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Ano Regni
Skunk Works Corp.
0
   |
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
First of all and before someone pastes a link, yes I read the Fitting tutorials (2 actually), and they didnGÇÖt explain a whole lot. The situation I have run into is that I have recently upgraded to a Cruiser. This particular cruiser (Vexor) has the following attributes:
5 High points
776 PowerGrid
324 CPU
1250 GJ Capacitor
I recently bought 5 medium turrets for it and I carefully reviewed the info on each turret I bought and figured that all 5 would fit under the Powergrid and CPU umbrella. What I found after purchasing them however, is that I can really only fit 3 (and remain stable (in the green)), on my capacitor, and if I add a 4th, I see the Capacitor says it depletes in 8:07 (highlighted in red). It wonGÇÖt let me add a 5th. Reviewing the turrets themselves, I see nothing that says GÇ£Turret XYZ uses #### amount of the CapacitorGÇ¥, I see an GÇ£ActivationGÇ¥ which reads 10,000 GJ (which obviously doesn't relate given the figure) but that is the only figure I can find with an equivalent unit of measurement (in Joules) and nothing that I can find that allows me to add up the figures and think GÇ£well adding 5 of these will deplete my CapacitorGÇ¥.
So obviously, there is something I am not understanding in terms of calculating this and was just wondering if someone may be able to simply explain it to me? do I need to buy a fitting or rig that betters manages this? If so, how do I still calculate this info to determine that I may need to buy an extra fitting?
thanks |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
1518
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ano Regni wrote:First of all and before someone pastes a link, yes I read the Fitting tutorials (2 actually), and they didnGÇÖt explain a whole lot. The situation I have run into is that I have recently upgraded to a Cruiser. This particular cruiser (Vexor) has the following attributes:
5 High points
776 PowerGrid
324 CPU
1250 GJ Capacitor
I recently bought 5 medium turrets for it and I carefully reviewed the info on each turret I bought and figured that all 5 would fit under the Powergrid and CPU umbrella. What I found after purchasing them however, is that I can really only fit 3 (and remain stable (in the green)), on my capacitor, and if I add a 4th, I see the Capacitor says it depletes in 8:07 (highlighted in red). It wonGÇÖt let me add a 5th. Reviewing the turrets themselves, I see nothing that says GÇ£Turret XYZ uses #### amount of the CapacitorGÇ¥, I see an GÇ£ActivationGÇ¥ which reads 10,000 GJ (which obviously doesn't relate given the figure) but that is the only figure I can find with an equivalent unit of measurement (in Joules) and nothing that I can find that allows me to add up the figures and think GÇ£well adding 5 of these will deplete my CapacitorGÇ¥.
So obviously, there is something I am not understanding in terms of calculating this and was just wondering if someone may be able to simply explain it to me? do I need to buy a fitting or rig that betters manages this? If so, how do I still calculate this info to determine that I may need to buy an extra fitting?
thanks
You have to take into consideration the other modules too. Cap stable fits exist but not for most fits. Activation thingy is for reactivating a mod in space
There are mods for capacitor (like the reactor control unit, a low power mod) |
Domono
Naval Auxiliary Group
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
First off that "activation" should say 10 GJ not 10,000 you may of misread something. You see how many GJ per second your capacitor is producing by looking in the top right of the fitting window. Unfortunately it's not as easy to tell how much capacitor a module is going to use without a bunch of math. Due to the simple fact "show info" only shows base unmodified stats of the module.
My suggestion is get a hold of a little program called Pyfa or EFT(Eve Fitting Tool) and use that to figure
You can get EFT from here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24359
Not sure about Pyfa. |
Ano Regni
Skunk Works Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Domono
I have no other fittings on my ship except the Lasers (and freq. crystals).
Surfins PlunderBunny
yes point instead of comma. But anyways, thats what it says. Technically speaking, it is 9.336 |
Domono
Naval Auxiliary Group
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your using laser turrets on a Vexor? Lasers are the most cap hungry weapons out there. Amarr are the laser uses in the universe, thier ships have better capacitors to handle them and some of them have further capacitor bonuses built in. Try railguns or blasters on your Vexor instead. Gallente ships are intended to use them. Also, a common theme on ships with drone bonuses: They are unable to equip the largest weapons in their catageory. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
1518
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Domono wrote:Your using laser turrets on a Vexor?
