EVE Search - Drake Bond Proposal

All Channels

Market Discussions

Drake Bond Proposal - Discussion

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.17 22:01:00 - [1] My previous bond went pretty well while it ran. I scaled back to lower monthly interest payments and not worry as I spent more time with my family. I was thinking of running another bond, partly because I'm getting annoyed at all the scams coming out of the woodwork, and partly to take another tack with my in-game activities. I wanted to see how it would be received, and maybe get some advice on whether my friends here would think it's a good idea at all anyways. I've been a collector of BPOs, slowly but surely. Some of my favorite that I currently have made some nice ISK on is my 10MN Microwarpdrive I, Moa, and I'll soon have a finished researched Caracal BPO. I wanted to expand upward and get into also BCs and BSes (the Drake and Raven, to start). The Raven, at the moment, seems a bit too much for me to stick my feet in with a bond. The Drake would be more doable. I estimate I could get a researched Drake for about 500 Mil. I have a freighter alt, now, but haven't yet invested in a freighter (well, I did briefly, to move stuff, then sold for profit :D ). So 700 Mil for a freighter. According to Akita T's wonderful spreadsheet it would cost me a little over 200 Mil for a day's worth of Drake production, so for a bond I would probably ask for 800 Mil for materials, 4 days worth to get me going an give the finished Drake's time to sell on the market. So total would be 2 Bil. I would split the finished products between Amarr and Jita, and I believe my alt's standings aren't horrible enough to rule out Dodixie and Rens, if need be. I currently have about 1.7 Bil in my own ISK, so it's feasible I could (almost) fund this all myself. However, my own funds would be a mitigating factor. If I don't make ISK, or don't make it fast enough, with the Drake production, I can keep trading with my own funds to also provide profit. Being conveniently located in Akita T's corp, he's agreed to lock down BPOs for collateral. The most noteworthy BPOs would be the Drake, Moa, and Caracal, for about 700 Mil worth of colateral. I also have a Caracal Navy Issue and CN Hookbill, T2 fitted I'm sitting on that could provide another 200 Mil worth? So, 900 Mil worth of colateral, about 45% of the bond. My mission ship I'd want to keep in my hands, to play with and as another mitigating factor, to make ISK with. Akita T's spreadsheet says it would take 2 months to make up the ISK in profit to cover the bond. As that spreadsheet considers always on production/sell, and to factor in interest, I would say a 3 month bond would be in order. Almost half the bond is liquid cost, however, and with mitigating factors, if needed I could pull out early and still keep the BPO + freighter, or at least the BPO. If I decide to go ahead, I wouldn't go forward for another two weeks, to give me time to train Production Efficiency. I'm also in a 1 Bil loan from an old corp mate (making my trade assests/liquid currently 2.7 Bil), and I'd want to pay that loan back before working on another public bond. Alternatively, it might be better to look for a loan privately again. Thoughts? What kind of interest do you think I could ask for with the provided collateral? 4-5%? Does it sound like something I should even go public with? Thanks for the advice! I know I've been quite hostile on the forums, usually at people that I felt deserved it at the time, but I'm trying to turn over a new leaf. We need more nice guys. So, my apologies to any MDers I've offended. Yes, even you, Ji Sama.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.17 22:39:00 - [2] I have 500M and a Charon how can I help?
Vahdrok Nyrus OX Syndicate Shipyards	Posted - 2009.12.17 22:46:00 - [3] You ask if its something you should go public with. IMO you should never go public unless as a last resort. It sounds like you are planning to put up 700m in collateral and get a 2b in a loan? At 35% collateral, its more of a good faith jesture IMO but its something to combine with past results. Probably not safe enough to dip into 4% if we hold T4U as the example for that. Over the course of 3 months, have you looked at what it would cost you to move materials using Red Frog? If it is cheaper, you could use them and put 1.5b into production. -----------------------------
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.17 22:49:00 - [4] returns should be 8%+
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.17 23:09:00 - [5] im more concerned with actually making this profitable, but if he retains his own isk for trading, I really dont care, aslong as he pays back :D
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2009.12.17 23:10:00 - [6] I have 5 mil and a Carbon how can I help? Killmail Sales Battleship Buying
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.18 00:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Ji Sama I have 500M and a Charon how can I help? Cool. If that's still available when I'm ready, perhaps we can work out just a private loan. I guess I should have the ISK by then to fund the materials for production myself. Originally by: Vahdrok Nyrus It sounds like you are planning to put up 700m in collateral and get a 2b in a loan? At 35% collateral, its more of a good faith jesture IMO but its something to combine with past results. Plus two ships that I estimated at 200 Mil, so 45%, but yeah, not full security, but provides less for the investors to possibly lose.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.18 00:13:00 - [8] Well what is there to lose? If the business fails, the BPO and Charon can be sold, aswell as the collateral. My offer was serious. Contact me when you are ready. I will need Akita to confirm the lockdown ofc.
