only waste heat if you don't find other uses.
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Indeed. Off topic, but I do find it annoying when sci-fi writers get this wrong. All they hear is "It's minus several hundred degrees in space," so obviously if anyone gets chucked out an airlock they instantly turn into a human ice statue. But there's nothing to conduct heat away, it would take a very very very long time for the body to lose heat.
Even the Eve devs are guilty of that one. Frozen Corpses, indeed.
It takes about 2 hours for the surface of the body to freeze. Various factors control this, including body surface moisture (water sublimates off the body in a vacuum taking with it a surprising amount of heat), surface area (the human body radiates quite a bit of heat), mass and percentage of surface area in shadow.
Complete freezing takes a couple of weeks. Proximity to radiation sources and celestial body shadows can increase or decrease these times. A body in the shadow of Jupiter would freeze faster than a corpse on the sunny side of an earth orbit.
So Eve's corpsicles are not too far off the mark.
As for the topic at hand, well space battles from science fiction are only really "wrong" if we try to recreate them using contemporary technology and scientific know-how in much the same way that modern aerial warfare is "wrong" if you try to recreate it using 19th century hot air balloons.
When you try to look at the issue of space warfare you can only really speculate based on what we could potentially develop by the time it comes to fight in space. In otherwords, the science fiction authors have it as "right" as anyone else unless they really are trying to describe space battles using contemporary technology. Heinlen is a good place to start for realistic space flight based on contemporary technology.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.18 13:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dacryphile
http://gizmodo.com/5426453/the-physics-of-space-battles
As viewed by an aerospace PhD.
PHD and PHD candidate is two different things. ;)
But yes, he sums up teh basics.
Kinetic weapons are awesome in reality.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Elukka
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Posted - 2009.12.18 21:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kolatha
You pump excess heat into your reaction mass and eject it through your engines. And it is only waste heat if you don't find other uses.
That works, but there's a finite amount of reaction mass on board and it's not very nice having to burn your engines every time the ship gets hot.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Malcanis on 18/12/2009 22:06:16
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Originally by: Elukka
Generally, big fun things such as nuclear reactors, lasers and many propulsion systems produce huge amounts of waste heat. The hull itself is unlikely to be enough to passively radiate all the waste heat away.
And no, you can't do anything with the waste heat, you just have to radiate it away.
Indeed. Off topic, but I do find it annoying when sci-fi writers get this wrong. All they hear is "It's minus several hundred degrees in space," so obviously if anyone gets chucked out an airlock they instantly turn into a human ice statue. But there's nothing to conduct heat away, it would take a very very very long time for the body to lose heat.
Even the Eve devs are guilty of that one. Frozen Corpses, indeed.
Hi! Let's talk about the Stefan-Boltzmann constant!
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Idiots In Spaceships
Psychotic Tendencies.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Elukka
That works, but there's a finite amount of reaction mass on board and it's not very nice having to burn your engines every time the ship gets hot.
In current technology space flight, you should just have to burn your engines enough to "get up to speed" then they are not needed unless there is a course correction. Therefore, excess heat could simply be vented out the tail pipe without need of engaging the engines.
With current technology, that heat signature would be significantly less then active engines.
On a spaceship any dual use you can get saves room.
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VanNostrum
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Originally by: Elukka
Generally, big fun things such as nuclear reactors, lasers and many propulsion systems produce huge amounts of waste heat. The hull itself is unlikely to be enough to passively radiate all the waste heat away.
And no, you can't do anything with the waste heat, you just have to radiate it away.
Indeed. Off topic, but I do find it annoying when sci-fi writers get this wrong. All they hear is "It's minus several hundred degrees in space," so obviously if anyone gets chucked out an airlock they instantly turn into a human ice statue. But there's nothing to conduct heat away, it would take a very very very long time for the body to lose heat.
Even the Eve devs are guilty of that one. Frozen Corpses, indeed.
You probably wouldn't turn to ice instantly, however due to no pressure in space your capillaries would burst, and blood and body fluids coming out of torn skin would freeze instantly.
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Elukka
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Posted - 2009.12.18 23:51:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
In current technology space flight, you should just have to burn your engines enough to "get up to speed" then they are not needed unless there is a course correction. Therefore, excess heat could simply be vented out the tail pipe without need of engaging the engines.
With current technology, that heat signature would be significantly less then active engines.
On a spaceship any dual use you can get saves room.
Pumping out hot reaction mass is the very same thing as burning your engines.
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Carine Parnasse
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Posted - 2009.12.19 01:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Elukka
Originally by: Elora Danzik
In current technology space flight, you should just have to burn your engines enough to "get up to speed" then they are not needed unless there is a course correction. Therefore, excess heat could simply be vented out the tail pipe without need of engaging the engines.
With current technology, that heat signature would be significantly less then active engines.
On a spaceship any dual use you can get saves room.
Pumping out hot reaction mass is the very same thing as burning your engines.
Except you get a good deal less thrust and waste the same amount of fuel.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.12.19 05:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
With current technology, that heat signature would be significantly less then active engines.
Who cares? There is no stealth in space.
Here's the starting point for a really good idea of what war in space would be like: http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3t.html
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"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP" |
F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.19 08:09:00 -
[16]
damn you for beating me to posting this. But at least I can say that you misspelled the title.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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Juan Valhdez
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Posted - 2009.12.19 08:51:00 -
[17]
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1990/is-it-possible-to-create-a-science-fiction-type-force-field
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Juan Valhdez
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Juan Valhdez on 19/12/2009 09:09:25
odd |
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:38:00 -
[19]
I will comment on his weapons points and avoid all else as most(propulsion for instance) is somewhat out of our current grasp.
Missiles in their current form would seem more like thermal weapons rather then explosive weapons(he is right expanding gas wouldn't be effective as is).
However if you were to take a missile and instead of simply making it go boom on impact make it a shaped charge that upon impact latches unto the hull of the enemy craft, one may still have an explosive weapon in space.
Kinetic weapons would only be semi effective. THEL type of weapons systems would be able to disable most kinetic and explosive weapons before they even get close. So I would say it would be more about lasers cutting primary defenses away and then hitting them with an explosive or kinetic charge.
As far as deflector shields go, deflector would be the wrong word but we do currently have them. We have already made cold plasma, which if it were to come in contact with a magnet would form a shell around the said magnet. This cold plasma has some interesting capabilities, such as absorbing energetic attacks, protecting against radiation and possibly even an emp strike.
This also gives us an interesting new invention-a shield that repels not only energy weapons but also kinetic weapons. Setting a layer of this cold plasma on either side of hot plasma in a "sandwhich"shape would allow the shield to melt and break up any kinetic based projectile before impacting the hull of our space ship.
I believe the guy was right in some places, but by in large his article was still rather speculation based as we don't have uber sized spaceships yet.
If this looks copy pasted, it is... My corp forum had this posted about 2 days ago. 
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Zofe Stormcaller
Gallente
Pelennor Swarm
THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.12.22 00:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Elukka
Generally, big fun things such as nuclear reactors, lasers and many propulsion systems produce huge amounts of waste heat. The hull itself is unlikely to be enough to passively radiate all the waste heat away.
And no, you can't do anything with the waste heat, you just have to radiate it away.
Would this be why Minmatar ships, which supposedly in the backstory somewhere use fission reactors, have what appear to be large radiators? (aka the top wingy bit, the target, the failsail...)
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