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Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Moira.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 08:36:00 -
[1]
This isn't just about what to fix about Faction Warfare, it's about when. Not Soon(tm), not three years from now.
I was watching the Fanfest videos a day or so ago, and in watching the one talking about Dominion (although it's already out) I heard something interesting: The reason that CCP decided to roll with the sovereignty overhaul was because the coming of Dust 514 and the interaction with Eve made it necessary.
Granted, not even CCP knows how or if Dust will affect faction war yet - but let's presume that there's a high likelihood they will. So my argument is that the same principle ought to apply to FW as did to 0.0 sovereignty.
Apocrypha 1.1 brought in some changes that were an attempt to address some of the issues but also brought in unintended consequences that have been considered detrimental to the FW environment. But perhaps the biggest problem in my mind is the timing: The patch should have been done for Empyrian Age 1.x, not Apocrypha almost a year later. Even if they were smaller, incremental changes, they would have combated the nagging worry that CCP had "abandoned FW" that existed before the patch. And because the shape of the battlefield can change in a week or a day, CCP needs to be watching FW closely and be responsive to changes. It took at least a couple weeks before the storyline team noticed Intaki had fallen to the Caldari and longer for them to move ahead with the storyline appropriately.
tldr:
- Be more attentive to the state of FW and make sure the players know it's getting attention.
- Push more numerous, more frequent and if need be smaller incremental updates to handle issues that can be handled in this manner.
- Commit to the release of a larger FW overhaul before the Dust 514 release, preferably within a year.
The priorities (in my opinion) for said overhaul are these. (However, you don't have to agree with them to vote up the proposal.)
- A complete revamp of the plexing mechanic so that it is more fun, interactive and can't be gamed by single speed tank interceptors and the like.
- The addition of gameplay consequences for captured systems.
- PVP kills have a reward and affect the outcome of system occupancy.
The specifics are best left to other proposals of course.
(Disclaimer: I'm back on a 5 day promotion pass, too poor to subscribe, so I may not be around to update this much. I've jumped back to FW for the duration and it was good to see the current action, but it doesn't change my evaluation of the flaws.)
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"Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies." |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.22 11:36:00 -
[2]
Wholeheartedly agree, communication is key if any kind of satisfaction is to be felt by customers/players.
Approaching two years and the only changes made so far have been CCP fixing bugs/flaws that they themselves created by accident .. FW is in serious need of work.
I posted my vision of how I would like FW to be keeping in mind the current bottlenecks, flaws and loop holes. While of the points can be used separately it is thought out as a package-deal.
Doesn't take much to make combat intense, cheap, fun and educational .. let the sun rise once more please, the darkness consumes us!
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Koronakesh
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:05:00 -
[3]
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.22 22:56:00 -
[4]
Not much else to say that the OP Hasn't already covered, so
Supported
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Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
Gottii
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:01:00 -
[5]
Moar please
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.12.23 02:16:00 -
[6]
You'd think with the countless threads that CCP would have figured out that people play FW.
Stop thinking about stealing WoW subscriptions and start finishing features for paying EvE subscribers.
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Rebel Witch
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.24 09:42:00 -
[7]
I may try Faction War someday and hope it gets as much attention as the rest of EVE.
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Bucky O'Hair
Crimson Light Horse Brigade
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Posted - 2009.12.24 15:39:00 -
[8]
I just started FW after being in EVE for 9 months, I WANT to stay in FW, but it is difficult to stay motivated. I hope CCP does fix FW!
Veshta Yoshida's post on what needs fixing is spot on, well, except for the trolls, and thier idiotic replys.
CCP TAKE NOTE!!!!
Death to the Slavers!!
Bucky O'Hair
"If it flys it dies!" |
Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.01.10 20:50:00 -
[9]
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Arivana
Federal Logistics Wing 01
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Posted - 2010.01.10 21:24:00 -
[10]
kindly fix FW, THIS YEAR would be good.
_______________________________________
There is nothing in this world for free; save for death.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.01.10 21:58:00 -
[11]
No. Just shut the whole thing down, permanently.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.01.11 00:39:00 -
[12]
We complained that FW had been abandon by CCP.
So they gave us LP for PvP.
We shut up and waited for the patch.
It turned out to be fail.
So they dropped more candy on the floor.
Problem is all the candy has been lil things designed only to reduce complaints.
At no stage has anyone taken a serious look at fixing FW.
Agile Scrum is neat and all but FW needs a permanent scrum.
Going years without having a single developer assigned to this major part of the game is crazy.
