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Kraven Kor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:00:00 -
[61]
Here is an idea:
Log Off Timer:
No timer if logging while in a station
15 Second Timer if in 0.5~1.0 Space
30 Second Timer if in 0.4 or lower space
The "2 minute disappear timer" starts as soon as you log. However, your ship WILL NOT DISAPPEAR unless it is able to warp to a "safe spot." If you log off while warp scrambled, you are most likely screwed.
In the case of LD, it just adds 15~30 seconds until you will warp out. Yes, this could cause problems but if they made it so NPC's would not attack a LD ship... I'm not sure if that would/could work or if it would be a good idea though. Maybe just change NPC warp scramble so that it doesn't prevent LD warp-out, but PC warp scramblers do? Dunno.
Logging in:
Log on in Station: All modules on, cap and shield full.
Log on in space: If you log on in space, your ship will have all modules turned off and cap at zero. As we all know, you can't activate a module in space until cap is at 75%. In addition, you will be unable to warp until your cap reaches 50%. There will be a 2 minute grace period, then your cap will drain over a period of 1 minute, then you modules will turn off at the 5 minute mark -- to minimize the effect of "true" LD's.
Not sure if that would work or if it solves everything, but it could be a good idea I think.
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Kraven Kor
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:00:00 -
[62]
Here is an idea:
Log Off Timer:
No timer if logging while in a station
15 Second Timer if in 0.5~1.0 Space
30 Second Timer if in 0.4 or lower space
The "2 minute disappear timer" starts as soon as you log. However, your ship WILL NOT DISAPPEAR unless it is able to warp to a "safe spot." If you log off while warp scrambled, you are most likely screwed.
In the case of LD, it just adds 15~30 seconds until you will warp out. Yes, this could cause problems but if they made it so NPC's would not attack a LD ship... I'm not sure if that would/could work or if it would be a good idea though. Maybe just change NPC warp scramble so that it doesn't prevent LD warp-out, but PC warp scramblers do? Dunno.
Logging in:
Log on in Station: All modules on, cap and shield full.
Log on in space: If you log on in space, your ship will have all modules turned off and cap at zero. As we all know, you can't activate a module in space until cap is at 75%. In addition, you will be unable to warp until your cap reaches 50%. There will be a 2 minute grace period, then your cap will drain over a period of 1 minute, then you modules will turn off at the 5 minute mark -- to minimize the effect of "true" LD's.
Not sure if that would work or if it solves everything, but it could be a good idea I think.
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Necronomicon
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:17:00 -
[63]
/emote installs +3 Pedant implant
it is 95% cap for modules 
/emote removes +3 Pedant implant
Good idea about the logging in in space, you would have to wait a good 5-10 mins to get a battleship fully operational, all element of LOG IN SUPRISE would be lost.
Starsi dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them. |
Necronomicon
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:17:00 -
[64]
/emote installs +3 Pedant implant
it is 95% cap for modules
/emote removes +3 Pedant implant
Good idea about the logging in in space, you would have to wait a good 5-10 mins to get a battleship fully operational, all element of LOG IN SUPRISE would be lost.
Starsi dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them. |
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:26:00 -
[65]
 Originally by: Necronomicon
Good idea about the logging in in space, you would have to wait a good 5-10 mins to get a battleship fully operational, all element of LOG IN SUPRISE would be lost.
This idea is horrible. EVE crashes for me at least twice a day. Warping into an enemy fleet, crashing, then logging back on, instawarping into their fleet, and realizing I have no modules?
And a battleship with all modules offline will take nearly an hour to online outside a station. I'm not sitting in a safespot for an hour just because I logged or crashed away from a station.
Honestly people... do you even think before you spew such obvious crap?
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:26:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Necronomicon
Good idea about the logging in in space, you would have to wait a good 5-10 mins to get a battleship fully operational, all element of LOG IN SUPRISE would be lost.
This idea is horrible. EVE crashes for me at least twice a day. Warping into an enemy fleet, crashing, then logging back on, instawarping into their fleet, and realizing I have no modules?
And a battleship with all modules offline will take nearly an hour to online outside a station. I'm not sitting in a safespot for an hour just because I logged or crashed away from a station.
Honestly people... do you even think before you spew such obvious crap?
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Mujun Kross
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:41:00 -
[67]
I read some of what was posted here so if this has already been stated then my apologies.
Currently, on shiva/exodus, if you log out in space all of your modules are off-line when you log back in.
.
.
.
"Come now, my child, if we were planning to harm you, do you think we'd be lurking here, beside the path, in the very darkest part of the forest?"