Jadun	Posted - 2009.12.18 01:01:00 - [9] yo ho i would be willing to invest 1.5 billion into this. contact me with eve-mail or ingame when online
Maaltor	Posted - 2009.12.18 01:08:00 - [10] Wait, so you are planning on turning a profit.. making drakes?
Phoebe Halliwel	Posted - 2009.12.18 01:08:00 - [11] Your enthusiasm to run offerings is actually quite a nice thing to see. Same thing as Katiana's offering though; I suspect you are doing an offering for the sake of it. Which, to be honest, I have no problem with provided you are willing to see them through. Only thing with this; it doesn't really have anything unique or interesting about it. That said it's still a good stepping stone if you chose to view it as such. With the 1.7b isk you have and the intention to build drakes specifically, you don't need a bond. Try a month the hard way. - select a few adjacent markets - create local mins buy orders/calculate margins using sell orders - contact bulk mins suppliers and t1 ship buyers - use a transport or freight contracts to haul - use BPCs to build. Seriously look at the numbers when building on bpos vs a bpc, it takes a long time to recoup the loss spent buying a researched BPO. You quote 500mil for a drake bpo when that level me/pe isn't actually required for optimal manufacturing. - sell at appropriate locations = profit at a moderate pace, whilst learning the market. Give yourself a set period to learn the market and demonstrate some results. You really dont need a BPO or a freighter to start T1 manufacture, if you can manage your logistics properly. Submit to an ongoing performace audit. Come back to MD with hard numbers and ask for investment in something sustainable that will hold your interest. Hope that tone isn't offensive but it's the best I can do. You've talked about how much collateral you can offer here, but you don't apppear to be offering any sustantial market research which is a bit disappointing. I'd like to see your estimated profitability levels working off various ME level prints, as well as min buy/sell order averages and sell order info for the finished product.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.18 01:12:00 - [12] Well i never understood the let me build it thing, unless its t2 and from a bpo. I get drakes or whatever below mineral prices because people are ****ing stupid, and sell them to my buy orders.
Bret Caliaro Fortuna inc. Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.18 01:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Maaltor Wait, so you are planning on turning a profit.. making drakes? It is very possible, just wouldn't expect anyone to get rich doing so, a good starting ship to begin production with IMO. _________________________________________________ I'm a so very lazy, so I play smart not hard.
Mahke Aeon Of Strife	Posted - 2009.12.18 02:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Vahdrok Nyrus You ask if its something you should go public with. IMO you should never go public unless as a last resort. It sounds like you are planning to put up 700m in collateral and get a 2b in a loan? At 35% collateral, its more of a good faith jesture IMO but its something to combine with past results. Probably not safe enough to dip into 4% if we hold T4U as the example for that. Over the course of 3 months, have you looked at what it would cost you to move materials using Red Frog? If it is cheaper, you could use them and put 1.5b into production. Actually, this is exactly the kind of thing its good to go public for. High capital, low risk, medium effort, medium return. I'd only suggest starting with bpcs to see if you can make decent profit without triggering a price war (a bpo bieng run 23/7 makes a lot of ships)
Maaltor	Posted - 2009.12.18 02:21:00 - [15] Originally by: Bret Caliaro It is very possible, just wouldn't expect anyone to get rich doing so, a good starting ship to begin production with IMO. If you are going to place buy orders to get stupidly cheap minerals you might as well just buy the drakes outright... Originally by: Ji Sama I get drakes or whatever below mineral prices because people are **ing stupid, and sell them to my buy orders. I regularly buy several drakes a day 15-20% below BUILD cost - its more profitable to blow them up and collect insurance than it is to throw them onto the market and hope some idiot buys my overpriced drake. Got some BS orders filled this week, so the total for the last 7 days is about 1200mil of ships bought on the market at least 10% below build price. If I only add 10% to the build cost and resell it I'll be making far more profit than if I had a ME30 BPO and bought the minerals at a steal off the market, plus less **ing around. I don't get it - the OP is already an experienced trader, and he wants to go into BC building? Go build freighters or at least orcas or something.