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Psidal	Posted - 2009.12.28 08:14:00 - [1] Highsec ganks are getting out of control, you can't even manually pilot a tanked T1 hauler anymore without fear of a 1.0 security gate gank. There should be harsher penalties for this sort of criminal behavior, i.e. exponential sec status loss for unprovoked attacks in higher security space. For instance, if would be criminals initiate an unprovoked attack(someone didn't steal from them, or shoot them first) and destroy a ship in a 1.0 security system they would lose 1.0 from their sec status down to only losing whatever is the current by destroying someone in a 0.5. This only makes sense according to game mythos as well, considering the "Higher security areas" would have stricter rules and regulations regarding all aspects of space travel and combat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this would still allow the asshats to be asshats and provide peace of mind for carebears and veterans alike.
iciingdeath	Posted - 2009.12.28 08:28:00 - [2] no
Justin Vint	Posted - 2009.12.28 08:48:00 - [3] welcome to eve online don't cry about campers in high sec... if u dont like it then quit live with it or don't ccp will not do anything to help you about this.... it's part of the game.
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2009.12.28 10:17:00 - [4] Tank your hauler. don't haul small expensive items in a t1 industrial ship.. Easy
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.12.28 10:56:00 - [5] You can spoil their pathetic non-roleplay fun by swearing and screaming in character, thus thwarting their OOC efforts. ~
Millie Clode Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2009.12.28 11:11:00 - [6] yeah CCP should make it so you can't lock another player in highsec or something
TITANONGRID	Posted - 2009.12.28 11:21:00 - [7] moron flying a hauler afk alert
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.12.28 12:54:00 - [8] Sorry to spoil it for you OP, but the increased security status drop in higher security areas has been implemented well before dominion.
Hamano Walker	Posted - 2009.12.28 12:59:00 - [9] OP, see last line of sig file for possible workaround. . . --- How to deal with issues in EVE: Fight it, avoid it, run from it, buy it off, cry about it or learn from it.
Loqiel Caldari Legio Fortunae	Posted - 2009.12.28 15:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Psidal Preeze maek EVE ezer! It iz two hard! I luv Tenderhart teh best! I love this. Let's just make everything easy and safe and no-risk. While we're at it let's take missiles and guns and armaments out of the game and just have a hug-in. We can all wear pink and purple and sing Kumbaya and hold hands around campfires and make s'mores and pretend it's the 1960s again. Or not.

Wayward Daughter Swords of the Righteous	Posted - 2009.12.28 15:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Loqiel Originally by: Psidal Preeze maek EVE ezer! It iz two hard! I luv Tenderhart teh best! I love this. Let's just make everything easy and safe and no-risk. While we're at it let's take missiles and guns and armaments out of the game and just have a hug-in. We can all wear pink and purple and sing Kumbaya and hold hands around campfires and make s'mores and pretend it's the 1960s again. Or not. No free love for you.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.28 15:47:00 - [12] Boring troll is boring. Srsly. This whine has been aired too much recently. Plz bring back the scanner nerf whine. It's aged enough, do want to sip at it moar.
Pistrik Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.12.28 15:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Loqiel Originally by: Psidal Preeze maek EVE ezer! It iz two hard! I luv Tenderhart teh best! I love this. Let's just make everything easy and safe and no-risk. While we're at it let's take missiles and guns and armaments out of the game and just have a hug-in. We can all wear pink and purple and sing Kumbaya and hold hands around campfires and make s'mores and pretend it's the 1960s again. Or not. I want s'mores .
Onimar Synn Red Federation	Posted - 2009.12.28 16:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Pistrik Originally by: Loqiel Originally by: Psidal Preeze maek EVE ezer! It iz two hard! I luv Tenderhart teh best! I love this. Let's just make everything easy and safe and no-risk. While we're at it let's take missiles and guns and armaments out of the game and just have a hug-in. We can all wear pink and purple and sing Kumbaya and hold hands around campfires and make s'mores and pretend it's the 1960s again. Or not. I want s'mores . That or some nice stinky cheese, plz! Originally by: Boomershoot Sorry to spoil it for you OP, but the increased security status drop in higher security areas has been implemented well before dominion. Now to feed the troll (inside all of us) ......CCP implemented sliding scale sec hit last year. Sec loss is now based on system sec lvl you're in and the difference between piwate sec status and your pwnyarsebucket. vOv
Eseay	Posted - 2009.12.28 16:33:00 - [15] simple solution --> stop living in high sec
Discrodia Gallente Experimental Horizons	Posted - 2009.12.28 16:42:00 - [16] Burn in hell. If you weren't moving expensive stuff in a hauler, no one would attack you. I usually carry my expensive stuff in a buffer-tanked HAC or BC (At least 100k EHP). It's a novel idea, might wanna try it out. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Locked, thread is filled with trolling.