-Kenneth Patchen "But Even So" |
Mujun Kross
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:41:00 -
[68]
I read some of what was posted here so if this has already been stated then my apologies.
Currently, on shiva/exodus, if you log out in space all of your modules are off-line when you log back in.
.
.
.
"Come now, my child, if we were planning to harm you, do you think we'd be lurking here, beside the path, in the very darkest part of the forest?"
-Kenneth Patchen "But Even So" |
Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.17 19:59:00 -
[69]
Way to be unreasonable Rollin. How about we just recommend extending such a timer to a few more minutes rather than scrap the idea altogether.
Just because your connection sucks is no reason not to implement sa***uards against the cheap fleet logoff/login exploits.
Somehow, I get the impression that effective long term player organization is threatening to luddites everywhere. As it should be. Step aside and let the game evolve into something a bit more elaborate and grandiose please.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.17 19:59:00 -
[70]
Way to be unreasonable Rollin. How about we just recommend extending such a timer to a few more minutes rather than scrap the idea altogether.
Just because your connection sucks is no reason not to implement sa***uards against the cheap fleet logoff/login exploits.
Somehow, I get the impression that effective long term player organization is threatening to luddites everywhere. As it should be. Step aside and let the game evolve into something a bit more elaborate and grandiose please.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2004.11.17 20:15:00 -
[71]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 17/11/2004 20:18:41
Currently, on shiva/exodus, if you log out in space all of your modules are off-line when you log back in.
i like the idea of paying a price for actions such as that, im still thinking of the time when me and a pal where at that the gate in r3 with two ravens waiting too get the jump on a enemy, as he jumped through and worped to the next gate he loged in rote. this was a act of war now not pirating. it just was a **** off. i am however worreid about when im ratting and i lose my connection. i mean, i know sometimes you will shot out away from the rats then when you re-log you shot back into them. if my modules are shut down i would be one sick dude. if i go too a safe spot and log i dont wont no off-line modules when i come back. honestly you people seem too wont it so you pick the terms when i have too fight not me as a player. no player should be forced into a fight that he cant win.
if you trap me ok. thats a diffrent matter. thats just luck of the draw. i choose when too lose or engage with my ship. i still wona keep that chose in the game.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2004.11.17 20:15:00 -
[72]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 17/11/2004 20:18:41
Currently, on shiva/exodus, if you log out in space all of your modules are off-line when you log back in.
i like the idea of paying a price for actions such as that, im still thinking of the time when me and a pal where at that the gate in r3 with two ravens waiting too get the jump on a enemy, as he jumped through and worped to the next gate he loged in rote. this was a act of war now not pirating. it just was a **** off. i am however worreid about when im ratting and i lose my connection. i mean, i know sometimes you will shot out away from the rats then when you re-log you shot back into them. if my modules are shut down i would be one sick dude. if i go too a safe spot and log i dont wont no off-line modules when i come back. honestly you people seem too wont it so you pick the terms when i have too fight not me as a player. no player should be forced into a fight that he cant win.
if you trap me ok. thats a diffrent matter. thats just luck of the draw. i choose when too lose or engage with my ship. i still wona keep that chose in the game.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.17 20:40:00 -
[73]
Originally by: OffBeaT
honestly you people seem too wont it so you pick the terms when i have too fight not me as a player.
Yeah, but both you and I should really not be able to log off in each other's territory. If we want to have incidents of slightly more predictable conflict, we at least need to be able to go pick a fight. To do that we need to encourage POS construction. Alot. However the fleet logoff tactic means the defender has to have full forces tied up for many many more hours than the assailant. It's not balanced without making the assailant fleet have to sit around for at least 5 minutes or so. I find that a paltry compromise personally especially since they can still log in at 6am then gank or begin taking down a POS and then disappear for a few more hours if some defenders happen to rally. The defenders meanwhile have to stay logged in in full force in one specific area for an indefinite amount of time.
Originally by: Offbeat
no player should be forced into a fight that he cant win.
It's the player's responsibility not to invade territory where he is outmatched without suitable backup. You can't be harmed docked at an npc station, and it gives you an incentive to start planning out the care and feeding of a POS and it's territorial integrity in your own alliance's space.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.17 20:40:00 -
[74]
Originally by: OffBeaT
honestly you people seem too wont it so you pick the terms when i have too fight not me as a player.
Yeah, but both you and I should really not be able to log off in each other's territory. If we want to have incidents of slightly more predictable conflict, we at least need to be able to go pick a fight. To do that we need to encourage POS construction. Alot. However the fleet logoff tactic means the defender has to have full forces tied up for many many more hours than the assailant. It's not balanced without making the assailant fleet have to sit around for at least 5 minutes or so. I find that a paltry compromise personally especially since they can still log in at 6am then gank or begin taking down a POS and then disappear for a few more hours if some defenders happen to rally. The defenders meanwhile have to stay logged in in full force in one specific area for an indefinite amount of time.
