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Lord XSiV Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2009.12.28 22:27:00 - [61] Edited by: Lord XSiV on 28/12/2009 22:27:44 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lord XSiV Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 28/12/2009 19:02:24 Your name sounds oddly familiar from somewhere... Ah yes, I thought it was you. Thanks for the lulz then (post 51), and I have no doubt, in the future. And your point is? Besides being a useless forum troll with no clue, do you have any use at all? That you were a pompous little child then, just as you are now, and just as you most likely always will be. By the way, just so you know: your act is pathetically unconvincing. I've met and dealt with a fair few of the kind of person that you're trying to pretend to be. Most of them wouldn't even bother to hide their laughter if they encountered you; the rest would just ignore you. I'm sure you'll come back with some kind of feeble "NO U" line, but that's really all we'd expect of you. So what you are saying is that you don't have any use at all. At least you are honest about it.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.12.28 22:33:00 - [62] Originally by: Lord XSiV Edited by: Lord XSiV on 28/12/2009 22:27:44 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Lord XSiV Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 28/12/2009 19:02:24 Your name sounds oddly familiar from somewhere... Ah yes, I thought it was you. Thanks for the lulz then (post 51), and I have no doubt, in the future. And your point is? Besides being a useless forum troll with no clue, do you have any use at all? That you were a pompous little child then, just as you are now, and just as you most likely always will be. By the way, just so you know: your act is pathetically unconvincing. I've met and dealt with a fair few of the kind of person that you're trying to pretend to be. Most of them wouldn't even bother to hide their laughter if they encountered you; the rest would just ignore you. I'm sure you'll come back with some kind of feeble "NO U" line, but that's really all we'd expect of you. So what you are saying is that you don't have any use at all. At least you are honest about it. Funny, what we all heard was "Game, Set, and Match". ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2009.12.28 22:42:00 - [63] Originally by: Ranger 1 You do realize that of the money you pay for your isk, only the smallest fraction goes to the supposed "hungry guy" right? The bulk of it goes into the pocket of the guy running the sweat shop, so that he can keep fuel in his Caddy. You are a real good Samaritan you are. Please. And you realize that you only get a small portion of the proceeds from slaving away selling all those Mchappy meals all day at work, so your boss can pay the premiums on his Porsche. But at the end of the week you get a paycheck, nonetheless. So what exactly is your point? Mr Epeen
Asuri Kinnes The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.12.28 22:52:00 - [64] Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 28/12/2009 22:52:48 Originally by: Lord XSiV So what you are saying is that you don't have any use at all. At least you are honest about it. You sir, are a dolt (in game, of course). Everything in E-O is the intellectual property of CCP. RMT's making a living off of the intellectual property of CCP damages that which you purport to be in favor of (capitalism). RMT's did not do the work to envision or code E-O, and yet you support their theft of CCP's intellectual property. Way to go! Originally by: Mr Epeen And you realize that you only get a small portion of the proceeds from slaving away selling all those Mchappy meals all day at work, so your boss can pay the premiums on his Porsche. But at the end of the week you get a paycheck, nonetheless. So what exactly is your point? Mr Epeen Working at McDonalds is legal, and ripping off someone elses work isn't? Logic much?
