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Tech 2 ship insurance

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Impact	Posted - 2009.12.27 11:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Sokratesz ITT: people fail to see that insurance is determined by base price, not market value I believe that should be changed. Oh d3vo, in all your wisdom as god of the eve economy, please grant me a vision about how you would implement that without increasing the insurance isk faucet even more and without creating numerous opportunities for exploits? A HAC is worth about 15 mil ISK in raw materials, and that's what you will get if you insure it. The fact that you paid a hundred for it because of the way supply/demand works, is totally irrelevant. Want cheaper HACs? Do something useful and make a proposal to improve T2 production, invention, moon mining or whatever. You want a suggestion? Well I was part of a 0.0 corp a while. And I know for a fact those people out there arent going broke over costs to build and POS fuels. The profit they made form Moon Mineral sales in Empire, and the for some corps the massive tax they impose more then lines there pockets. Actually I know a corp in Tribute where there CEO had so much isk he went out and built him self a personal OutPost. Thats right he went out on his birthday and decided "Hey, my own outpost would be nice lets toss out the 50 bill for one with all the bells and whistles" I think there costs are low enough. Each POS only after the inital investment is only costing them what? like 100 mill a month in Fuels? Oh How are those poor souls making it out there. When they sell there moon minerals collected for that month for billions. As much as this hurts me to say this... And trust me it dose. When BoB was around atleast the moon minerals were cheap. 70 mil hacs, 500 mill marauders. So heres my Suggestion now that I ranted. Allow those moon minerals to be in Empire moons. Not only can I garentee you the prices will drop. There will be a mass increase in Empire wars. And also put those what? Say 8 allainces that own 90% of of 0.0 and that are all allies at this time in check.
Jophiel Gabriel	Posted - 2009.12.27 11:58:00 - [32] Well I am new to the game. And I would hate to lose an uninsured ship. I just got my dominix I dont think I could replace it if lost. But fair is fair. I think all ships should be able to be insured, or not insured. Its that fine line of you can aford to buy it, can you aford to lose it? But in the end I know my ship is covered. I and I beleive all people and ships should have the opertunity to insure there ships. We all have to work hard to get into them. ^_^
Triel Baenre	Posted - 2009.12.27 12:00:00 - [33] I am for removing insurance all together. And/Or null an void insurance if concord kills you. Its kind of biast to give it to one and not the other. Honestly yes it helps newer players who race into that BS with out getting the support skills and then get them selves blown up for there stupidity. But in the end its unfair for the T2 pilots to be out massive costs due to the lack of insurance. And with Empire ganking on the rise, the insurance is much needed. I was watching yesterday I think the Injurnen system ended off at 50 some odd ganks of mission ships. And well no one can forget the roaming gank that killed hulks that went on for about a month. So I say either offer insurance to everyone, or as some pointed out. Get ride of it all together. Let the new players fend for them selves. Older players may have a nice pocket of isk to sit on. But that dosent mean any of us deserve to lose our money any more then the newer players. One thing I am noticing though is a hate towards older players. Honestly thats like hating some one who got in on a market before you did. Its a weird kind of jelious nature to hate some one cause they have been in the game and successful. I have been in empire since I started in 2004, I dont hate 0.0 corps cause they have opertunities to be rich I made my choice of where I want to be. As for Impact his/her 1 billion isk ship got ganked by I dunno lets say 450 mil isk in battle ships since he, or she said it was 7 of them. Which I am almost garenteeing were insured. Which means those players took almost no loss's. They were probally typical gank boats with all t1 parts. So who is it fair to? The player losing 100% of his/her invested isk? Or the suicide gankers sitting in a system going threw 5 - 10 insured ships that concord kills off, and there neutral alts race in and loot there wrecks to minamize costs? And good luck Jopheil on your new Dominix. Its a fantastic mission ship
Litel Gril Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.27 12:49:00 - [34] tech 2 ships insurance = NO! carebears go play other games ccp should remove insurance from all ships anyway!