Originally by: Offbeat
no player should be forced into a fight that he cant win.
It's the player's responsibility not to invade territory where he is outmatched without suitable backup. You can't be harmed docked at an npc station, and it gives you an incentive to start planning out the care and feeding of a POS and it's territorial integrity in your own alliance's space.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.17 20:45:00 -
[75]
The knowledge that modules will be deactivated and that most SS will simply be Spots will result in fleet commanders having to consider tactical withdrawals when overmatched rather than simply logging off until later.
This will allow conflicts to pursue decisive ends. Noone unwilling to take this challenge on should think themselves virtuous citizenry of the lawless systems.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.17 20:45:00 -
[76]
The knowledge that modules will be deactivated and that most SS will simply be Spots will result in fleet commanders having to consider tactical withdrawals when overmatched rather than simply logging off until later.
This will allow conflicts to pursue decisive ends. Noone unwilling to take this challenge on should think themselves virtuous citizenry of the lawless systems.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2004.11.17 21:30:00 -
[77]
yea, i see your point and agree. i am more or less thinking of the lone player out there ratting for a living and not wonting any part of these alliance wars or just keeping out of the way of pirates who mostly now work in gangs. i guess i hope there will be enough 00 space out there left open too players like me where i can get around too ek-out a living without being gang banged every day. i still need my ecape form that.
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OffBeaT
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Posted - 2004.11.17 21:30:00 -
[78]
yea, i see your point and agree. i am more or less thinking of the lone player out there ratting for a living and not wonting any part of these alliance wars or just keeping out of the way of pirates who mostly now work in gangs. i guess i hope there will be enough 00 space out there left open too players like me where i can get around too ek-out a living without being gang banged every day. i still need my ecape form that.
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Etoile Chercheur
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Posted - 2004.11.17 22:12:00 -
[79]
i'm hoping the modules being offline when you log back in is a bug. if not, i'd like to suggest a compromise.
let's say one of two things can happen:
1) player logs off (either intentionally or unintentionally) in space, ship warps away from current location. player logs on within 10 minutes, and is warped back to previous location with all modules on. this covers accidental disconnects.
2) player logs off in space, ship warps away from current location. player logs on after 10 minutes is up, and remains stationary, giving them time to flip on all their ship's modules (unless they are found first).  this covers those that must leave the game unexpectedly and don't want to be thrust back into the heat of battle with all their modules offline. it's also justifiable because you shouldn't be able to go out into dangerous territory and just disappear with no cost to you at any time, regardless of the out of game reason for needing to do so.
if you think you might be interrupted and don't have a place of safety to dock in the area, get going someplace where you do have a place of safety. otherwise, you're screwed.
perhaps the requirements and cost for flipping on modules that are offline could be reexamined as well.
Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) | Hadean Drive Yards
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Etoile Chercheur
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Posted - 2004.11.17 22:12:00 -
[80]
i'm hoping the modules being offline when you log back in is a bug. if not, i'd like to suggest a compromise.
let's say one of two things can happen:
1) player logs off (either intentionally or unintentionally) in space, ship warps away from current location. player logs on within 10 minutes, and is warped back to previous location with all modules on. this covers accidental disconnects.
2) player logs off in space, ship warps away from current location. player logs on after 10 minutes is up, and remains stationary, giving them time to flip on all their ship's modules (unless they are found first). this covers those that must leave the game unexpectedly and don't want to be thrust back into the heat of battle with all their modules offline. it's also justifiable because you shouldn't be able to go out into dangerous territory and just disappear with no cost to you at any time, regardless of the out of game reason for needing to do so.
if you think you might be interrupted and don't have a place of safety to dock in the area, get going someplace where you do have a place of safety. otherwise, you're screwed.
perhaps the requirements and cost for flipping on modules that are offline could be reexamined as well.
Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) | Hadean Drive Yards
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Chakka
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Posted - 2004.11.18 09:52:00 -
[81]
I like the idea that logging back on in exodus means that your modules are all offline.. ie, if you suffer a system failure (for whatever reason) so does your ship.
If this to be the case (as I hope it will) Auto warping to safety should remain active, but I would strongly recommend that the "autowarp back to your previous location" feature be switched off permanently. There will no longer be a need for it anyway.
I think that longer timers for dissappearing ships should also be implemented as a counter to the "gank-and-log" pirates who should be discouraged from using such blatent system mehcanics based tactics I feel.
