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Rolk Anderson
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Posted - 2010.01.04 23:03:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rolk Anderson on 04/01/2010 23:13:48
This is an idea that has been rolling around in the empty space between my ears and I was wondering if...
A) Would it work?
B) Would there be any interest?
C) Would YOU take part
D) Does my bum look big in this?
What is it?
Ivar Kreuger's High-yield investment program is a ponzi scheme.
A scam?
Not as such, the idea is that Investors (or players seeing as its more of a game than an investment) put money into the ponzi scheme. They are then paid a very high rate of interest, about 20% per week, and can take thier money out at any time. This interest is paid out from the orginal investment meaning that the fund will eventually collapse. It is not a scam because YOU know about it.
How do I make profitz?
By using the information provided ie interest rates and the number of forum posts to judge how close the scheme is to collapse and removing your funds just before it does so.
Anything else?
The use of incentives to promote growth such as double interest if you recruit someone would be a likely one. Also this is just an idea at the moment. I encourage you to send me isk but don't expect any back
Whats the risk?
Don't be stupid
Do you realise that using a Q&A to explain your idea is a cheap and shows you to be both ignorant and lazy?
Yes
Please remember this is just an idea. I only want feedback and it almost definatly will not occur any time soon.
For more information on what a ponzi scheme is see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme#Notable_Ponzi_schemes
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.05 01:37:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Rolk Anderson
put money into the ponzi scheme. They are then paid a very high rate of interest,
So you are confirming this is a scam and you are a scammer. Congrats on outing yourself.
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Companion Qube
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Posted - 2010.01.05 01:40:00 -
[3]
Mr Madoff, I presume?
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Katiana Swan
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Posted - 2010.01.05 01:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Rolk Anderson
put money into the ponzi scheme. They are then paid a very high rate of interest,
So you are confirming this is a scam and you are a scammer. Congrats on outing yourself.
I have heard of these being done in Eve before with people being well aware it was occuring. I have to agree with the op, if you know it's a ponzi the idea is to invest and pull out when you think the ponzi may be nearing collapse. I don't think it's really justified to call him a scammer when this isn't really a scam, more of buying into a bubble, and holding for as long as you can, bailing out just before the bubble bursts.
I think weekly interest is too far apart, I see the ponzi bursting after 1-2 weeks max. I would be setting interest to daily with a lower percent such as 2% (daily) to allow the ponzi more time to mature before it bursts.
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vlex
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:44:00 -
[5]
As long as "investors" are aware its a ponzi scheme, I wouldn't consider this a scam. More like a lottery, where whether you win the jackpot or lose (or get out early and win a small amount) depends on when you decide to get out.
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Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2010.01.05 07:00:00 -
[6]
Problem: Presumably you will want to make money on this yourself. Your profit will come from simply keeping a portion of the isk once the bubble collapses.
You will therefore have to state from the onset how much isk you will grab, and you will have to stand buy your word. And you will only get investors when you can convince us that you will keep your word. Which is to say: never.
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MD stock market / Audits 001 / MD investees |
Rolk Anderson
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:31:00 -
[7]
Clearly I would not be able to run it having done no bonds what so ever and thus no trust. Presumably whoever did it would have some kind of auditer making sure s/he keeps his word.
As stated above its not a scam as its not an investment.
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RJ Nobel
Nobel Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.01.05 09:31:00 -
[8]
Step one: Create ponzi fund.
Step two: Embed alts into fund.
Step three: Grow fund using advertising and pyramid incentives.
Step four: Use alts to collapse fund.
Step five: Mock the victims for putting their ISK into a ponzi scheme?
This is essentially the equivalent of inviting a few high-rollers to a game of poker, then telling the dealer that he can walk away with all of the money on the table whenever he wants to. There's simply no way to keep the fund operator from manipulating the system.
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Mme Pinkerton
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.05 11:47:00 -
[9]
Akita T has thought of it before  - Linkage
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"The public may not fully understand precisely what auditors do or how we do it, but they care that we exist because it provides them the confidence they so badly need and want." |
Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2010.01.05 12:05:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
Akita T has thought of it before - Linkage
Lmao, I thought you were linking to the Technetium thread 
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MD stock market / Audits 001 / MD investees |
Rolk Anderson
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Posted - 2010.01.05 18:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: RJ Nobel
Step one: Create ponzi fund.
Step two: Embed alts into fund.
Step three: Grow fund using advertising and pyramid incentives.
Step four: Use alts to collapse fund.
Step five: Mock the victims for putting their ISK into a ponzi scheme?
This is essentially the equivalent of inviting a few high-rollers to a game of poker, then telling the dealer that he can walk away with all of the money on the table whenever he wants to. There's simply no way to keep the fund operator from manipulating the system.
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RJ Nobel
Nobel Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.01.05 21:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rolk Anderson
3 options present themselves
a) Give it to someone with more rep to run
b) Have someone with more rep hold the money and you act as a middleman never touching the isk
c) use a payment scheme that encourages a fast movement of money and give wages as a % of that money as it moves. This keeps funds low and could in theory pay more from transaction fee's than from just nicking all the isk.
a) A poster's reputation won't prevent them from using anonymous/unknown alts to manipulate the system. For example: Chribba could run this operation, manipulate it to his heart's content, then walk away with the same gold-standard reputation.
b) There's still no way to ensure that the middleman (whoever is collecting the pool of money left when the scheme collapses) isn't manipulating it.
c) Then where is the incentive for the initial investors?
It's a net-zero business, which makes it a very hard sell. Good luck. 
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Rolk Anderson
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Posted - 2010.01.05 22:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: RJ Nobel
a) A poster's reputation won't prevent them from using anonymous/unknown alts to manipulate the system. For example: Chribba could run this operation, manipulate it to his heart's content, then walk away with the same gold-standard reputation.
b) There's still no way to ensure that the middleman (whoever is collecting the pool of money left when the scheme collapses) isn't manipulating it.
c) Then where is the incentive for the initial investors?
It's a net-zero business, which makes it a very hard sell. Good luck.
your points are valid and thats the inherant flaw in it... however as I currently have no plans to sell it it won't be a hard sell .
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