Benedict Carol	Posted - 2009.12.28 16:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Discrodia Burn in hell. If you weren't moving expensive stuff in a hauler, no one would attack you. I usually carry my expensive stuff in a buffer-tanked HAC or BC (At least 100k EHP). It's a novel idea, might wanna try it out. Honestly, I'm surprised the salvaging corps haven't latched onto this sort of thing - why there aren't more pilots out there flipping wreck loot and then hauling it away (and/or blowing the hauler alts to hell) is beyond me. It's not like the systems picked for this crap aren't well-known :)
War Kitten	Posted - 2009.12.28 17:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Psidal <whine>... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this would still allow the asshats to be asshats and provide peace of mind for carebears and veterans alike. You're wrong. CCP boosted the sec status hit based on security status of the ganker and the gankee. They also boosted the hit based on system security level. They even adjusted TTC (Time-To-Concordokken) based on system security level. And the asshats are still asshats, but the carebears have no peace of mind. The veterans already know what they're doing and were unaffected. "Here's your sign." - Bill Engvall
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.12.28 17:25:00 - [19] Carebears should never have peace of mind. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Misanth Reaper Industries	Posted - 2009.12.28 17:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Lady Spank You can spoil their pathetic non-roleplay fun by swearing and screaming in character, thus thwarting their OOC efforts. I expected alot more replies of this kind. Left thread disappointed. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.

Schwa88 Kiss My Assets Kiss My Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.28 18:41:00 - [21] Poasting in a troll thread!
Samuel Wess	Posted - 2009.12.28 18:46:00 - [22] Ganking is OK, insurance pay for geting concorded is NOT. I can gank a t2 ship with a t1 insured, get all my isk back, collect modules and profit from salvaging the wrecks. If you mission a lot you can do this every week and have fun. me
Mitsune Konno	Posted - 2009.12.28 18:53:00 - [23] Originally by: FunzzeR Carebears should never have peace of mind. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLDS!
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2009.12.28 19:07:00 - [24] HTFU
Kagan Storm Caldari Ghost Armadillo Legion	Posted - 2009.12.28 19:34:00 - [25] why couldent the person in the 1st replay just write: Transport ship that can warp cloaked + t2 cloak = I win button. Would save us all this garble...
Mitsune Konno	Posted - 2009.12.28 19:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Kagan Storm why couldent the person in the 1st replay just write: Transport ship that can warp cloaked + t2 cloak = I win button. Would save us all this garble... u forgot the +afk ap.
Shmeria	Posted - 2009.12.28 19:57:00 - [27] Quote: Ganking is OK, insurance pay for geting concorded is NOT. This - it lowers the opportunity cost of ganking to nothing. You .... you could have concord fire on theives if they happened to be in the area....
Dire Radiant	Posted - 2009.12.28 20:06:00 - [28] simple solution, only allow pods in high sec.
Vigo Larcen Dark Claw Raiders	Posted - 2009.12.28 20:10:00 - [29] Originally by: Dire Radiant simple solution, only allow pods in high sec. Give me a full rack of 800s on my pod and you've got yourself a deal, mister!
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2009.12.28 20:11:00 - [30] if you are SOOOOOOOO worried about getting your high value stuff ganked, why not use a frighter for big stuff, t2 for medium stuff, and a Rohk with expanded cargo and a passive buffer tank for the really expensive stuff(BPOs and stuff). Honestly its not that hard to not get suicide ganked. -------------

KaiserSoze434	Posted - 2009.12.28 21:42:00 - [31] To be a carebear is to choose a life of pain, paranoia, and fear. HTFU. Quick question. Why aren't you guys highsec ganking known perps and any ship you see scanning on a gate? If you're completely carved out of cookie dough why not rent some balls from a merc corp?
Cynosural Sari	Posted - 2010.01.22 13:36:00 - [32] Yeah, for real. CCP needs to do more to protect player's hard earned hisec ISK. Its already boring as hell - why should it be dangerous as well. Miners spending all day mining for 50M ISK, lose 200M - and the ganker doesn't loe anything? only get get blown up for free? Its an outrage!?!?
Grunanca Final Agony	Posted - 2010.01.22 14:02:00 - [33] Edited by: Grunanca on 22/01/2010 14:02:53 Originally by: Cynosural Sari Yeah, for real. CCP needs to do more to protect player's hard earned hisec ISK. Its already boring as hell - and its easy to enslave me, so I still do it. Miners spending 2 minutes setting up a macro mining 50M ISK per day, lose 200M because he is not aligned nor watching scanner because he is afk - and the ganker doesnt make more than a few mil isk for his valuable time spend at the keyboard. Its an outrage!?!? Corrected the parts you didnt have a clue about. I totally agree. Equipment for mining ships should be expensive just like a full rack of large t2 guns cost 10-12 mil. This would enable suicide gankers to actually make about 50 million in a day like the miners do afk. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Winterjack	Posted - 2010.01.22 14:11:00 - [34] U mad? Apply randomly to ppl in this thread.
Cynosural Sari	Posted - 2010.01.22 14:55:00 - [35] If I lose a 200M Hulk in hi-sec, the gankers should have to lose at least that much. Taking away insurrance from gankers would make it more fair for everybody.
Winterjack	Posted - 2010.01.22 15:02:00 - [36] Originally by: Cynosural Sari If I lose a 200M Hulk in hi-sec, the gankers should have to lose at least that much. Taking away insurrance from gankers would make it more fair for everybody. If you don't know the difference between "risk" and "cost" you can't possibly be someone worth discussing this issue with. /fail.
Cynosural Sari	Posted - 2010.01.22 17:06:00 - [37] All the Risk and Cost are on the miners side. Suicide bombing idiots have none of either. They run around blowing people up in free ships, get all the laughs and cause nothing but pain for the miners. The game needs more pain for the gankers, so when a 200M hulk is destroyed, the gankers also lose 200M. (if not more - for punitive damages...) Otherwise the punishment for thrill killing will not sufficienty discourage it.