Thanks for all the general support on this, if we keep these positive suggestions going we might actially get a CCP official response soon.
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Chakka
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Posted - 2004.11.18 09:52:00 -
[82]
I like the idea that logging back on in exodus means that your modules are all offline.. ie, if you suffer a system failure (for whatever reason) so does your ship.
If this to be the case (as I hope it will) Auto warping to safety should remain active, but I would strongly recommend that the "autowarp back to your previous location" feature be switched off permanently. There will no longer be a need for it anyway.
I think that longer timers for dissappearing ships should also be implemented as a counter to the "gank-and-log" pirates who should be discouraged from using such blatent system mehcanics based tactics I feel.
Thanks for all the general support on this, if we keep these positive suggestions going we might actially get a CCP official response soon.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.18 12:29:00 -
[83]
looks as though SS aren't going to be significantly nerfed for tactical engagements, only for miners and long term depots for the most part.
Seems that the scanner is only supposed to be some crummy launchable probe tool. So the 5 minutes or so to reactivate one's modules should be no problem for a logged off gank fleet parked next to your alliance's home system or next to the only entrance to the galactic interior within 100 jumps.
Looks to be a new overelaborate feature designed to accomplish not very much at all.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.18 12:29:00 -
[84]
looks as though SS aren't going to be significantly nerfed for tactical engagements, only for miners and long term depots for the most part.
Seems that the scanner is only supposed to be some crummy launchable probe tool. So the 5 minutes or so to reactivate one's modules should be no problem for a logged off gank fleet parked next to your alliance's home system or next to the only entrance to the galactic interior within 100 jumps.
Looks to be a new overelaborate feature designed to accomplish not very much at all.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2004.11.18 13:03:00 -
[85]
I am in favor of longer log out times to counter this.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.11.18 13:03:00 -
[86]
I am in favor of longer log out times to counter this.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Brobro
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Posted - 2004.11.18 14:41:00 -
[87]
my suggestion:
Just make the ship warp to a safespot and make the time your ship stays there long enough for an opposing force to scan your position and kill you. If you ctd you can relog in time and avoid being caught. If your connection breaks then that is bad luck and what insurance is for, it shouldn't happen too often (or you might think about changing ISPs).
I don't like the Shiva solution, where your mods all go ofline for 2 reasons:
1. you ctd while fighting a complex you relog you autowarp back makes that you know you are gonna die without modules. If they have warpscramblers. It happened to me, I could laugh about it because it was just a Shiva beta test but if it was for real I wouldn't be so amused.
2. you are hunting/farming/travelling deep in 0.0 space, and want to log off, you spend the next 30 minutes of your next log on reactivating modules one by one.
Ps. If someone else made the it sorry, but I didn't read everyting.
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Brobro
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Posted - 2004.11.18 14:41:00 -
[88]
my suggestion:
Just make the ship warp to a safespot and make the time your ship stays there long enough for an opposing force to scan your position and kill you. If you ctd you can relog in time and avoid being caught. If your connection breaks then that is bad luck and what insurance is for, it shouldn't happen too often (or you might think about changing ISPs).
I don't like the Shiva solution, where your mods all go ofline for 2 reasons:
1. you ctd while fighting a complex you relog you autowarp back makes that you know you are gonna die without modules. If they have warpscramblers. It happened to me, I could laugh about it because it was just a Shiva beta test but if it was for real I wouldn't be so amused.
2. you are hunting/farming/travelling deep in 0.0 space, and want to log off, you spend the next 30 minutes of your next log on reactivating modules one by one.
Ps. If someone else made the it sorry, but I didn't read everyting.
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.11.18 14:53:00 -
[89]
Solution to log on traps:
1. If you have logged off in space, when you log back on your entry will be displayed in local eg (-> Larno has logged in).
2. The person who has then logged on will have to wait three minutes before they can do anything. During these three minutes their location cannot be found by safespot trackers.
3. The person who is in a safe location can then warp from this location to their destination.
Can anyone see any exploits for this idea? I know it doesnt solve log-offs, but I think it sorts out log-ons pretty good.
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.11.18 14:53:00 -
[90]
Solution to log on traps:
1. If you have logged off in space, when you log back on your entry will be displayed in local eg (-> Larno has logged in).
2. The person who has then logged on will have to wait three minutes before they can do anything. During these three minutes their location cannot be found by safespot trackers.
3. The person who is in a safe location can then warp from this location to their destination.
Can anyone see any exploits for this idea? I know it doesnt solve log-offs, but I think it sorts out log-ons pretty good.
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