Impact	Posted - 2009.12.27 20:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Litel Gril tech 2 ships insurance = NO! carebears go play other games ccp should remove insurance from all ships anyway! You know how stupid your comment is? Lets lay this out. With out carebears no one would be building the ships, no one would be mineing the minerals. So the combat pilots require carebears more, then they do us. You would be running around in an ibis cursing cause there wasnt anything bigger to use. Not to mention the mission runner corperations are the ones with the high sec POS's that reduce builders costs, to bring down ship costs with ME reseach. Which for anyone who is in empire knows ME research is usually a 20-50 day Q. I should have as much right to insure my tech 2 ships as any person who can only fly tech 1 in the game. And yeh I say CCP should remove the insurance, or void it if concord tags ya. Or equal rights. Give me insurance on my tech 2 ship. And Lastly LOL who are you to think you have the right to call some one a care bear? Since your posting with that character which hasnt even made 1 single kill. And I dont care if thats an alt, thats the one your choose to post with. Start screaming care bear when you break youe cherry. Or Go back to Warcraft.
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.27 20:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Crewman Jenkins Just get rid of insurance THIS PLS Fly what you can afford right ? So let's treat everyone equal shall we?
d3vo The Missionaries	Posted - 2009.12.27 20:57:00 - [37] Edited by: d3vo on 27/12/2009 20:58:52 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Sokratesz ITT: people fail to see that insurance is determined by base price, not market value I believe that should be changed. Oh d3vo, in all your wisdom as god of the eve economy, please grant me a vision about how you would implement that without increasing the insurance isk faucet even more and without creating numerous opportunities for exploits? A HAC is worth about 15 mil ISK in raw materials, and that's what you will get if you insure it. The fact that you paid a hundred for it because of the way supply/demand works, is totally irrelevant. Want cheaper HACs? Do something useful and make a proposal to improve T2 production, invention, moon mining or whatever. I'm sorry...but wth are you manners. I basically said that it should be changed to match the market value. I know there are potential exploits...which is why I didn't say any specifics. But it is obvious that the current insurance payout of T2 ships is VERY low compared price of the T2 ships. You aren't paying insurance on the raw materials, your paying insurance on the ship! Also, I am not asking for cheaper HACs, I am asking that the T2 insurance payout be more reasonably priced relative to the market value. To answer the ISK faucet problem, insurance should NEVER bring a net gain, but either 0 gain or a loss. Therefore, there shouldn't be an ISK faucet problem. Originally by: Valandril Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Sokratesz ITT: people fail to see that insurance is determined by base price, not market value I believe that should be changed. Originally by: All iskies Just remove in game insurance altogether and after 3 months of market settling everyone will be happy. How so? Demand will go down because people may not have the isk to replace the ships that are lost. Wrong, currently price for ships is "so high" because insurance is artificaly boostin it. Without insurance battleships may cost as low as 5-10m So after that the production price will go down because the mineral prices drop? I fear it would take a very long time for that to happen. During that time, PVP activity will drop drastically because people will lose isk at the expense of PVP or being ganked. __________ \(^.^)/
Pan Dora Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.12.27 21:15:00 - [38] Impact, the insurance payout its defined by the base price of materials, that is nothing else than a hard-coded 'intended value' no one but pend insurance company cares about. All your explanation about greed CEOs in 0.0 only show why market prices of moon mineral are so different than base price. And if moon mineral its so high because the greed of 0.0 CEOs/corps its a reason to not boost tech 2 insurance. A boost for 0.0 ISK printers its not needed or desirable. _ I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game.