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2010.01.22 17:11:00 - [38] This sort of thing....in real life.....ruining the game......poor newbies leaving in droves...less money for ccp.....cancelled my accounts...griefers... /shakes fist
Pater Peccavi Minmatar The Bastards	Posted - 2010.01.22 18:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Schwa88 Poasting in a troll thread! Not poasting in a droll thread! _________
Muffdiver2010	Posted - 2010.01.22 18:33:00 - [40] Roll on more Ganks... hurrah!!

Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.23 10:05:00 - [41] Edited by: Kerfira on 23/01/2010 10:05:51 Originally by: Cynosural Sari All the Risk and Cost are on the miners side. Suicide bombing idiots have none of either. They run around blowing people up in free ships, get all the laughs and cause nothing but pain for the miners. As has been demonstrated clearly in the other 3926745 whine threads about this subject, it only takes a few very basic precautions for miners to be almost 100% safe. Yet you still claim you should be able to park your big fat expensive paper-thin Hulk beside the big "Gank Me!" sign in a 'roid belt in a busy system, start your lasers and go afk while the ISK rolls in without effort from your side. Also if you think there's no cost to suicide ganking just because your excessive mining has dropped mineral prices to the level where ships are close to free, you're clearly not taking into account that ganking other takes a lot of time for preparation, waiting for agro flags, and most timeconsuming grinding back sec.status. if you did 3 or more of the following, you'd be almost 100% safe: - Align - Mine in a non-busy system - Mine in a gravimetric exploration site - Mine in a mission site - Don't draw attention to yourself - Don't mine at the warp-in where there is a big ball of ships - Fit a tank - etc. etc. Besides, getting laughs and causing pain is the BASIS of EVE gameplay... You should also, always, remember this. It provides insight into what EVE is: Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world. You do like so many other whiners try desparately to cast the blame on others, but you've completely forgotten what is probably the first rule of EVE: "YOU, YOU alone and only YOU, is responsible for your safety! Not CCP, not the other players, only YOU! If you die, it's because you did something stupid!" EVE's darwinian world works like it does to teach you not to do stupid things twice! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Sator deHarak Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2010.01.23 13:30:00 - [42] I agree, as a ganker this is getting out of control. Let's just switch this around: fro Now when you haul anything but pyrite or trit, you send me 10% of your cargo's value and I'll protect you. By the by, why do you think gankers are able to haul their loot without getting ganked? Most proficient gankers typically have no problems, maybe offer a few hundred mil to one and learn instead of ****ing and moaning.
Anosh	Posted - 2010.01.23 14:05:00 - [43] Originally by: Lithalnas if you are SOOOOOOOO worried about getting your high value stuff ganked, why not use a frighter for big stuff, t2 for medium stuff, and a Rohk with expanded cargo and a passive buffer tank for the really expensive stuff(BPOs and stuff). Honestly its not that hard to not get suicide ganked. wtb large slow ship with big scary face on the front
Ydra Ko'Zyn	Posted - 2010.01.24 00:36:00 - [44] It is getting a bit out of control, but instead of stopping it they should just increase the time it takes to scan out someones cargo. Ganking is fine, it's just being able to quickly look into someones cargo hold and see if the loot's worth while. Increase the cargo scan time.
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.01.24 00:40:00 - [45] Originally by: Ydra Ko'Zyn It is getting a bit out of control, but instead of stopping it they should just increase the time it takes to scan out someones cargo. Ganking is fine, it's just being able to quickly look into someones cargo hold and see if the loot's worth while. Increase the cargo scan time. Or just fill your cargo with 500 bookmarks as well (keep them in cargo at all times). This will take them a few seconds to process, and will increase your chance of survival.
Tason Hyena Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.24 00:53:00 - [46] Originally by: Sator deHarak I agree, as a ganker this is getting out of control. Let's just switch this around: fro Now when you haul anything but pyrite or trit, you send me 10% of your cargo's value and I'll protect you. By the by, why do you think gankers are able to haul their loot without getting ganked? Most proficient gankers typically have no problems, maybe offer a few hundred mil to one and learn instead of ****ing and moaning. I actually wonder why pirates don't do that, take a cut in order to guarantee safe passage. It wont work for suicide ganking, but I'd think you see more lowsec traffic if people could choose to pay a toll to pirates to keep their ship when passing through piracy areas.
speedybot	Posted - 2010.01.24 06:14:00 - [47] Yeah, it is clearly getting out of control. Some suicide ganking is reasonable. If you're transporting something really valuable, say over $1b worth of cargo, you should have to plan it out and be careful even in hi sec. But it's getting to the point where they are pretty much just blowing up any industrial they see that isn't empty... I had suicide gankers blow one up the other day that only had around $100m worth of stuff in it... That's just lame. If you need to make extravagent plans to haul even mundane everyday loads of junk even in hi sec, that means hi sec is not serving its intended role. The bar needs to be raised so that it's only worthwhile for them to gank expensive loads. All this 'well you should have been flying such and such a ship' makes good sense for somebody who was transporting BPOs or something. It's ridiculous to have to go to those lengths just to move around nocxium or t1 modules or whatever... People who enjoy blobbing and ganking non combat ships can already do that in like 90% of the systems... Do we really need 100% of the systems to be bloberific? I like the idea of insurance not paying out if your ship is destroyed by concorde. That would help some, but not really all that much. They would still just gank anything worth more than the cost of whatever the cheapest ship they could use to gank with costs, which ain't much. Another facet of the problem is that they're basically just exploiting a loophole that they can just keep creating alts and using them to suicide gank until their security status gets too low, then delete them and repeat. That's essentially just an exploit. They're circumventing the intended goal of the security status system. Some sort of tweaking the way security status works might be needed... Maybe if you drop below -1 in the first month of an alt's life concorde treats it as a criminal or something? Or maybe security status even needs to be shared across charcters or something? Although the later seems kind of extreme... I don't know how exactly, but IMO that exploit ought be plugged somehow. If you want to pirate in hi sec you're supposed to have to spend time farming your security status back up to something reasonable, but these guys aren't having to do that.
