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Crusie Missles Required for Level 4's?

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Janisarus Mimoza Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:34:00 - [1] Hi guys Searched for a direct answer to this question and i could not for the life of me find out the answer. Its pretty simple but i have heard otherwise on corp chat. Are cruise missiles pretty much required to handle level 4 ships, or will heavies do? I have tried a level 4 in my drake and was able to tank and kill everything, except for a BS. I've heard that fury heavies can work well and make level 4's doable but is it worth it? Thanks so much for reading!
Vlad Thorne Caldari DiamondHead Research and Investment Associates	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:38:00 - [2] I've done multiple lvl 4s in a drake with heavy missiles. You can kill pretty much everything if you match your ammo to the resistances of the npcs you engage. It's a lot more time consuming than a Raven with cruise missiles, though....
trevormax	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:51:00 - [3] Edited by: trevormax on 30/12/2009 18:52:27 I used to do L4's in a drake while I was training up for a raven. I could do most of the level 4s with T1 heavy missiles easy although it took a while to kill the BS's. One mission I could not do however was Vengeance as the final rat, Rachen Mysuna, was a 2.5 mil bounty BS with a 75% chance for shield boost of 1000hp every ten seconds. I just couldn't break his tank. Whether or not this is possible with T2 ammo I am not sure though as I am in a Raven now.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:58:00 - [4] L4s can easily be done with HML Drakes - you just need to fit 2-3 damage mods. But, I strongly prefer Torps and Cruise. :) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Janisarus Mimoza Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.30 19:11:00 - [5] Thanks for the replies so far guys. HML Drake? High missle level? Damage mods, like BCU's and mod rigs?
GyokZoli Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.30 19:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Janisarus Mimoza Hi guys Searched for a direct answer to this question and i could not for the life of me find out the answer. Its pretty simple but i have heard otherwise on corp chat. Are cruise missiles pretty much required to handle level 4 ships, or will heavies do? I have tried a level 4 in my drake and was able to tank and kill everything, except for a BS. I've heard that fury heavies can work well and make level 4's doable but is it worth it? Thanks so much for reading! This is your standard Drake setup for level 4s: [Drake, Drake lvl4s] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot] Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x5 Just don't forget to replace the hardeners/amplifiers and the missiles for the proper ones for different kind of rats.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.30 19:54:00 - [7] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 30/12/2009 19:54:24 My Drake put out a bit over 500 dps on kinetic not including drones. It was more than enough to break any BS rat regardless of what their resists are. Though when I started I had closer to 250 dps and even that was enough. The trick is to get an AB on your fit and get in close to counter NPC defender missiles. Just keep in mind the only time you ever want to match NPC resists in a drake (or other ship that only gets kinetic bonus) is when you're fighting against things weak to EM (rogue drones, sansha, blood raiders, amarr empire etc). But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Janisarus Mimoza Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.30 19:58:00 - [8] So your saying that unless the target is EM weak, only use kinetic missiles, due to the ships bonus? Also how do i calculate my DPS?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.30 20:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Janisarus Mimoza So your saying that unless the target is EM weak, only use kinetic missiles, due to the ships bonus? Also how do i calculate my DPS? You got it... as long your ship skill is 3 or higher the bonus will almost always overcome the difference in resists (if you weren't aware, everything that's not weakest to EM or kinetic has kinetic as its 2nd lowest resist). Personally I get my DPS from EFT. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Janisarus Mimoza Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.30 20:34:00 - [10] Wet, can you break down your skill set up to me? I have to be doing something wrong somewhere, i tanked my first level 4 with no sweat, the BS was annoying but i could not break his tank, he recharged his shield and armor faster than i could take it down, using 7 tech 1 launchers with rat specific missiles.