Jordan Doe	Posted - 2009.12.28 22:54:00 - [65] Edited by: Jordan Doe on 28/12/2009 22:56:27 Originally by: Ranger 1 However the point still stands that if the RMT trade was concentrated in another nation (or done by followers of a particular faith, or all wore a particular hair style for that matter), it would be in that direction that the generalization would be directed. The people making those generalizations aren't anti-Chinese any more than they are anti-Eskimo. The target of their anger is the illegitimate isk seller, that is the common denominator... not that they are Chinese. Agreed. And often enough people will scream 'racist' as soon as one mentions another nationality or ethnicity just to stir up trouble. It all comes down to context and most things are either common denominator or even just lighthearted humour empolying some form of stereotype - all without any racist implications. It's just that I have seen people go overboard on the issue sometimes. And it's a sensitive issue so I think its good to be aware of it at all times while discussing the acual topic which is how rmt hurts our game. As to Hanniblecter I surely didn't mean to imply you wanted to make any kind of offensive comment. I am just saying to me the combination of unwashed masses and productive western players looked like something that may not help the discourse at all. As I said its a sensitive issue and sometimes the choice of words can make a difference but I didn't want to accuse you of anything but good intentions. So my apologies for that. Still more on the actual topic I can't help but think it is delicate. For someone who does not play (in the sense of gaming) and love eve-online the way we all do farming isk for rmt may be just as much a normal day-to-day job as dumping numbers into an excel sheet is for us. Raising awareness in the public maybe a good idea but ultimately most non-gamers will not care and maybe won't even see the relevance. And I can't blame them either.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.28 22:55:00 - [66] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Ranger 1 You do realize that of the money you pay for your isk, only the smallest fraction goes to the supposed "hungry guy" right? The bulk of it goes into the pocket of the guy running the sweat shop, so that he can keep fuel in his Caddy. You are a real good Samaritan you are. Please. And you realize that you only get a small portion of the proceeds from slaving away selling all those Mchappy meals all day at work, so your boss can pay the premiums on his Porsche. But at the end of the week you get a paycheck, nonetheless. So what exactly is your point? Mr Epeen The point being that anyone who tries to justify RMT farming in games with the "it helps the poor chinese/indians/whoever that I buy from" line is an obvious idiot. The only difference is that instead of being exploited to make stupid $90 running shoes or $9 flags, they're being exploited to **** up the game we enjoy playing.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:00:00 - [67] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Ranger 1 You do realize that of the money you pay for your isk, only the smallest fraction goes to the supposed "hungry guy" right? The bulk of it goes into the pocket of the guy running the sweat shop, so that he can keep fuel in his Caddy. You are a real good Samaritan you are. Please. And you realize that you only get a small portion of the proceeds from slaving away selling all those Mchappy meals all day at work, so your boss can pay the premiums on his Porsche. But at the end of the week you get a paycheck, nonetheless. So what exactly is your point? Mr Epeen The point would be that justifying dealing with RMT by playing the "I'm helping to feed the starving" is: 1: Untrue 2: Laughable 3: Stereotyping It's obvious the only thing motivating people dealing with RMT is the desire to save a couple of bucks on the ISK they purchase, and evidence of the fact that they could care less if they are damaging the game that most of us here greatly enjoy. If this includes you, so be it. I will enjoy reading your heartfelt post of bitterness protesting how long it takes for CCP to get you back the account that your "starving folk" decided it was time to harvest from you. If not, stop trolling. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Trathen Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:02:00 - [68] '80s Business Guy is back! With more stories! _
Forge Lag Jita Lag Preservation Fund	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:03:00 - [69] Edited by: Forge Lag on 28/12/2009 23:05:37 RMT is hamfull for the game as it uses unnatural play patterns, destabilizing game ballance. MMOs use abusive scheme to force inadequate time investment. You won't get far replacing bad by ugly with an extra evil on side. But it does look like valid solution to very real problem if you can't see one step ahead. Edit: What's up with all this "chinese", "hack", "starving", "illegal" emo ballast? "Real men play badminton, deep diving is for pussies." PvP 13373P33K unscrambled
Sphit Ker	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:12:00 - [70] Edited by: Sphit Ker on 28/12/2009 23:14:08 Originally by: Sphit Ker You can't create demand from supply. Originally by: Ranger 1 Really? Try telling that to any advertising company in the free world and they will sell you a hundred reasons why you are wrong. People are not automatically interested by what is readily available. You can try selling me a bridge all you want, it does not mean I want to buy a bridge. ...but you just might catch a fish... The following statement is not my signature. The preceding statement is my signature.