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.24 10:38:00 - [48] The gankers will never ever agree with you mate, no point banging your head on the wall.. It's their fun to do this an they see it as their right to have no risk for a reward.Be it giggles or salvaging your stuff. It's same in every mmo, just ignore it. Remember the forum population is bout 10% of the overall gaming population. These lads area very minor part of the game. They don't like thinking that one day their will be a cost to their ganking. At moment they actually think a sec loss is enough risk to what they do. As long as you lose as much as possible its all they care about.
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.24 10:52:00 - [49] Edited by: Kerfira on 24/01/2010 10:52:38 Originally by: speedybot Long whine... As there are plenty of solutions to NOT getting ganked, why don't you just employ them? CCP has already implemented them.... - Don't fly AFK - Pay attention - Don't stuff 25m+ of stuff in a paper-thin hauler - Don't fly AFK - Use a scout (gank-teams are pretty easy to spot) - Learn the cloak-MWD trick - Don't fly AFK - Create undock bookmarks - Use the map - Don't fly AFK Your security is YOUR responsibility. All CONCORD provides is punishment, nothing else. Other than that, it is up to you! If you get ganked, its because YOU did something stupid! EVE isn't, and shouldn't be, a forgiving game. You pay for your mistakes, and it is hoped you learn and doesn't do them again.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
speedybot	Posted - 2010.01.24 17:09:00 - [50] Nobody in eve whines more than the blobbers and gankers... Anything that would introduce the slightest challenge or risk or require the least amount of skill in blobbing or ganking puts them up in arms! Blobbing and ganking are already the easiest career path there is in eve, and now they're leveraging exploits to make it even easier... Come on... Originally by: Kerfira - Don't stuff 25m+ of stuff in a paper-thin hauler See that's where I feel the problem lies. 25m is a ridiculously low bar... That basically means you can't transport anything at all in an industrial. The MWD cloak tactic, warp points and all that help a bit, but not really much in an industrial. The conventional wisdom in a lot of guides and posts is "don't haul anything worth more than 1 billion in an industrial. Now it's down to 25m.. In fact, there are even stories floating around about people being ganked for less than 25m, although it's rare you'd haul anything worth less than that except maybe miners hauling veldspar to be refined... Originally by: Kerfira All CONCORD provides is punishment, nothing else. That's the problem. The gankers are leveraging exploits to avoid punishment. Insurance is covering the cost of the ships they're losing, and since they aren't having to fight any combat targets equipping the ship is nearly free, and biomassing characters is covering the security status hit. I don't want ganking to become impossible, but I would like to see the punishment mechanism functioning properly so that (like everything else in eve) being a successful and profitable ganker requires skill, risk, and costs.

Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.24 17:20:00 - [51] Edited by: Kerfira on 24/01/2010 17:22:45 Originally by: speedybot More whine (but shorter this time) Adapt! And stop your AFK'ing.... I have, and I have never been ganked, nor do I know anyone who's ever been ganked if they paid attention. I frequently fly T1 haulers around high-sec, have done so for years on 4 accounts, and the above precautions have prevented me from ever getting ganked. Saturday I flew 600m worth of datacores into Jita in a speed-rigged Badger II (used one of the less-used entrances of.c., and used a warp-in point to the station), having jumped around 80 jumps to pick them up. According to you that's a sure way to get suicide ganked! Yet, I've done it frequently (about once every 2 months).... Should I die, I'll not cry on the forums about it either! When EVE already provides the means to be almost perfectly safe, it in no way should be made safer! I think the truth is, that you just want to be able to AFK haul, isn't it? Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Danks Caldari Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds	Posted - 2010.01.24 17:28:00 - [52] IIRC, recycling alts for suicide ganks is considered an exploit and can be petitioned.
Alberra	Posted - 2010.01.24 17:31:00 - [53] Originally by: Kerfira - Learn the cloak-MWD trick - Create undock bookmarks Care to elaborate on these for a newb ?
Discrodia Gallente Green Peace Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.24 17:39:00 - [54] Edited by: Discrodia on 24/01/2010 17:40:18 If anything, piracy needs a major buff. Like getting LP for a respective pirate faction whenever you kill someone without aggro in hisec. And sec status doesn't mean crap. Edit: And these beartears can power my house for months! Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Locked, thread is filled with trolling.
