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Hans Zwaardhandler
Borealis Mining Concern
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
16
   |
Posted - 2012.06.20 17:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just a quick question that I was hoping to have answered since not a lot of people seem to know, but how many points can you have per attribute? Trying to optimize for the next year or so of skill planning, and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Also, was out for about nine months from Eve, so I am trying to make up for lost time and catch back up with some of my friends who have soared past me.
Any help and answers are appreciated, and I thank you all in advance. |
Killian Redbeard
Mindhead Cosmic Conditioning
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 17:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Use Evemon or EveHQ for skill planning and it has a function that will optimize your attributes for your skill plan. |
Hans Zwaardhandler
Borealis Mining Concern
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
16
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Killian Redbeard wrote:Use Evemon or EveHQ for skill planning and it has a function that will optimize your attributes for your skill plan.
I do have Evemon, but I am planning on switching out some implants, something I can not do from where I am at due to the low supply of cash and the low amount of the implants that I want at this location, and also sense the current plan I have calls on me to boost Perception up by a large amount till it fills the bar in the program to show what you should allocate points in. Trying to ask, as I plan on eventually getting a set of +5s to help the skill training along. |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:Killian Redbeard wrote:Use Evemon or EveHQ for skill planning and it has a function that will optimize your attributes for your skill plan. I do have Evemon, but I am planning on switching out some implants, something I can not do from where I am at due to the low supply of cash and the low amount of the implants that I want at this location, and also sense the current plan I have calls on me to boost Perception up by a large amount till it fills the bar in the program to show what you should allocate points in. Trying to ask, as I plan on eventually getting a set of +5s to help the skill training along.
There is an option on evemon to add implants too. |
Joe Hinken
Cetan Consortium
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
IIRC, if you log in you can play with your attributes via the Remap to see how high you can get the relevant ones, just don't save the changes until you're happy. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
466
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
27 max (+ implants on top)
17 minimum
14 points to distribute between 5 attributes.
FuzzWork Enterprises
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/
Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Hans Zwaardhandler
Borealis Mining Concern
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
16
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ah, thank you all, I will work on that later on. |
Freezehunter
157
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
I also have a minor question about attributes.
When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
Just have a set training time from level one to level five on all tiers.
Tier one:
Lvl1 5 min
Lvl 2 30 min
Lvl 3 5 hours
Lvl 4 20 hours
Lvl 5 2 days
Tier two (2x):
Lvl 1 10min
Lvl 2 1 hour
Lvl 3 10 hours
Lvl 4 40 hours
Lvl 5 4 days
And so on and so forth.
Also, do away with the attribute system and replace them with actual **** you can use in combat, like cheaper, more useful and less powerful versions of the T2 combat implants.
I'd much rather lose a combat equipped clone than waste money on ******* learning implants+the super expensive 90 mil clone I have every time I get podded, just to not train slowly.
Just put everyone on the same learning time across all tiers to make it balanced.
Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
1542
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:I also have a minor question about attributes.
When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game.
Just have a set training time from level one to level five on all tiers.
Tier one:
Lvl1 5 min
Lvl 2 30 min
Lvl 3 5 hours
Lvl 4 20 hours
Lvl 5 2 days
Tier two (2x):
Lvl 1 10min
Lvl 2 1 hour
Lvl 3 10 hours
Lvl 4 40 hours
Lvl 5 4 days
And so on and so forth.
Also, do away with the attribute system and replace them with actual **** you can use in combat, like cheaper, more useful and less powerful versions of the T2 combat implants.
I'd much rather lose a combat equipped clone that givesme some actual benefits in PVP and is WORTH losing, than waste money on ******* learning implants + the super expensive 90 mil clone I have every time I get podded, just to not train slowly.
Just put everyone on the same learning time across all tiers to make it balanced.
This would also encourage newer players with less money to PVP, because they won't go like "Oh, I can't come pvp with you guys because I am in my expensive learning clone".
And don't start with "But you have jump clones", new-ish characters have to grind standings for ages to get access to a jump clone in the first place, this encourages endless mission running instead of PVPing, and we wonder why some people only do missions, get bored and quit the game.
how about no
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Freezehunter
157
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Morganta wrote:Freezehunter wrote:I also have a minor question about attributes.
When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game.
Just have a set training time from level one to level five on all tiers.
Tier one:
Lvl1 5 min
Lvl 2 30 min
Lvl 3 5 hours
Lvl 4 20 hours
Lvl 5 2 days
Tier two (2x):
Lvl 1 10min
Lvl 2 1 hour
Lvl 3 10 hours
Lvl 4 40 hours
Lvl 5 4 days
And so on and so forth.
Also, do away with the attribute system and replace them with actual **** you can use in combat, like cheaper, more useful and less powerful versions of the T2 combat implants.
I'd much rather lose a combat equipped clone that givesme some actual benefits in PVP and is WORTH losing, than waste money on ******* learning implants + the super expensive 90 mil clone I have every time I get podded, just to not train slowly.
Just put everyone on the same learning time across all tiers to make it balanced.
This would also encourage newer players with less money to PVP, because they won't go like "Oh, I can't come pvp with you guys because I am in my expensive learning clone".
And don't start with "But you have jump clones", new-ish characters have to grind standings for ages to get access to a jump clone in the first place, this encourages endless mission running instead of PVPing, and we wonder why some people only do missions, get bored and quit the game. how about no
How about you make a decent post for once, instead of your usual trolling bullshit, Morg?
Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8114
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:I also have a minor question about attributes.
When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game. GǪaside from creating choices, cost/benefit decisions, and long-term planning. All of them good things.