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Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.01.11 01:21:00 -
[13]
In what way do you demand in be done before DUST? FW and DUST have nothing to do with each other so your statement makes no sense other than to say you somehow believe that the development of DUST by a separate division is somehow impacting the EVE devs.
Is FW broken? Yes.
Will jumping up and down and attempting to give deadlines that don't have anything related to what you're demanding help? No.
Your current proposal amounts to nothing more than "fix it before you do X", which is a useless proposal if presented to CCP. You want it to actually mean something then put some actual timelines in there. Prioritize your ideas, throw in a "we want to see change A in 3 months, B 3 months after, etc."
And be realistic.
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Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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Jared Ulfsuun
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Posted - 2010.01.11 06:05:00 -
[14]
Supporting FW updates, but timing in relation to DUST is irrelevant.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.01.11 06:19:00 -
[15]
 Originally by: Jared Ulfsuun
Supporting FW updates, but timing in relation to DUST is irrelevant.
This. The fw mechanics are not only so broken in design, but even outright buggy that it's beyond any semblance of humour.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.01.12 04:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: chatgris
This. The fw mechanics are not only so broken in design, but even outright buggy that it's beyond any semblance of humour.
There will be no fix, ever. CCP have made this very clear. The best we can hope for is that all the systems return to their original owners, CCP permanently disables the militias and that they provide some sort of reimbursement for the wasted time.
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I SoStoned
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.12 05:42:00 -
[17]
Edited by: I SoStoned on 12/01/2010 05:45:21
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: chatgris
This. The fw mechanics are not only so broken in design, but even outright buggy that it's beyond any semblance of humour.
There will be no fix, ever. CCP have made this very clear. The best we can hope for is that all the systems return to their original owners, CCP permanently disables the militias and that they provide some sort of reimbursement for the wasted time.
QFT;
As with the old COSMOS, FacWar was released, realized to be buggy beyond sanity, and CCP just threw up their hands and gave up. It's unlikely they'll ever bother to examine it again, just like they did with COSMOS other than fix the insane farming issues.
And, well, they've done their farming fix somewhat, so... that's that.
COSMOS is now a nonissue and languishes as a decent concept with completely abandoned followthrough.
Alas, such is CCP. All we can do is expect it to get far, far worse with D514.
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Vheri Kai'or
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Posted - 2010.01.12 11:52:00 -
[18]
not that i do FW, but i can sure as hell udnerstand the resoning behind wanting the game we play now to work properly (or some semblance thereof) prior to release of DUST
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Nihil Magnus
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Posted - 2010.01.12 17:22:00 -
[19]
A lot of the customers enjoy fw, listen to them.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.13 03:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nihil Magnus
A lot of the customers enjoy fw, listen to them.
And there is room for a lot more as well. Good mechanics would only help entice more into it.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Super Chair
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Posted - 2010.01.13 06:37:00 -
[21]
I support this. As it stands now plexing only benefits the individual through standing.
The npc's need to be toned down a bit in terms of ewar so they don't dismotivate ( ie play a smaller role in the outcome of) player vs player combat inside a plex at the very least.
There needs to be some sort of reward beyond standing for plexing (LP, Isk, you name it). Also system ocupancy should mean something beyond occupying a system for giggles and bragging rights.
The concept of plexes was a very nice idea. It would promote combat between simillar types of ships, something that caught the eye of a poor/new-ish player such as myself.
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Montmazar
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
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Posted - 2010.01.13 08:36:00 -
[22]
Agreed, although this:
Quote:
- PVP kills have a reward and affect the outcome of system occupancy.
sounds way too easy to exploit.
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BloodBird
Nova Foundry
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Posted - 2010.02.23 02:15:00 -
[23]
Supported and bumped - If FW could be balanced out and the fixing needed could start sooner, rather than way later, perhaps FW's issues might be fixed by the end of the year.
The system do not need removal - that won't ever happend with storylines moving on as they do - the system merely needs to get the attentional fixes we as paying costumers deserve.
FW can be so much better than it is right now.
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Alexander Kamy· Allisieer - CO-founder, NOVAF |
TeaDaze
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Posted - 2010.02.23 05:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
You'd think with the countless threads that CCP would have figured out that people play FW.
I get the impression that CCP rely on data from the game itself rather than count the number of forum threads.
To the OP, if you saw the fanfest presentations you might notice that Dust is not Eve (and thus outside the scope of the CSM) and is being developed by a totally separate team in a different country.
CSM have already voted on a number of FW issues but attempting to tie the release of another game to FW fixes isn't going to get us anywhere 
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Marlona Sky
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.02.23 10:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Faraelle Brightman
100% of all of CCP employees are not working on one aspect, of what I am currently doing, in one of the games within said company, and now I am mad! 