speedybot	Posted - 2010.01.24 17:43:00 - [55] Originally by: Kerfira stop your AFK'ing.... I don't think AFKing has much to do with it. If somebody is AFKing, hey, fine by me if the mechanics allow them to be ganked easily. Originally by: Kerfira Saturday I flew 600m worth of datacores into Jita in a speed-rigged Badger II (used one of the less-used entrances of.c., and used a warp-in point to the station), having jumped around 80 jumps to pick them up. According to you that's a sure way to get suicide ganked! Yet, I've done it frequently (about once every 2 months).... Should I die, I'll not cry on the forums about it either! LOL. Once every 2 months is not 'frequently'... I would describe that more as "I practically never have to haul anything of value to Jita". Since you apparently want to make it personal, here is my story. I live in a wormhole so I have to haul about that same $600m worth of loot to Jita every couple days. I do that in an agility equipped and rigged cloak transport and consistently manage to get through the ganking. But, to keep a wormhole operation running you need to haul a huge volume of low value stuff back to the wormhole every couple of days. Used to be that I just had to use the far smaller transport to haul the loot to Jita and the most expensive stuff out, then I could use an industrial to haul the huge loads of fuel and whatnot back out. That doesn't work anymore. Now gankers gank ANYTHING that comes through in an industrial. Basically I have two choices. Either I can haul everything in the transport no matter how inexpensive, which means spending a huge portion of my time on EVE hauling (bleh), or I can scrounge around smaller markets which generally means making multiple stops and wasting more time... (IE you could very well get to Hek only to find that 2 of the types of fuel you need aren't there for any remotely reasonable prices) IMO the mechanic works best when hi sec ganking is only profitable for expensive loads, not everyday loads.
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.24 17:53:00 - [56] Originally by: speedybot LOL. Once every 2 months is not 'frequently'... I would describe that more as "I practically never have to haul anything of value to Jita". The '2 months' were only my datacore collection runs, not everything else Also, for your 'haul stuff out of Jita' whine.... if you have an undock bookmark, and use one of the less used gates, you'll not get ganked 99% of the time unless you screw up.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
speedybot	Posted - 2010.01.24 17:57:00 - [57] Originally by: Discrodia Like getting LP for a respective pirate faction whenever you kill someone without aggro in hisec. Hmm that's a pretty cool idea actually, although I'd make it lowsec instead of hisec.
speedybot	Posted - 2010.01.24 18:15:00 - [58] Edited by: speedybot on 24/01/2010 18:16:38 Originally by: Kerfira if you have an undock bookmark, and use one of the less used gates, you'll not get ganked 99% of the time unless you screw up.... See the thing is that suddenly isn't true anymore. Things changed, radically, over the past month or so. Now all of a sudden during peak times not only is every gate in Jita camped heavily, but just about every time you go in or out of Jita you need to go through TWO heavily camped gates that are camped on both sides. At each one of those gates there are multiple people trying to lock me every single time now even if I'm just carrying POS fuel. A month ago I would have agreed with everything you're saying, but it has changed dramatically over the past month. If you flew a badger with 600m worth of stuff into Jita, rigged and equipped for cargo capacity, not agility, on saturday, you just got lucky. That would not have been a smart thing to do even a month ago, but now it's pure suicide. Honestly, I think you're misjudging who I am. I'm not flying AFK, ever. I'm typically fully aware of the gate camp I'm about to try to fly through. I don't use the MWD-cloak trick because in order to fit an MWD on an industrial you need to sacrifice all your cargo capacity, in which case you're just better off using a transport. I do make it through gank camps even in a cargo fitted industrial more often than not, but if you need to go through 10 of them a day, you'll get popped a couple times each day doing that no matter how clever you are about it. The problem isn't that it's too hard to get small loads of expensive stuff through. That's still easy. The problem is that getting large loads of cheap stuff through safely now requires many trips, which just plain makes eve less fun.
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.24 20:39:00 - [59] Originally by: speedybot Now all of a sudden during peak times not only is every gate in Jita camped heavily, but just about every time you go in or out of Jita you need to go through TWO heavily camped gates that are camped on both sides. Sometimes three. At each one of those gates there are multiple people trying to lock me every single time now even if I'm just carrying POS fuel. Marked one of your mistakes in red.... The other is most likely going through the Perimeter gate (use one of the bypasses). a couple of the other gates are normally pretty clear, especially outside peak. Alternately, put up a buy contract well in advance in one of the surrounding systems for your POS fuel, and fetch it from there. You may have to pay a premium, but it'll probably get filled and others will run the risk for you. Otherwise, put up courier contracts for people to take the risk for you... The point is, there are plenty of ways the game offers to reduce the risk practically to zero if you put a bit of effort into it... You seem to want the easiest possible solution WITHOUT risk... That is not how EVE is! Originally by: speedybot If you flew a badger with 600m worth of stuff into Jita, rigged and equipped for cargo capacity, not agility, on saturday, you just got lucky. That would not have been a smart thing to do even a month ago, but now it's pure suicide. I said speed-fitted, but should have set agility-fitted... My bad... I also did not use the Perimeter gate (which one has to be stupid to do during peak hours)... Originally by: speedybot Honestly, I think you're misjudging who I am. I'm not flying AFK, ever. I'm typically fully aware of the gate camp I'm about to try to fly through. I don't use the MWD-cloak trick because in order to fit an MWD on an industrial you need to sacrifice all your cargo capacity, in which case you're just better off using a transport. I do make it through gank camps even in a cargo fitted industrial more often than not, but if you need to go through 10 of them a day, you'll get popped a couple times each day doing that no matter how clever you are about it. As I said, you seem to want the easiest possible solution WIHTOUT risk.... Yes, to reduce risk you'll need to sacrifice cargo capacity (even if not using the MWD trick). It is a classic example of EVE's risk/reward philosophy! This is why I have no sympathy for your arguments. You simply don't want to use the options EVE gives you to reduce the risk to almost zero because it requires EFFORT on your behalf. That is why people call you a whiner, tells you to go back to WoW, or 'Hello kitty is --> way'.... EVE is about adapting... Those not able to do so will inevitably either be eternal unhappy whiners, or quit! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.24 20:51:00 - [60] Edited by: Kerfira on 24/01/2010 20:54:12 Originally by: Alberra - Learn the cloak-MWD trick Fit an MWD and a cloak (this can only be done to a few haulers). When you jump through a gate, stay jump-cloaked. On your overview, select your destination. Then, in quick succession, do this: 1. Click the align button (to your destination) 2. Press your keyboard shortcut for your MWD to turn it on, then turn it off immediately 3. Press your keyboard shortcut for your cloak (I always use a T2 cloak) 4. Wait until the MWD cycle runs out. Your speed will jump to 100% or so. 5. Press your keyboard shortcut for your cloak to turn it off 6. Click the warp button (to your destination) You'll be in warp instantly without anyone being able to catch you. Note that this often doesn't work on heavily trafficked gates, as there is likely to be ships within close distance meaning the cloak won't work. This is where you should take other precautions. Note that most people need to practice this a few times to get it right. Originally by: Alberra - Create undock bookmarks Take a small ship and undock from the station.... Do NOT change direction at all, but just set speed to max... Continue until you're somewhat more than 150km from the station (the more the better). Make a bookmark. When you exit the station, DON'T touch any navigational controls. Simply right-click on your bookmark in the 'Places' folder, and click 'Warp To Location'. Even if there are ships in your way, you should go into warp instantly without anyone being able to even target you. If you're a frequent customer at the station, the bookmark should preferably be at least in the next grid. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

speedybot	Posted - 2010.01.24 21:14:00 - [61] Edited by: speedybot on 24/01/2010 21:22:46 Originally by: Kerfira Marked one of your mistakes in red.... Yeah, that's a valid point. That is one thing I could definitely improve on... I'm not the most patient guy. That said though, having to wait 10 hours just to haul a load of cheap junk around is pretty annoying. Originally by: Kerfira Alternately, put up a buy contract well in advance in one of the surrounding systems for your POS fuel, and fetch it from there. You may have to pay a premium, but it'll probably get filled and others will run the risk for you. That's not a bad idea either. After all, at least for most the bulkiest things, I do know in advance that I'm going to need them on a regular basis. Originally by: Kerfira I said speed-fitted Ah. Yeah, ok. You can indeed fit an industrial to make it through gank camps, but like I said, that helps with small loads, but big loads remain a huge PITA. Originally by: Kerfira As I said, you seem to want the easiest possible solution I don't want eve to just be 'easier' in general. I'm choosing to live in a wormhole with no security whatsoever. But I like having places in the game where you don't need to be planning every detail out, sitting around waiting for the right time to move stuff around, and wasting a bunch of time doing small hauling loads and whatnot... Hi sec should be a place where you can regroup and get things together, not an edge of your seat death trap with very limited rewards. Again, some ganking is cool, especially if you're carrying something expensive, but when it goes so far that even the mundane tasks like hauling around POS fuel in hi sec are high risk it's gone too far IMO. Originally by: Kerfira That is why people call you a whiner Only you have called me a whiner. ;) The way these boards work, if somebody created a hack to the game that just gave blobbers an 'I win' button that allowed them to fire a doomsday weapon from a shuttle with no ill effects to themselves and then to autoloot every wreck and have all the loot magically appear in their hanger in Jita, anybody who posted that maybe CCP ought to consider whether it's possible that the hack was creating a slight imbalance in the game would be flamed as a whiner... lol.
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.24 21:21:00 - [62] You will notice how they always avoid the issue with all this bluster about "tears" an crying an silly schoolyard taunting... They know full well that to gank someone for free costing them 100s of millions with no "cost" of their own is wrong. But they will not give it up obviously. Nor will they ever admit that it's wrong. I do find it amusing that anyone who speaks out against it is crying an anyone who promotes this exploiting is one of the true believers! lol All these bull** comments of "stop afking" stop this stop that dotn do this.... it's all rubbish as you well know. Most people are not afking nor are they stupid, its a simple fact that you run round in gang's looking for easy kills an you Alpha the softest targets you can find. I doubt 90% of you have ever seen 0.0 nor will you go there if CCP dragged you down there. Ironically the tough ones are the miners, because they put up with your bull** to do a really poor job in EvE (mining) is one the least profitable game play in highsec EvE. Yet you so called hardcore elite hide out where its all cosy, an nothing can hurt you.... Sorry but you lads have no credibility at this point. We all know eventually it will be fixed, it was done once already few eyars ago. It will happen again.
Kalnov Gallente Problematique Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.24 21:40:00 - [63] Originally by: Zill You will notice how they always avoid the issue with all this bluster about "tears" an crying an silly schoolyard taunting... They know full well that to gank someone for free costing them 100s of millions with no "cost" of their own is wrong. But they will not give it up obviously. Nor will they ever admit that it's wrong. I do find it amusing that anyone who speaks out against it is crying an anyone who promotes this exploiting is one of the true believers! lol All these bull** comments of "stop afking" stop this stop that dotn do this.... it's all rubbish as you well know. Most people are not afking nor are they stupid, its a simple fact that you run round in gang's looking for easy kills an you Alpha the softest targets you can find. I doubt 90% of you have ever seen 0.0 nor will you go there if CCP dragged you down there. Ironically the tough ones are the miners, because they put up with your bull** to do a really poor job in EvE (mining) is one the least profitable game play in highsec EvE. Yet you so called hardcore elite hide out where its all cosy, an nothing can hurt you.... Sorry but you lads have no credibility at this point. We all know eventually it will be fixed, it was done once already few eyars ago. It will happen again. Mining asteroids is wrong. Admit that you're wrong.