Wait, I missed this part due to a wee bit of the consumption *slaps op* |
Domono
Naval Auxiliary Group
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ano Regni wrote:Domono
I have no other fittings on my ship except the Lasers (and freq. crystals). So you will never be able to fit 5 for 5? some ships you can but only under perfect scenarios? or.....? And I see, activation is for in space vs. Hanger, i did remember reading that in one of the tutorials, so that makes sense to me now.
My biggest consern is i dont want to waste money doing the math and buying things when the game doesn't play nice with math, if you understand my reasoning?
Surfins PlunderBunny
yes alright, a decimal point instead of comma. But anyways, thats what it says. Technically speaking, it is 9.336
As I said go get EFT, it lets you check out fittings with a third party program. No spending your isk required.
Also you can check out http://eve.battleclinic.com/browse_loadouts.php to get some general fitting ideas. Granted they wont all work for you due to your low skills. Also some of them are just bad. |
Baneken
Fistful of Finns
Ewoks
134
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's not always possible to fit the highest tier guns on your ship. |
Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
the vexor also only has 4 turret hard points so you will only be able to put 4 guns of any type on it
and yes you should be using the hybrid guns for the vexor |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
1519
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
In all honesty though, I have made a laser cane... the plan was to blind the enemy through sheer surprise then gank him while he was rubbing the burn from his eyes |
Forum Clone 77777
State War Academy
Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 05:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:In all honesty though, I have made a laser cane... the plan was to blind the enemy through sheer surprise then gank him while he was rubbing the burn from his eyes
And how did it go? |
Ano Regni
Skunk Works Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 05:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
so no lasers then? do you know how much those things cost me  ? now I got to sell them all.
alright I will buy rails then, or what about Pulse beams? same thing as lasers?
Domono,
thanks, I did download the app and I will try it tomorrow, when I buy RAILS now. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War
Union 0f Revolution
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 05:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
I came here to point out that what's cutting off your last turret is that the vexor only has 4 turret hard points (white boxes above the high slots under the picture of the weapon turret), which is a hard limit on how many weapons you can put in your high slots separate from CPU/Power.
Since I see that that's been covered: the vexor has a damage bonus to hybrid turrets that's another 25% damage at full skills, so use hybrids. Specifically, I'd recommend railguns to take further advantage of the wider range made available by your drones, though equipping blasters to take out people that orbit close in is also a viable strategy if you're willing to lean on your propulsion to get to things.
Hybrids will also leave you the spare capacitor to run a repairer, which will be important in PvE (missions, primarily).
Just 'cause, though:
By default (i.e. with no skills) the vexor has 1,250 GJ of capacitor, which recharges in 446 seconds (mean recharge rate of about 3Gj/sec). Both of these numbers will change fairly dramatically with skills and fittings. A Heavy Pulse Laser 1 consumes 13.33 GJ (activation cost) and fires every 5 sec (rate of fire), so it consumes about 2.6 Gj/sec.
This is further complicated by the fact that capacitor recharge is non-linear, at about 30% capacitor it "peaks" at about 2.5 times the average recharge rate (as calculated by recharge time to full and total capacitor). So any fitting with a total draw of (again, approximation here) 7.5 Gj will be stable on your theoretical skill-less ship. This tells you that, rule of thumb, you're going to be able to stick two of said pulse lasers on your boat and stay stable, but the third will destabilize your capacitor if fired continuously, just barely.
Obviously you have some skills increasing your capacitor and your cap recharge rate, and reducing the energy cost of lasers, so you're able to fit three, but still aren't quite making it on the fourth. If cap stability is that important to you (ignoring the "don't use lasers" aspect) there is a mid-slot module called a cap recharger and a rig called a capacitor control circuit that'll fix you right up.