Lord XSiV Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:19:00 - [71] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 28/12/2009 22:52:48 You sir, are a dolt (in game, of course). Everything in E-O is the intellectual property of CCP. RMT's making a living off of the intellectual property of CCP damages that which you purport to be in favor of (capitalism). RMT's did not do the work to envision or code E-O, and yet you support their theft of CCP's intellectual property. Way to go! Well at least you addressed me properly as 'Sir' so I will play. Let's take a step out of reality and act like you have a clue for role play purposes. Using your argument, CCP would have to be paying a ton of people for use of the Internet in order to allow players to use the service (after all, CCP didn't create it nor own any of the local links) so essentially they would be in violation of not only intellectual property rights but infrastructure use. As for your claim as to theft of IP - well someone would have to be running an instance of Eve for it to be theft. Manipulating in game items isn't IP infringement regardless of how much koolaid you have guzzled. The extent that CCP has rights to anything from a world view perspective is limited to that within their game. I don't think I contested that anywhere, nor would I as it their property and they can do with it as they want. Now when you start making accusations of criminal and/or illegal activity that is when you step out into the real world where CCP does not have jurisdiction - the legal system does. The issue at hand is throwing those kinds of accusations around based on non-factual statements made by whoever posing as some sort of authority when they are not. This can all be revert if the context is changed to a perspective of 'in-game' for that is where CCP does have undisputed jurisdiction and can call anything they want an illegal activity. Anyhow, I doubt you would understand such things but that is ok - we like peons the way they are.
Herr Wilkus	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:32:00 - [72] LOL. The poor make things suck because they let people pee on their backs for pennies a day and its funny. (That is, until they screw up the game and hack your account - then they need to be put down.) The rich suck because they annoy us when they buy their way to the front of the line. Of course, the people that complain about the poor (ISK sellers/prostitutes) are usually mildly entertaining, because lets face it - willing prostration is funny. The people who complain about the rich (ISK Buyers/Johns) are usually just sanctimonious Che Guevara T-shirt wearers and Obama fanbois.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:56:00 - [73] Originally by: Trathen '80s Business Guy is back! With more stories! And Bonitis!
Typhado3 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.29 00:11:00 - [74] Edited by: Typhado3 on 29/12/2009 00:16:06 ... gold farmers aren't no robin hood. Remember the aftereffects of unholy rage? Our forums got massively spammed with links that resulted in your account getting hacked. We still have forum posts of ppl getting their account hacked by these poor starving people. The claim that they aren't linked is lawyer bull****. They are industry that skirts the law and misuses the mmo makers. Trying to find evidence that they are linked would be like trying to find evidence drugs are linked to crime without the help of police. I really have no pitty for people who do this sort of thing. ------------------------------ God is AFK, I am not
Asuri Kinnes The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.12.29 00:34:00 - [75] Originally by: Lord XSiV Well at least you addressed me properly as 'Sir' so I will play. Let's take a step out of reality and act like you have a clue for role play purposes. Using your argument, CCP would have to be paying a ton of people for use of the Internet in order to allow players to use the service (after all, CCP didn't create it nor own any of the local links) so essentially they would be in violation of not only intellectual property rights but infrastructure use. As for your claim as to theft of IP - well someone would have to be running an instance of Eve for it to be theft. Manipulating in game items isn't IP infringement regardless of how much koolaid you have guzzled. The extent that CCP has rights to anything from a world view perspective is limited to that within their game. I don't think I contested that anywhere, nor would I as it their property and they can do with it as they want. Now when you start making accusations of criminal and/or illegal activity that is when you step out into the real world where CCP does not have jurisdiction - the legal system does. The issue at hand is throwing those kinds of accusations around based on non-factual statements made by whoever posing as some sort of authority when they are not. This can all be revert if the context is changed to a perspective of 'in-game' for that is where CCP does have undisputed jurisdiction and can call anything they want an illegal activity. Anyhow, I doubt you would understand such things but that is ok - we like peons the way they are. Lets play pretend! I LIKE THAT GAME! Ummm, CCP does pay to access the interwebs... Its called bandwidth? Nice strawman. Actually not, that is so poor you should go back and edit it out. I mean, only Eve-Search will remember... So, since you didn't address the issue, how can you, as a self-described "capitalist" who values innovation and initiative, be "ok" with people who have created nothing and profit from other peoples work? They (the RMT'ers) exist as parasites on the body corporate that is CCP. You say that CCP "can do anything in game" because its their property, and yet, very clearly you have come out supporting RMT's, even though its forbidden by CCP in game? Forgetting all that () There is the very real matter of Copyright law. While it has not kept up with the speed of innovation on the Interwebs, there are bills under consideration in the US, UK, Japan, Korea and France (google it yourself!) dealing with RMT. Using someone else' copywritten material should, very soon, be criminally actionable... To PROTECT the people (capitalists...) who created it... Good Sir Dolt, you fail at forum trolling quiet as well as you fail at pretending to be a capitalist of any stripe!