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.24 23:26:00 - [64] Edited by: Kerfira on 24/01/2010 23:27:00 Originally by: speedybot Hi sec should be a place where you can regroup and get things together, not an edge of your seat death trap with very limited rewards. And I think it is... You have to take a few basic steps to ensure your own safety, but they're not onerous ones at all.... Originally by: speedybot Only you have called me a whiner. ;) The way these boards work, if somebody created a hack to the game that just gave blobbers an 'I win' button that allowed them to fire a doomsday weapon from a shuttle with no ill effects to themselves and then to autoloot every wreck and have all the loot magically appear in their hanger in Jita, anybody who posted that maybe CCP ought to consider whether it's possible that the hack was creating a slight imbalance in the game would be flamed as a whiner... lol. Probably a few people would, but I know I wouldn't! In general I oppose changes I think makes EVE a simpler game as I think it should be a complex, harsh and dangerous world. I believe EVE to be a much more interesting game if the players actions, and not game mechanics, decides how well he does. A game like this is interesting because of the challenges it presents to players! If you gradually remove challenges, you'll end up with a less interesting game... Is challenge and risk for all players? By all means no, but there are plenty of games that offer the other variety, but very few where there are the risks and consequences that EVE has. EVE is better off being the top game in that category that just one of many in the other. The very unlikely situation you describe (yes, I know you know that too), or less drastic things in that direction would ALSO make EVE simpler (just in the opposite direction) which is just as bad. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
speedybot	Posted - 2010.01.24 23:45:00 - [65] Edited by: speedybot on 24/01/2010 23:47:41 Originally by: Kerfira In general I oppose changes I think makes EVE a simpler game as I think it should be a complex, harsh and dangerous world. I believe EVE to be a much more interesting game if the players actions, and not game mechanics, decides how well he does. A game like this is interesting because of the challenges it presents to players! I don't disagree with that. But, there is a distinction between challenge and pain in the ass. I'd love to see level 5 missions made tougher, or maybe the introduction of level 6 missions. I'd love to see the expansion of the tech 3 ship philosophy so that in a lot of circumstances you wouldn't really be able to tell what kind of ship you were dealing with just from the name. I'd love to see more honest to goodness combat ship vs combat ship PvP. I'd also like to see the mechanics of combat made even more complex. For example, traversal velocity should vary depending on how your ship rotates, not just how the other ship rotates. Things like that would introduce a whole other level of skill requirements from the player and make being a strong pvp pilot a whole lot more complex. Overall I definitely agree with you that challenge is good. But, hi sec gate camping isn't really making anything more challenging, it's just making mundane tasks take longer to complete. To get through the gate with a large volume of cargo requires more trips now... Lots more trips. So people who would rather be off doing something fun and challenging are forced to spend hours hauling instead. Likewise, for the gankers, the game isn't made more challenging at all by the current design. It's just an easy, challenge free, skill free, risk free, way to make boatloads of cash. If we want to make the game more challenging, come up with ways to make attacking other combat ships more profitable than attacking non combat ships... That's what is making it too easy! For example, make it so that when your ship gets blown up 100% of the equipped modules survive intact in the wreck, but only 10% of whatever was in the cargo hold does so that pirates are incentivized to seek out well equipped, dangerous, challenging, targets rather than being incentivized to seek out the easiest targets they can.
Lavraen Minmatar Animus Furandi	Posted - 2010.01.24 23:57:00 - [66] Originally by: Psidal Highsec ganks are getting out of control, you can't even manually pilot a tanked T1 hauler anymore without fear of a 1.0 security gate gank. There should be harsher penalties for this sort of criminal behavior, i.e. exponential sec status loss for unprovoked attacks in higher security space. For instance, if would be criminals initiate an unprovoked attack(someone didn't steal from them, or shoot them first) and destroy a ship in a 1.0 security system they would lose 1.0 from their sec status down to only losing whatever is the current by destroying someone in a 0.5. This only makes sense according to game mythos as well, considering the "Higher security areas" would have stricter rules and regulations regarding all aspects of space travel and combat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this would still allow the asshats to be asshats and provide peace of mind for carebears and veterans alike. I hear star trek online is out soon...
Chendra Sarbon	Posted - 2010.01.25 01:15:00 - [67] I say make them REALLY suicide if they are in high-sec. It isn't suicide when you only lose your ship. Concord should pod kill them too.