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.18 02:39:00 - [16] Originally by: Ji Sama Well what is there to lose? If the business fails, the BPO and Charon can be sold, aswell as the collateral. My offer was serious. Contact me when you are ready. I will need Akita to confirm the lockdown ofc. And I was serious in probably accepting it. Originally by: Maaltor Wait, so you are planning on turning a profit.. making drakes? So the numbers say. And that's at Jita prices. I haven't actually done the price checking in the different hubs and whatnot, but from what I remember from my time in Domain, the prices were higher there. Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel Your enthusiasm to run offerings is actually quite a nice thing to see. Same thing as Katiana's offering though; I suspect you are doing an offering for the sake of it. Which, to be honest, I have no problem with provided you are willing to see them through. Only thing with this; it doesn't really have anything unique or interesting about it. That said it's still a good stepping stone if you chose to view it as such. The "offering for the sake of it" is only part of it. Yes, with all the scams going around I thought I'd give people something legit to chew on. But also with that thought is how does it accomplish my actual goals. I want to own a Drake and Raven BPO, as a Caldari and a collector, and I'd like to make some ISK off of it. I've been making the mistake too often of buying stuff I want when I get too much ISK, killing my trade capital. So, in order to accomplish all of that, I can borrow the money to get the BPO and make it pay for itself. Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel With the 1.7b isk you have and the intention to build drakes specifically, you don't need a bond. Try a month the hard way. <snip> Come back to MD with hard numbers and ask for investment in something sustainable that will hold your interest. Hope that tone isn't offensive but it's the best I can do. No, not offensive at all. The only problem with that is that I have to put my trade capital into it. By taking a loan instead, I can keep making money trading and have the BPO + freighter pay for itself. In short, in theory I should be able to make ISK and get my goals faster that way. Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel You've talked about how much collateral you can offer here, but you don't apppear to be offering any sustantial market research which is a bit disappointing. I'd like to see your estimated profitability levels working off various ME level prints, as well as min buy/sell order averages and sell order info for the finished product. Well said. I just wanted to generate discussion and get some advice in this thread. I haven't offered market research because I haven't done any, yet. Well, I put in Forge numbers into Akita's master BPO spreadsheet and calculated project profit per day + mineral cost per day, etc. I genuinely appreciate the advice and I'll plan on doing that research and getting the numbers before I go public, or private. Looks like Ji Sama can handle most of what I want, or Akita probably wouldn't mind a Bil or do with all the ISK he's floating in from his Dominion investment.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.18 02:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Maaltor I regularly buy several drakes a day 15-20% below BUILD cost - its more profitable to blow them up and collect insurance than it is to throw them onto the market and hope some idiot buys my overpriced drake. <snip> I don't get it - the OP is already an experienced trader, and he wants to go into BC building? Go build freighters or at least orcas or something. Heh, where? Not at my home. By Jita prices alone I, supposedly, can make about make about 3.75 Mil ISK profit per Drake. Selling in Amarr, if it's still the same, should be more. I haven't checked the other hubs yet. Aaaand I don't see where experienced trader means I should go to freighters or orcas first? Experienced trader != experienced producer. Why produce? Fine, yeah, probably make more ISK with less effort to keep station trading. See my previous post. I like variety and wanted to try something else for a change. I like collecting BPOs. A BC would be a better try to see if I liked going into production more full time than a BS or freighters, etc. Not that I have to defend myself against someone that "doesn't get me", I guess. Heh.