Jones Bones Final Agony	Posted - 2009.12.29 00:37:00 - [76] Supply will always be met by demand, even if that supply is brought about by nefarious means. Lotta crazy up in this thread though.
Lord XSiV Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol	Posted - 2009.12.29 00:44:00 - [77] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes So, since you didn't address the issue, how can you, as a self-described "capitalist" who values innovation and initiative, be "ok" with people who have created nothing and profit from other peoples work? They (the RMT'ers) exist as parasites on the body corporate that is CCP. You say that CCP "can do anything in game" because its their property, and yet, very clearly you have come out supporting RMT's, even though its forbidden by CCP in game? Forgetting all that () There is the very real matter of Copyright law. While it has not kept up with the speed of innovation on the Interwebs, there are bills under consideration in the US, UK, Japan, Korea and France (google it yourself!) dealing with RMT. Using someone else' copywritten material should, very soon, be criminally actionable... To PROTECT the people (capitalists...) who created it... Good Sir Dolt, you fail at forum trolling quiet as well as you fail at pretending to be a capitalist of any stripe! Koolaid you have drunk much of. As I stated in a previous post, you lack the ability to understand the simplest of constructs.
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Red Federation	Posted - 2009.12.29 00:51:00 - [78] Originally by: Lord XSiV ...you are essentially condoning sweatshop labor and have no respect for the human race... Originally by: Lord XSiV Those of us who know better (have made money through capitalism) known that it is the brains of the operation that takes the lions share of the profit for it is the labor lambs who do not know any better, will never know any better and are just happy to be lead around.... why are you hitting youreself
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.29 01:01:00 - [79] …is it bad of me to instantly in my head create an acronym for that magazine: ScAM? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
reip cage Shut Up and P1ay	Posted - 2009.12.29 02:24:00 - [80] It seems to me there's a bit of a unproven intervening variable in the CCP argument at the moment. Specifically, their formula goes like this: Player wants isk -> player buys isk from farmer -> farmer gets money -> CCP lose money for development. Player wants isk -> Player buys plex -> CCP gets money In the model second formula, the fact is that they ignore that the plex means a stagnant rate of exchange between dollars to isk; the supply side being the only mitigation of price. The counterfactual to that is that in the second situation, once supply and demand [of game access] reaches an equilibrium, anything in excess hurts the players, but in the first situation, anything in excess of the equilibrium is then profited off of by the gold farmers. If my supposition is correct, then I'd personally like to see where the increase in profits from the RMT bannings in June went into improving and investing gameplay, because quite frankly, it didn't go into QA for dominion. Now, there's a thought, hire gold farmers to do some of your QA. Mindless repetitive work, and co-opting your opposition.
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.12.29 03:06:00 - [81] Want to give someone your money for free? well, you're free to do so. Keep on buyin' isks from illegal resellers, chinese farmers love you <3
Lady Karma	Posted - 2009.12.29 03:22:00 - [82] Originally by: Lord XSiV And your point is? Nice posting in that thread Lord XDiV. I think his point is that you are a laughable idiot. Reminder for you, you are playing a spaceship game. Go buy yourself a friend.