Xia Kairui	Posted - 2010.01.25 12:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Chendra Sarbon I say make them REALLY suicide if they are in high-sec. It isn't suicide when you only lose your ship. Concord should pod kill them too. That's not a difference, after all you can simply use a implant-free jump clone. The low mineral values that make insurance-fraud a viable (if boring) way to earn money are the root of this. I recently blew up a dozen of Dominixes and made some millions each time - had I used these ships for a suicide gank the insurance would have paid for the gankage. I actually considered using suicide gank as a way to make the ships blow up faster than the self-destruct (the only reason I did not do it is since I did not want to risk someone else getting the salvage). I have not done the math what a cheap-fit Domi can kill, but I am sure arty ships suitable for ganking are sold below insurance as well. THAT's the core of the problem. Even including insurance and cheap fittings you EARN ISK by suiciding, so the only thing stopping you from firing on every ship that passes through a gate is the 15 minute timer. I have no idea why the mineral prices are down as they are, but IMO this is what makes suicide ganks and stuff like Hulkageddon or what it was called possible. So mineral prices must rise again to prevent that. I could also sell off my stock then :P
Kerfira	Posted - 2010.01.25 13:19:00 - [69] Edited by: Kerfira on 25/01/2010 13:22:05 Originally by: Xia Kairui I have no idea why the mineral prices are down as they are, but IMO this is what makes suicide ganks and stuff like Hulkageddon or what it was called possible. It is quite simple actually. There are simply too many miners/loot-collectors/ratters in EVE producing way too many minerals compared to what is consumed. Now, in a normal free market, a situation like that would result in minerals prices dropping, meaning that fewer people would think it worth their time. However, due to the fixed insurance payout, that can not happen in EVE. The insurance system is the main cause of the problem. Without it (or with a different one), mineral prices would simply keep dropping until an equilibrium was attained. The insurance system needs to be changed in one of the following ways if this problem is to be solved: Removed completely. This is the best solution, but CCP will not have the guts to do so. There'll be way too much whining on the forums... Changed so payout is relative to some kind of average, perhaps weekly mineral average price in high-sec or just Jita. This is MUCH more complex than total removal, and could be open to being 'gamed'.... Because of the problems with solution 2, solution 1 would be the better one. Yes, loads of people would be whining. There'd be cries that this penalized newbies, or PvP'ers, or industrialists, and probably similar cries from all other groups of players. In the end however, we get a balanced EVE market where suicide ganking was reined in a bit, and where insurance fraud was not possible.... The fact that ship losses would start to hurt more would also mean a small shift towards using smaller ships, which in itself would be a good thing. Currently we have ship classes that're never really used because the bigger ships are close to free. More variety is always good.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Alex Deiters	Posted - 2010.01.25 14:00:00 - [70] Originally by: Xia Kairui I have no idea why the mineral prices are down as they are, but IMO this is what makes suicide ganks and stuff like Hulkageddon or what it was called possible. It is quite simple actually. There are simply too many miners/loot-collectors/ratters in EVE producing way too many minerals compared to what is consumed. Now, in a normal free market, a situation like that would result in minerals prices dropping, meaning that fewer people would think it worth their time. However, due to the fixed insurance payout, that can not happen in EVE. The insurance system is the main cause of the problem. Without it (or with a different one), mineral prices would simply keep dropping until an equilibrium was attained. The insurance system needs to be changed in one of the following ways if this problem is to be solved: Removed completely. This is the best solution, but CCP will not have the guts to do so. There'll be way too much whining on the forums... Changed so payout is relative to some kind of average, perhaps weekly mineral average price in high-sec or just Jita. This is MUCH more complex than total removal, and could be open to being 'gamed'.... Because of the problems with solution 2, solution 1 would be the better one. Yes, loads of people would be whining. There'd be cries that this penalized newbies, or PvP'ers, or industrialists, and probably similar cries from all other groups of players. In the end however, we get a balanced EVE market where suicide ganking was reined in a bit, and where insurance fraud was not possible.... The fact that ship losses would start to hurt more would also mean a small shift towards using smaller ships, which in itself would be a good thing. Currently we have ship classes that're never really used because the bigger ships are close to free. More variety is always good.... Remove insurance completely, there is no need for it :D I read about people buying ships just to self destruct to cash in insurance and earn money. To the op buy a freighter it can take a lot of dmg before its dead, concord should be there before you die :D

Archanjo	Posted - 2010.01.25 14:05:00 - [71] Insurance method is helping more pirates than Noobs every day...so why keep this system? In my country RL Car Insurance Companies insure ure car for an ammount payed monthly or 6 by 6 monthes whatever...if u crash youre car.. the ammount payed "by month" increases... cause u have a car crashed... if u crash twice, the ammount high up very significantly... and only after lets say 2 years without crashes it may lower... This rule could be applyed in eve, and I think its the solution. So if a newb to the game crash his car 10 times...what the hell go play Facebook games... But pls it makes nosense that Insurance is paying back cars used to robberys... Sorry my English, its my 5 cents here...
Calkota Retribution. Inc. E-P-O-C-H	Posted - 2010.01.25 14:12:00 - [72] Haulers: Stay away from Jita during peak hours? Miners: If you are bored with mining for next to nothing, try mining something more rare. Lowsec grav sites, null sec, WH mining. If I went to the missions and complexes board and cried that doing level 1 missions in my HAC barely got me any money at all and that I was bored I would be laughed off the forums.
Winterjack	Posted - 2010.01.25 14:45:00 - [73] Originally by: Calkota Miners: If I went to the missions and complexes board and cried that doing level 1 missions in my HAC barely got me any money at all and that I was bored I would be laughed off the forums. I love when people make analogies without knowing anything about what they are talking about. Yet I see complaining about ninja looters in complexes board. I agree that some miners here are just whiny. But when the organizing party of hulkageddon states clearly and many times that he feels the insurance system is broken, maybe you should stop the "carebear" cry and mobilize your braincells. Assuming there is some left.


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