Mugster	Posted - 2009.12.30 20:35:00 - [11] Its very much possible to use a drake with normal missiles, but you should really train for t2 launchers, and t2 light drones. The extra missile capacity and drone damage can mean the difference between breaking the tank on a BS and watching the shields recharging while you reload.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.30 21:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Janisarus Mimoza Wet, can you break down your skill set up to me? I have to be doing something wrong somewhere, i tanked my first level 4 with no sweat, the BS was annoying but i could not break his tank, he recharged his shield and armor faster than i could take it down, using 7 tech 1 launchers with rat specific missiles. I have warhead upgrades IV, heavy spec IV and the rest are maxed. I also have 5% heavy missile damage and RoF implants but I didn't always, skills were only at level 3-4 on everything when I began running lvl 4s (it was slow). I'm guessing you were up against one of the tough named rats in a Vengeance mission? You should easily be able to handle anything else, but a couple of those mission NPCs have particularly strong tanks. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Janisarus Mimoza Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.30 21:29:00 - [13] wow okay, im now where near that amount of SP in missles, im just a relatively savvy player. i think the mission was massive attack lvl4 with sansha, and the stage two battleship i wasnt able to down, everything else went more or less the same as level 3's. well so what i get from all this is... lvl 4s are doable in drakes with heavies with lots of skill and damage mods and good launchers and ammo, use kenetic unless EM resistant enimes to take advantage of drakes bonus, a raven or better with cruise will obviously be better and faster at lvl4s. is that about it?
Draulin Gallente Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.12.30 21:50:00 - [14] I've always done L4s in a Drake, but upgraded a few months ago to the Nighthawk (T2 Drake). If you look at EFT you'll see the DPS is about the same as the Golem with cruise launchers, but volley damage is much lower. And btw, HML is Heavy Missile Launcher.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.12.30 22:45:00 - [15] If you are just getting into L4s, I'd suggest going the cruise raven route. Yeah heavies can do it, but it will take a lot longer with a drake or the skills to fly a NH. Imho those sp are better put into a cruise raven and ultimately a golem. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Janisarus Mimoza Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.30 23:52:00 - [16] okay, i got it then i think. work on skills, get better launchers and go for raven and cruise..
Fornicis Caldari APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2009.12.31 00:58:00 - [17] Mhm, you can do level 4's in a Drake but it will be slower than a Cruise Raven, I use my CNR and can blitz almost every level 4, even drawing full room aggro on the Blockade and my skills aren't anything special, good luck mate :)
Draulin Gallente Independent Faction	Posted - 2010.01.04 04:13:00 - [18] I compared popular fits for Ravens, CNRs and Golems using Cruise missiles, they have about the same DPS as my old Drake, and the same as my new Nighthawk. Sure the Volley is lower, but with a rate of fire barely over 3 seconds, it makes up for it. Plus it can hit smaller ships nicely.
Arwen Tyler	Posted - 2010.01.04 08:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Fornicis Mhm, you can do level 4's in a Drake but it will be slower than a Cruise Raven, I use my CNR and can blitz almost every level 4, even drawing full room aggro on the Blockade and my skills aren't anything special, good luck mate :) There is no way you can get full room agro from the Blockade.
PokinoCupra	Posted - 2010.01.04 11:23:00 - [20] use heavy missiles with tengu for lvl4 :)

Nemori Sanstari	Posted - 2010.01.04 18:05:00 - [21] HML = heavy missile launcher (as opposed to HAM: Heavy assault missile)
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.04 18:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Draulin I compared popular fits for Ravens, CNRs and Golems using Cruise missiles, they have about the same DPS as my old Drake, and the same as my new Nighthawk. Sure the Volley is lower, but with a rate of fire barely over 3 seconds, it makes up for it. Plus it can hit smaller ships nicely. Wait, your old Drake had 1000+ DPS? I can haz fit? -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.04 19:53:00 - [23] Edited by: Mendolus on 04/01/2010 19:55:38 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Draulin I compared popular fits for Ravens, CNRs and Golems using Cruise missiles, they have about the same DPS as my old Drake, and the same as my new Nighthawk. Sure the Volley is lower, but with a rate of fire barely over 3 seconds, it makes up for it. Plus it can hit smaller ships nicely. Wait, your old Drake had 1000+ DPS? I can haz fit? -Liang Agreed, I'd be curious to see this mystical setup, almost every fit I have tinkered with on the Golem has a close range (25-30km) base of +850 with torps/drones, and goes as high as +1200 depending on whether you're tanking Guristas which lets you drop some tank for gank, and etc. I can barely scratch 800DPS on an All Vs and Implants in a Drake with nothing but BCUs, Accelerators, and T2 HAMs/drones, lol which is a total failfit for L4s anyways... lol 250 tank and a missile range of 15km for an L4? /plays Living On The Edge {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.04 22:23:00 - [24] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 04/01/2010 22:24:33 Originally by: trevormax Edited by: trevormax on 30/12/2009 18:52:27 I used to do L4's in a drake while I was training up for a raven. I could do most of the level 4s with T1 heavy missiles easy although it took a while to kill the BS's. One mission I could not do however was Vengeance as the final rat, Rachen Mysuna, was a 2.5 mil bounty BS with a 75% chance for shield boost of 1000hp every ten seconds. I just couldn't break his tank. Whether or not this is possible with T2 ammo I am not sure though as I am in a Raven now. I switched to faction heavy missiles just for him and he blew-up real good. I was using regular T1 ammo. I did a LOT of level 4 missions in a Drake with T1 ammo and no other problems.