Trathen Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.29 03:34:00 - [83] Edited by: Trathen on 29/12/2009 03:35:20 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Trathen '80s Business Guy is back! With more stories! And Bonitis! Yeah! I think more of this guy too. I am reminded of Blake from Glengarry Glen Ross, only much less awesome. reference (warning - naughty words): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-AXTx4PcKI _
Asuri Kinnes The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.12.29 04:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Lord XSiV Koolaid you have drunk much of. As I stated in a previous post, you lack the ability to understand the simplest of constructs. Thats what you got? Thats it? I don't support RMT's, and look forward to the day when we have an international law enforcing criminal sanctions against the RMT owners/CEO's - not the poor *******s slogging away day after day...
Myra2007 Perkone	Posted - 2009.12.29 04:57:00 - [85] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes I don't support RMT's, and look forward to the day when we have an international law enforcing criminal sanctions against the RMT owners/CEO's Right after we've solved world hunger, wars and the climate change? I mean ffs no one in the real world is going to care. So much should be obvious for everyone. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.12.29 06:53:00 - [86] Originally by: Sphit Ker Edited by: Sphit Ker on 28/12/2009 23:14:08 Originally by: Sphit Ker You can't create demand from supply. Originally by: Ranger 1 Really? Try telling that to any advertising company in the free world and they will sell you a hundred reasons why you are wrong. People are not automatically interested by what is readily available. You can try selling me a bridge all you want, it does not mean I want to buy a bridge. ...but you just might catch a fish... The advertising industry will be very disappointed that all that money they are paid has no effect on creating demand. You see, they are operating under the premise that people tend to want what they are told they want, especially if they are bombarded with the idea... much like the spamming of isk sellers in local up until a few weeks ago. Of course, as far as buying Isk is concerned it doesn't hurt that the purchaser can also justify their actions to themselves with false visions of helping poor starving folk and sticking it to the man by their actions. Not to mention the fact that they can save a buck at the expense of someone else. Back to the main point of your argument, your premise is incorrect. Supply often creates demand, both in game and out. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Alderon Mizuchi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.29 07:00:00 - [87] Edited by: Alderon Mizuchi on 29/12/2009 07:00:34 The argument that it's okay because they're poor Chinese men is the most **** poor argument I've ever heard. In that case, I guess it's okay for the poor kids in gangs to shoot, rob, sell drugs, and kill people, because hey, they need the money, right? Christ people... Whether they're poor or not, it's still criminal activity. Being poor doesn't suddenly make it okay.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.12.29 07:17:00 - [88] Originally by: Tippia àis it bad of me to instantly in my head create an acronym for that magazine: ScAM? Nah, the creationists already beat you to it. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.29 07:48:00 - [89] TL;DR. Name a game that is 100% without any grind whatsoever with a subscription fee. I'll name a game that's probably going out of business within six months to a year. If players have nothing to strive for, they get bored and look for something else. In the old days it was a high score table. Nowadays it's leaderboards and other ways of publishing how awesome you are.
D3aths M3ssenger	Posted - 2009.12.29 08:46:00 - [90] Edited by: D3aths M3ssenger on 29/12/2009 08:49:18 This is just for Lord XSiV: Here is an example of how Botting, which is practiced by RMT businesses, was determined to be illegal in a court of law. here is a handy excerpt for you: Blizzard owns a valid copyright in the game client software, Blizzard has granted a limited license for WoW players to use the software, use of the software with Glider falls outside the scope of the license established in section 4 of the TOU, use of Glider includes copying to RAM within the meaning of section 106 of the Copyright Act, users of WoW and Glider are not entitled to a section 117 defense, and Glider users therefore infringe BlizzardÆs copyright. MDY does not dispute that the other requirements for contributory and vicarious copyright infringement are met, nor has MDY established a misuse defense. The Court accordingly will grant summary judgment in favor of Blizzard with respect to liability on the contributory and vicarious copyright infringement claims in Counts II and III. GAME, SET, MATCH, TOURNAMENT, CHAMPIONSHIP, UNIVERSAL TITLE OF AWESOMENEES GOES TO ME!!!!!

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