Timothy Heigel	Posted - 2009.12.18 03:30:00 - [18] ill gladly invest 100m into this
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.18 03:54:00 - [19] If you are interested in starting a business I have an opportunity for you (or someone else if you can't). I have a 2 Orca BPOS (ME 3), and a full set of cap component BPO's (including 2 cap cargo bays) locked down in my corp. For 50M rent a month, a person can have full access to all the cap production BPO's (all well researched) for full time Orca manufacture or just cap components 2 jumps out from Jita in a quiet factory. The person would be responsible the ISK for minerals etc. Have a look at the numbers if your interested. All cap component BPO's are at least ME 75.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.18 04:19:00 - [20] Originally by: cosmoray If you are interested in starting a business I have an opportunity for you (or someone else if you can't). I have a 2 Orca BPOS (ME 3), and a full set of cap component BPO's (including 2 cap cargo bays) locked down in my corp. For 50M rent a month, a person can have full access to all the cap production BPO's (all well researched) for full time Orca manufacture or just cap components 2 jumps out from Jita in a quiet factory. The person would be responsible the ISK for minerals etc. Have a look at the numbers if your interested. All cap component BPO's are at least ME 75. Thanks for the offer, but for myself I'd kind of like to stay in my corp, for the moment.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.18 07:36:00 - [21] Edited by: Akita T on 18/12/2009 07:40:04 Originally by: Ji Sama I will need Akita to confirm the lockdown ofc. As soon as the blueprint exists and is locked down, I will gladly confirm its status. Originally by: Dretzle Omega Thanks for the offer, but for myself I'd kind of like to stay in my corp, for the moment. He means you should train an alt just for manufacture that you'd stick into his corp P.S. Capship components alone used to be significantly more profitable than battlecruisers (and I suppose wrapping them up in an Orca would make them easier to move), so I would at least consider his offer. _ We are recruiting \| Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.18 08:02:00 - [22] 1) I have not been asked for an audit or anything, but I can confirm the Caracal BPO exists (and is ready by yesterday), along with several others as Dretzle used my "hassle free-no-need-to-provide-research-alts" research service and got it done. 2) Since he's a Customer of mine, I am going to offer him free production of an Obelisk (using a ME5 PE 1 BPO) and any of the capital components required that I have, as long as he can take it away off Gallente space (I cannot pilot it for now). - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Leana Darkrider Minmatar Creatio -ex- nihilo The Donkey Rollers	Posted - 2009.12.18 08:38:00 - [23] I would like to invest in this. Contact me ingame when you see me online ______________________________________ If only EVE could cook, if only....
Kalanar Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.12.18 11:53:00 - [24] Is it that time again so soon Dretzle? If you run the bond, ill reserve half of whatever you need, or privately fund the entire bond if that is what you are going after. Toss me a mail in-game, if you've got a few weeks to mull it about.
Bret Caliaro Fortuna inc. Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.18 12:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Maaltor Originally by: Bret Caliaro It is very possible, just wouldn't expect anyone to get rich doing so, a good starting ship to begin production with IMO. If you are going to place buy orders to get stupidly cheap minerals you might as well just buy the drakes outright... Originally by: Ji Sama I get drakes or whatever below mineral prices because people are **ing stupid, and sell them to my buy orders. I regularly buy several drakes a day 15-20% below BUILD cost - its more profitable to blow them up and collect insurance than it is to throw them onto the market and hope some idiot buys my overpriced drake. Got some BS orders filled this week, so the total for the last 7 days is about 1200mil of ships bought on the market at least 10% below build price. If I only add 10% to the build cost and resell it I'll be making far more profit than if I had a ME30 BPO and bought the minerals at a steal off the market, plus less **ing around. I don't get it - the OP is already an experienced trader, and he wants to go into BC building? Go build freighters or at least orcas or something. Your right I went briefly into drake manufacture just to see if there was much profit, quickly found out trading drakes was far more lucritive for the amount of drakes I was producing. But it all depends on how many ships are made, if you can build alot more drakes than you would normally get through buy orders you will make more isk just at a lower %. Although I agree with you, I'm curious to see how this turns out. _________________________________________________ I'm a so very lazy, so I play smart not hard.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.18 12:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha 2) Since he's a Customer of mine, I am going to offer him free production of an Obelisk (using a ME5 PE 1 BPO) and any of the capital components required that I have, as long as he can take it away off Gallente space (I cannot pilot it for now). That's very generous. However, I can't fly Obelisks. I'm a Charon kind of man. (Charon? Like Sharon? Am I getting flashbacks to Battlestar Galactica now?) Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha - Raven is super-mega inflationed and imho were I Dretzle, I'd perform a very in depth research to seek out the actual ROI of buying a BPO for it. Of course. I did the numbers against Jita prices, as well. Supposedly I could earn about 60 Mil a day from the Raven alone. However, the volume is larger for the Raven, so it'd be harder (or more time, rather) to move the minerals and to move the final product to market, possibly limiting how fast I could sell them. I thought I'd start a bit smaller. Originally by: Kalanar Is it that time again so soon Dretzle? Perhaps. :) My largest issue with the other bond is the relatively large interest payment that I didn't want to be responsible for. With a smaller bond I could easily pay out interest from my own ISK if for some reason I couldn't spend the time on it I wanted.
Vahdrok Nyrus OX Syndicate Shipyards	Posted - 2009.12.18 14:35:00 - [27] Originally by: cosmoray BPO renting Not sure if want If you don't have a renter after the holidays I might take you up on this. I've been wanting to try cap production and this could be a way to test the waters. -----------------------------
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2009.12.18 15:15:00 - [28] Originally by: cosmoray I have a 2 Orca BPOS (ME 3), and a full set of cap component BPO's 2 jumps out from Jita in a quiet factory. You must be my evil twin

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.