Do you want to know this calculation? Yes, it's good to know. Do you want to DO this calculation? Probably not, generally work out some rules-of-thumb for what you'll put on what ship and then just stick things into a spreadsheet (usually the Eve Fitting Tool application) or your actual ship to see if the wheel graphic says it's stable (assuming you actually have the modules on-hand). Don't worry about fitting perfectly this early in the game-- in fact, **** around a bunch, it's what'll make you good at fitting when you get to whatever your advanced/end-game activity is and it's actually important to min-max. |
Ano Regni
Skunk Works Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 05:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
even if it was 4 hardpoints, I am still runnign low on Capacitor. But i have since found out that I need to buy Rails and not lasers. Or I guess skill up on Amarr ships huh?
and thanks for the info Graybeard, I will reread your post tomorrow, when my eyes aren't so tired. You sound like you have a good understanding. |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising
The Kali Cartel
56
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 06:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:In all honesty though, I have made a laser cane... the plan was to blind the enemy through sheer surprise then gank him while he was rubbing the burn from his eyes And how did it go? Surprise buttsex
"- You want a sandwich, Bacon?"
Support horizontal scrollbars in Eve! Click here, tyvm. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
1522
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 06:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:In all honesty though, I have made a laser cane... the plan was to blind the enemy through sheer surprise then gank him while he was rubbing the burn from his eyes And how did it go?
Went about as expected... the gank party never showed up and I got pwned |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars
Ethereal Dawn
277
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 08:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
1.) Lasers take huge amount of capacitor to fire. Amarr boats have huge amount of capacitor, Gallente don't.
2.) Pulse lasers are still lasers. Want to use guns, use hybrids. Also take a look what bonuses a ship give, it should give you an idea of what to fit.
3.) No need to buy anything before you checked it out. EFT / Pyfa / EVEHQ all let you "build" your fit virtually to see if it works before you even opened EVE.
4.) Vexor has 4 Turret-hardpoints. Having 5 high-slots doesn't mean you can fit 5 turrets. The amount of turret hardpoints (or missile hardpoints) dictate how many you can fit in there.
Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á
If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it.
We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
336
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 09:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Make sure you train to L3 at the least
* Energy Management (increases Capacitor capacity by 5 percent per level)
* Energy Systems Operation (decreases Capacitor recharge time by 5 percent per level)
Many Amarr ships get bonuses for capacitor and lazor damage so they generally only work well on those boats.
Still, "Gallente must use Hybrid guns" is not set in stone. For example, the autocannon Myrmidon is very popular as Projectile weapons don't use any capacitor at all.
Also sometimes it can be worthwhile to ignore specific bonuses and make a small Hybrid Thorax for example and fitting a huge tank instead of medium Hybrids guns which the Thorax gets a bonus for.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES !
Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1542
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 09:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
There's also the Controlled Bursts skill which reduces the capacitor usage per cycle. Of course there's also Rapid Firing which increases rate of fire, negating Controlled Bursts ;)
I've seen a few laser Vexors around lately: why do people do this?
Day 0 advice for new players: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=77176 |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 10:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I've seen a few laser Vexors around lately: why do people do this?
Some players do crazy things. Haven't seen those yet, but like I've mentioned before I've seen way too many arty Harbingers recently. |
Amarr Haircare Products
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 11:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I've seen a few laser Vexors around lately: why do people do this?
*Lasers! That's cool!" or "Lasers! Infinite ammo! Awesome!"
*2 minutes later in a Rookie chat*
"How can I increase my ship's capacitor?" |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising
The Kali Cartel
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 15:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
If there is a wrong way to do something, then someone will do it.
"- You want a sandwich, Bacon?"
Support horizontal scrollbars in Eve! Click here, tyvm. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
605
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 16:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Look at the description of a Vexor.
Quote:The Vexor is a strong combat ship that is also geared to operate in a variety of other roles. (blah blah blah)
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield per skill level.
This should give you a good starting idea which weapons systems to use. |
Ano Regni
Skunk Works Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 16:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ok, so Gallante ships +Lasers = stupid uneducated noob wasting 22Mil on guns that won't work Just to Get out of buying hybrid ammo
.:. Learned my lesson  I understand now.