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Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2010.03.01 15:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: TeaDaze
To the OP, if you saw the fanfest presentations you might notice that Dust is not Eve (and thus outside the scope of the CSM) and is being developed by a totally separate team in a different country.
From my impression from those presentations and DUST trailer: DUST won't start out as having an influence on 0.0, but instead on Factional Warfare. If this intention remains on the part of CCP, then it only makes sense that Factional Warfare be repaired to ensure a smooth integration of the two games.
It may be appropriate for the guys at CCP Iceland/Eve Team to talk to the DUST team about about these interaction points and ensuring that the DUST players don't get stuck fighting in the same 5 or 6 systems because no one wants to play FW in Eve.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.03.02 00:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Minutes
CCP prefers to use development resources on improving nullsec warfare rather than on factional warfare, but is still committed to fixing existing exploits and views it as a high priority.
In other words, "I have no perspective on FW, I really don't even understand what the problems are and kinda wish it was never developed in the first place, thus I'm not assigning a scrum team to it and no work will be done on it at all until after 0.0 is 'finished'.".
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 12:20:00 -
[28]
CCP need to either fix FW or end it.
It's as simple as that.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Andreus LeHane
Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2010.03.02 18:10:00 -
[29]
Decided to support this after all.
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Jianni Sotaku
Eleutherian Guard
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Posted - 2010.03.05 07:13:00 -
[30]
You have my support.
Lets kick things up a notch.
BAM!
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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2010.03.05 09:53:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 05/03/2010 09:52:58
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 02/03/2010 08:37:49
Rewritten post....
I believe the problem people are having here is a problem with the Agile Scrum process itself.
The system isn't perfect and there are trade-offs in any methodology. With re-balancing,
finishing of existing expansions, and factionwar in general coming well behind 0.0 and bug chasing,
and with no permanent "product owner" of factionwar the priorities combine to leave users of FW
left out in the cold. Without a scrum and to our best reckoning without any staff at all assigned.
Is it possible that each expansion needs it's own product owner that then stays with it and communicates with the public?
It is meant to be user driven right?
Very observant, and this is the truth. I personally asked CCP who are the people responsible for FW. There IS no-one responsible. When game design is confronted with any FW matter, they go "This is not my responsibility, and I'm already assigned to X", and the issues the CSM send to them end up in limbo as they do not get assigned to any team.
Same thing with bug fixing, there is no-one sitting on the other end to pick up FW bug issues. GM people do not know how the FW mechanics work either, so when confronted with bugs/exploits, these tickets do not get resolved properly either.
FW needs a team permanently assigned to it, period.
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Click banner for info! |
Alain Colcer
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2010.03.05 14:37:00 -
[32]
I support the motion to revisit FW and fix the purpose and mechanic of "plexing".
However there must be a general scope review, from capabilities of NPCs (With their EWAR for example) to Standings/LP gains for doing FW.
I would like to see fewer quantities of NPCs in plexes, but a bit more dangerous with not only jamming/dampening/disrupting/painting EWar, but warp scrambling and webbing too. With Long range and short range weaponry on all factions. And with plexes that DO look like real military garrisons (maybe stasis towers? neutering towers?).
Executing FW missions, which i have, is a bridge between missioning and real PvP, but real Militia corps do not gain the "War" by running them, they win the war by capturing systems and killing opposing fleets. Please take these concepts into consideration.
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Cearain
Caldari
ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.03.05 15:44:00 -
[33]
There are a few bugs in faction war that need to be fixed. But I think FW gets a low priority because its not seen as really important to players wallets. You don't lose anything tangible when you lose systems. Whereas if there are bugs in Null sec players are losing large amounts of isk.
While I agree that any bugs should be fixed I can't see how this is somehow more urgent than other bugs.
As far as a larger "fix" Well everyone has different (often contradictory) ideas about what that should be. More Npc involvment less npc involvement etc.
I would like to see people propose real things that they would like to see fixed as opposed to vague requests for more attention.
For me I would like to see a few more faction war exclusive items.
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Sinjin Mokk
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2010.03.26 00:56:00 -
[34]
I totaly support a major overhaul of FW.
"Stacking" needs to end. The "Timer Bug" for major plexes needs to be fixed.
If you look at IGS, you will see most every post are by chracters who are in some way invlolved with or affected by FW.
The 0.0 space problems of CVA, U'K, Star Fraction and all the rest are tied into FW. The Intaki thread is tied into FW.
The wars between the major governmnts, one of the main themes of EVE is played out every day...not by mining, not by industry, not by exploration, but by the wars between the governemnts.
Yeah. Change is needed.
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