Unlike learning skills, they are not a pointless meta-mechanic that makes it more effective not to play the game for the first few months. The two are not particularly alike.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
One of EVE's principles (regarding the skill system) is "You can do anything, but you can't do everything"
By having attributes and variable speeds of training, it encourages specialization without locking you out of specific skills. A combat pilot can pick up a few trade skills on the side if they're willing to tolerate a slower training rate, but they are encouraged to focus on ships, guns and other combat related items, as those give them the most ideal SP/Hour.
Remaps give us some flexibility to shift focus, but given their very limited nature, they still encourage specialization.
Allowing all players to train all types of skills at equal speed would discourage specialization by allowing everyone to dabble in things they normally don't without any penalty. Having to plan out your skill training while factoring in your short term goals, long term goals, current attributes and available remaps is part of EVE's complexity that (IMHO) improves the experience.
Specialization also encourages inter-dependency. Inter-dependency encourages player interaction.
Of course, nothing is stopping you from having completely (or almost completely) even stats if you choose to remap that way. You gain flexibility but you lose out on those 2500 + sp/hour training rates you get when training up skills you are geared for.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
154
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
You get 14 attributes to place on your remap, and you can place up to 10 in any one attribute. The most common and most important skill-attribute setups are perception and willpower (gunnery, missile launchers, most ship command), and intelligence and memory (electronics, engineering, mechanics, science, industry). You can also train the outliers on one of those two plans, if you just choose by their primary attribute, and then you can have a final charisma remap for the skills that are primarily charisma (leadership).
-á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters
i'm strangely comfortable with it"
-Mittens |
Freezehunter
157
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Freezehunter wrote:I also have a minor question about attributes.
When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game. GǪaside from creating choices, cost/benefit decisions, and long-term planning. All of them good things. Unlike learning skills, they are not a pointless meta-mechanic that makes it more effective not to play the game for the first few months. The two are not particularly alike.
And what choices do attribute implants give you?
Train fast or train slow?
Pfft...
I'd rather have my system.
Everyone trains at the same speed and uses PVP implants instead.
I'd much rather blow money on PVP implants in the first 5 slots than learning implants.
Not to mention that high sec mission runners can just have a +5 set forever with no risk and they never lose it.
What's the matter, are all the mission runners afraid that they won't make boat loads of ISK by getting implants with LP and selling them anymore?
Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
154
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:Not to mention that high sec mission runners can just have a +5 set forever with no risk and they never use it.
I think a good solution to this would be illegal pirate attribute implants that are cheaper than regular implants. Then everyone can afford to wear attribute implants at at least +3. And you still have slots 6-10 for pvp implants.
-á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters
i'm strangely comfortable with it"
-Mittens |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8114
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:And what choices do attribute implants give you? The same.
Quote:I'd much rather blow money on PVP implants in the first 5 slots than learning implants. Then do so. The choice is yours. That's what this system offers, unlike what you're proposing.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Attribute implants are about risk vs reward
The more expensive implants you install, the greater your reward (from higher SP training rates) but the more financial risk you being podded becomes. Those +5 pilots in high sec? Missing out on the rewards of low/null/wh and they aren't immune unless they never undock.
Players can tilt the risk/reward ratio in their favor by use of jump clones, but this just allows you to dial up and down your risk/reward. When you hop into an implantless clone to go WH hopping, you are giving up your higher skill training rate (for the time being) while shielding yourself from excess financial loss if you get bubbled and podded.
The Risk/Reward dynamic is what keeps attribute implants a meaningful choice and absolutely nothing like the abomination that was learning skills. It doesn't take long at all for a new player to get Science IV, Cybernetics I and get +3 implants.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Spurty
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
285
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Posting in the sort of thread, the like of which I've not seen since 2007 days!
----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
You can train at a set speed across the board any time you want. Don't remap and don't implant. Done. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2429
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Posting in the sort of thread, the like of which I've not seen since 2007 days!
Those years must have been hard on you, since you turned in to a black man during that time.
@attribute topic
Removing them isn't necessary to address the PvP concerns they create. Doing so would only remove options and consequenses from th game and turn things uniform and uninteresting. Do not want. |
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
588
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why do we have this thread in GD?
|
Hans Zwaardhandler
Borealis Mining Concern
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
16
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 00:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
AFK Hauler wrote:Why do we have this thread in GD?
Seemed like a better idea than putting it elsewhere. Where do you think I should have put it? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2012
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 01:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:Tippia wrote:Freezehunter wrote:I also have a minor question about attributes.
When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game. GǪaside from creating choices, cost/benefit decisions, and long-term planning. All of them good things. Unlike learning skills, they are not a pointless meta-mechanic that makes it more effective not to play the game for the first few months. The two are not particularly alike. And what choices do attribute implants give you? Train fast or train slow? Pfft... I'd rather have my system. Everyone trains at the same speed and uses PVP implants instead. I'd much rather blow money on PVP implants in the first 5 slots than learning implants. Not to mention that high sec mission runners can just have a +5 set forever with no risk and they never lose it. What's the matter, are all the mission runners afraid that they won't make boat loads of ISK by getting implants with LP and selling them anymore?
Learning implants aren't a great mechanic, agreed. No reason to tie remaps into removing them.
Remaps reward long term planning etc. Remaps are good.
Attribute implants tend to discourage suicidally fun behavior (and PvP in general). They do have a certain amount of giving you a reward for taking a risk, but I honestly don't think it's great to reward risk with SP (especially since the primary result is some serious risk avoidance).
This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
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