I'll switch to hybrids, or skill up on flying amarr ships right?
Greybeard,
Thanks I understand now. Your explanation makes sense. I am an engineer and worse yet; Software....so I dont think we are satisfied unless we understand the math and analyze the software, and it drives us crazy until we do wierd like that.
Louis,
I am pretty much level IV but do lack skills in energy, so your right, which hinders that aspect. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War
Union 0f Revolution
85
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 17:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
To be fair to the lasers-on-a-vexor idea, it's not _that_ terrible. A lot of PVP fits, for instance, rely mostly on drone damage and fit a passive tank, so if your lasers are what you have fully trained through T2 medium guns and you don't have hybrids up to the same skill point levels you might as well. It's not like you'll use the guns continuously in any case if you're focusing on using the drones as your primary, they're probably mostly for burst to keep certain ship types at a distance.
This is the situation for a lot of people who train Amarr first, decide they're boring, and swap to Gallente because they both armor tank. T2 lasers with scorch are probably going to work better than T1 hybrids with only hybrid turrets 2 or 3, bonus regardless. |
Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 00:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:There's also the Controlled Bursts skill which reduces the capacitor usage per cycle. Of course there's also Rapid Firing which increases rate of fire, negating Controlled Bursts ;)
I've seen a few laser Vexors around lately: why do people do this?
i love my vexors as asteroid belt scouts/ hisec ratting. i can send all three characters out to a seperate belt, deploy drones while i tamper with other characters and the drones do all the work. |
Yuriko Deathstrike
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 08:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ano Regni wrote:First of all and before someone pastes a link, yes I read the Fitting tutorials (2 actually), and they didnGÇÖt explain a whole lot. The situation I have run into is that I have recently upgraded to a Cruiser. This particular cruiser (Vexor) has the following attributes:
5 High points
776 PowerGrid
324 CPU
1250 GJ Capacitor
What I found after purchasing them however, is that I can really only fit 3 (and remain stable (in the green)), on my capacitor, and if I add a 4th, I see the Capacitor says it depletes in 8:07 (highlighted in red). It wonGÇÖt let me add a 5th. Reviewing the turrets themselves, I see nothing that says GÇ£Turret XYZ uses #### amount of the CapacitorGÇ¥, I see an GÇ£ActivationGÇ¥ which reads 10,000 GJ (which obviously doesn't relate given the figure) but that is the only figure I can find with an equivalent unit of measurement (in Joules) and nothing that I can find that allows me to add up the figures and think GÇ£well adding 5 of these will deplete my CapacitorGÇ¥.
So obviously, there is something I am not understanding in terms of calculating this and was just wondering if someone may be able to simply explain it to me? do I need to buy a fitting or rig that betters manages this? If so, how do I still calculate this info to determine that I may need to buy an extra fitting?
thanks
It says you run out of cap in 8 minutes, but think to yourself...do you plan on staying in combat continously for 8 minutes? with all your modules toggled on? thats what cap stable/cap runs out in xx:xx is all about. In the fitting window (ALT F) the time for "cap depletes in" is if you run all modules that have an activation cost.
Say you have a ship and you want to see how long you can run on afterburner with your weapons. Then in the fit window you can see how long that would be by turning off all other modules that have an activation cost EXCEPT your weapons and the AB. If you want to see how long it takes to run out of cap with only a shield booster active, then you turn off all weapons and other modules and just leave the shield booster on.
Also your cap or capacitor limit is rated in GJ or gigajoules, most weapons also have an activation cost which is given in GJ. I say most weapons because weapons like projectile weapons and launchers do not have an activation cost. So you are just reading the modules wrong, the units are right there for you to see. You might want to check your weapon again, thats probably a decimal in there and not a comma. It may have been 10.001 instead of 10,000.
Depending on what ship you are flying and if you PVP or PVE you may have to gear up for either more cap recharge, shield recharge, shield capacity, or resists. A lot of times when you gear up for one of those, the other will be affected. |
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