Callista Sincera Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.27 21:45:00 - [39] Edited by: Callista Sincera on 27/12/2009 21:46:07 Originally by: Ogogov The fact still remains that just because someone recently made a decision to try the game out shouldn't mean they're automatically at a huge disadvantage. Can I have your stuff? I mean the stuff you seem to be smokin... How did you get from "t2 insurance" to "mah mah, me want ma free ship, mah mah" ? In fact, not having an insurance for t2 hulls means those will stay limited to wealthier player. The training time for a marauder isn't the problem. Neither is the first billion if you really want that thing. Losing it is the problem. Insurance would alleviate this and make it easier for new people like you to actually fly one and not just station-spin it. Besides, no other MMO gives new players chances half as big as in EVE. Sure, we all know the learning curve for EVE, but you really can't say that new players don't stand a chance. Specialization is the keyword. That's not to say that I'm for T2 insurance though. Just pointing out that your attempt at logic really went the wrong way. -
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.27 21:49:00 - [40] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 27/12/2009 21:49:39 Quote: In fact, not having an insurance for t2 hulls means those will stay limited to wealthier player. The training time for a marauder isn't the problem. Neither is the first billion if you really want that thing. Losing it is the problem. Insurance would alleviate this and make it easier for new people like you to actually fly one and not just station-spin it. T2 insurance would obsolete t1 ships. Why fly a Stabber when I can fully insure a Vagabond? Why should I fly a Merlin when I can fully insure a Harpy?

Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.12.27 22:12:00 - [41] Edited by: Robert Caldera on 27/12/2009 22:12:08 Originally by: Impact Hey I would like to see tech 2 ships get the proper insurance. All tech 1 ships can get insured. But when I wand to insure my Golem, or Broadsword I am only getting the tech 1 verson of the pay out. And lets face it you can do it the same as the tech 1 by a percentile of the cost of the ship. And also I think it would atleast help cover some loss to the parts. All tech 2 ships are on the market. So I dont see why they arent insurable at there own rates. ^_^ insurance should be removed entirely. People should pay for their stuff.
Litel Gril Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.27 23:28:00 - [42] impact... you're a carebear
Valandril Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.12.27 23:29:00 - [43] Originally by: d3vo Edited by: d3vo on 27/12/2009 21:38:34 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Sokratesz ITT: people fail to see that insurance is determined by base price, not market value I believe that should be changed. Oh d3vo, in all your wisdom as god of the eve economy, please grant me a vision about how you would implement that without increasing the insurance isk faucet even more and without creating numerous opportunities for exploits? A HAC is worth about 15 mil ISK in raw materials, and that's what you will get if you insure it. The fact that you paid a hundred for it because of the way supply/demand works, is totally irrelevant. Want cheaper HACs? Do something useful and make a proposal to improve T2 production, invention, moon mining or whatever. I'm sorry...but wth are you manners. I basically said that it should be changed to match the market value. I know there are potential exploits...which is why I didn't say any specifics. But it is obvious that the current insurance payout of T2 ships is VERY low compared price of the T2 ships. You aren't paying insurance on the raw materials, your paying insurance on the ship! Also, I am not asking for cheaper HACs, I am asking that the T2 insurance payout be more reasonably priced relative to the market value. Originally by: Valandril Originally by: d3vo Originally by: Sokratesz ITT: people fail to see that insurance is determined by base price, not market value I believe that should be changed. Originally by: All iskies Just remove in game insurance altogether and after 3 months of market settling everyone will be happy. How so? Demand will go down because people may not have the isk to replace the ships that are lost. Wrong, currently price for ships is "so high" because insurance is artificaly boostin it. Without insurance battleships may cost as low as 5-10m So after that the production price will go down because the mineral prices drop? I fear it would take a very long time for that to happen. During that time, PVP activity will drop drastically because people will lose isk at the expense of PVP or being ganked. It was talked multiple times in MD and this "settling" period would take about 3 months. And the pvp problem is only reason why this should not be implemented.
d3vo The Missionaries	Posted - 2009.12.28 00:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Valandril Without insurance battleships may cost as low as 5-10m If prices would drop that much, that means everything else would downsize in price to keep the ratio the same. I.e. mission profits, exploration, trading, mining, etc? Amirite? __________ \(^.^)/


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