Harrowedsmiley Caldari Versus Gloria Omnis Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici	Posted - 2010.01.04 23:34:00 - [25] I run plenty of LVL4's with a HML Drake with above average skills. Check EFT and spend the time to tailor custom setups depending on the faction you'll be engaging. It's worth it.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.01.05 01:17:00 - [26] Just chiming in with "me too!" I've run every level 4 mission available to Minmatar and Gallente agents in a Drake, using T1/T2 launchers and T1 ammo. I've run most level 4 missions in a Raven too. The tank on the Raven requires more skills than the Drake, but the DPS difference is night and day. The Raven will have problems with small ships, which is where your light drones come into play. In Worlds Collide, the Raven will have a hell of a time trying to kill the Angel Spy frigates since they speed-tank the cruise missils. You can't launch your drones unless you really want to have full-room aggro, so what I usually do is fit a webber just for that mission (or bring a friend who burns out to 80km and snipes the Angel Spy frigates, gets full room aggro, and the pair of you proceed to blow everything up before the friend's tank fails). But trust me on the night vs day comparison of DPS versus larger ships. I'll just add in parting that running missions with friends can make them a little less boring and tedious. [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
quiet monkey	Posted - 2010.01.05 01:33:00 - [27] Er I dont see anyone else mentioning this so I will chip it in. You can also use HAMs (Heavy Assault Missiles) to boost your drakes dps, you will need to fit an AB though. Personally I use a tengu for a whole list of reasons, however lots of people will dismiss them as mission runners. P.S reasons include impossible to get 100% hit with scan probes, speed, coolness, ability to get away from gate camps, can use the same ship for mission lvl 2-5 and don't worry about rat specific tank for anything <lvl 4.
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.01.05 03:56:00 - [28] Originally by: Draulin I've always done L4s in a Drake, but upgraded a few months ago to the Nighthawk (T2 Drake). If you look at EFT you'll see the DPS is about the same as the Golem with cruise launchers, but volley damage is much lower. And btw, HML is Heavy Missile Launcher. Only if the Nighthawk is using kinetic Rage HAMs and the Golem is using T1 or CN cruise missiles. Of course, the Nighthawk has range issues and some fitting compromises to make. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP"
Thistlefury	Posted - 2010.01.06 00:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 04/01/2010 22:26:48 Originally by: trevormax Edited by: trevormax on 30/12/2009 18:52:27 Raven kills battleships and battlecruisers faster, but has far less tank than a Drake. Takes getting used to (i.e. I lost my first raven about 24 hours after I got it, but haven't lost one in the months since). This is not correct, the raven is capable of tanking just as good as a drake, and does alot more dps versus BS'. I take it you fitted your Raven as a passive tank, which doesnt work very well. The shield / Regen ration just isnt there. Play around in EFT using an active setup with a shield boost amplifier, XL shield booster 2/3 invuls. With decent skills your Raven/Navy Raven will outperform your drake. Also, as an active tank you have the option to fit your Raven with Faction Boosters/invuls, while there are no faction Shield power relays/rechargers. This costs alot, but if you run missions daily, you will see that Loyalty Points are easy to get.
Talio ZomB	Posted - 2010.01.06 09:25:00 - [30] really depends on your skills as to what is best to use. drake can bring to the field over 630+ dps on scourge fury + hob t2s granted thats in favour of its kin bonus, max skills, zml1000, zmh2000, 3 cn bcs. most ppl seriously overtank their drakes beyond what is required... pussies!!!



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