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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jade Ear
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Posted - 2003.06.25 01:54:00 -
[1]
Then again, I have 20 slots and have only used one once....
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.06.25 01:55:00 -
[2]
Burn in the EVE hell unless it's irony here.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Drefsab
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Posted - 2003.06.25 01:59:00 -
[3]
Factory slots arnt hard to come by the problem is how many jumps those slots are from where your main base of operations is.
"Death Before Dishonor" |
WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:01:00 -
[4]
I have explored 1/4 of the non-empire regions in EVE. All slots rented.
I'm curious how you seem to find all these open slots, what is your secret? I'm currently 87 jumps from our home system.
"Trust No One" |
Drefsab
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:04:00 -
[5]
Next time I see some I will post the location on the forum, but last time I went out I found about 3 stations with all free slots. Might be going out back that way again on friday so will let you guys know.
"Death Before Dishonor" |
Pann
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:15:00 -
[6]
One of the ideas we are working on is to tie the number of factory slots one can lease to the skill level he or she possesses. The wrinkles should be ironed out soon and you'll be able to test the system out on Chaos and give us your feedback before it goes on the Live server.
Eve Community Manager
[email protected]
CCP |
Gold Brick
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:20:00 -
[7]
Pann,
Will that be industry skill or mass production skill?
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Fortoye Drak
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:22:00 -
[8]
and if both, will they stack properly (ie 5+5)
Press Liason
Big-Bang Burger Bar - Neocom Site |
Bishop Steele
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:23:00 -
[9]
Awesome. Glad to hear the current situation is going to change. I hope this includes a minor fix to actually make people pay for their slots. :)
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Drefsab
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:24:00 -
[10]
Glad to hear it Pann thanks for the reply :) I was starting to think CCP didnt look at these forums. One question though if that doesnt work will perhaps the idea of public factorys/labs be implemented?
"Death Before Dishonor" |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:25:00 -
[11]
Good news!
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Gold Brick
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:31:00 -
[12]
So if it is skill based, what about factories rented to corporations -- whose gets the skill check?
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Captain Stern
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Posted - 2003.06.25 02:58:00 -
[13]
WHY THE HELL DOES CCP KEEP LOCKING THREADS I WANT TO REPLY TO...
The people who admit they have 20 factories and 20 labs and intend to keep them need a kick in the ass, and CCP needs to do the kicking. They are the ones ruining this for other people.
You know my solution. Limit the number of factories and labs you can rent to a skill. Then they can only get a maximum of 5. Some say this won't help. HELLO. It's better than the boneheads that have 20 of each.
Wake up CCP, it's like 2 months now since release and this is a very big problem, not something that can wait till we get waypoints set up in the star map for example. Where are you priorities?
Dam people need to wake up that have 20 fac's and labs and say "Don't change it, I like the way it is", some admitting they don't even use them, and ruin it for other people. Watch who all the whiners are THEN, when the skill limits them, if it ever gets done *sigh*
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Remember, where ever you go, there you are! |
Arondos
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Posted - 2003.06.25 04:00:00 -
[14]
Give a corp slots on their HQ nobody else can use. Make the slots invisible to everyone outside the corp.
Say
10-20 members one research/factory
20-30 members two " / "
etc.
Yeah it won't be a lot but it would give every corp some slots.
Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it. |
DarkRift
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Posted - 2003.06.25 04:49:00 -
[15]
Glad to hear something is being done.
Personally, I don't think corporations should be given any factory or lab slots. Therefore, they are dependent upon their members to have the necessary skills to manufacture items. So if you really want to manufacture a lot you need to find a number of dedicated people to do it.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.25 04:54:00 -
[16]
Personally I think NPC stations should only rent slots to members of their own corporation.
But in order for something like that to happen, CCP would have to implement player owned stations as something more than a status symbol. Meaning they'd have to be in, easy to find and easy to construct for a 30+ member corporation.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.25 05:24:00 -
[17]
Capt. Stern is correct. Sounds like plain old griefing behavior to me.
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Wulfnor
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Posted - 2003.06.25 07:38:00 -
[18]
Pann,
I am glad to hear this is going to change. I have two questions abotu it though.
First will they have to pay for the slots they rent or will one payment continue to be sufficient to indefintely lock up a slot?
Second will this system of limiting slot rentals by skills apply to labs?
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Askari
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Posted - 2003.06.25 08:18:00 -
[19]
I agree with darkrift, and partly with Jash.
Skill based per character + faction standing with the station owners...
----------------
~= Askari =~
Urza's Factory
http://www.mikeward.uk.com/urzas
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.06.25 09:14:00 -
[20]
That's good news Pann! We've been suggesting that for so long that we started thinking they you (CCP in general) were not listening to our call!
This is awesome. One thing I wonder though, is if there will be a limitation per corporation, and if so how will it work? (For slots rented on behalf of the corp, using the corp's factory hangar)
Edited by: Ehxo on 25/06/2003 09:15:11
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Endureth
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Posted - 2003.06.25 09:42:00 -
[21]
Another idea is to have the slots rented just for the period it takes to finish whatever job you need done. For example, you want to build 3 cruisers, rent the slot and install the blueprints. The station will charge you a rental fee based on the amount of time you will need the slot to finish your production/research. Of course, this total price will be given to you before you hit the final accept button.
When it is completed, you stuff is popped out of the slot and it becomes open to the next person who needs to produce/build something. If you REALLY want to produce/research something else, then you need to make sure you're there when it's finished so you can rent it again. But with a system like this, everyone should be able to produce/build when they want to as there will probably be at least one open.
Now, a side effect to this would be that when corporations start owning thier own stations they will be able to set the hourly cost of renting a production/factory slot. I believe it is CCP's objective to let corps set prices for things like tis in stations they own anyway, so it actually works out, corps will not only be able to compete with prices for the items they sell but the space they rent. I know CCP was thinking of letting corps set docking fees at their stations at least.
Now, as for the skill. For every level in the skill a player can have +1 slots rented at any one time throughout the EVE universe, not at every station.
This is a good solution to me and I hope CCP takes a look at it and realizes that's it's best for the game to implement something like this. It makes the game less frustrating for your average player while making research/factory slots something that you have to work for isk to be able to afford, which is what CCP tried with the monthly rental fees but just didn't work.
Endureth
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Droo
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Posted - 2003.06.25 09:44:00 -
[22]
Will this change apply to Labs as well as factories?
If so, could you please make the Labratory Operations skill more widely available before this change goes live.
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Main
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Posted - 2003.06.25 09:47:00 -
[23]
I have been all through the universe from the venal region to fountain to stain, it is an extreme rarity to find a single free slot anywhere.
I hope that these changes can be swift and what does it mean to those people that already have 30factory slots in stations that are 80jumps from them, does it mean that they can keep them or that they will automatically lose them all or lose all but just 5. If this goes the wrong way, a lot of people will be disappointed, hopefully all of those people are the flithly little ****s who have been stealing all the slots though.
Main
Everlasting Vendetta Veteran
Member of the Stain Alliance |
Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.06.25 11:24:00 -
[24]
Cheers Pann!
The champagne corks are popping at the Innsmouth Shipping Co!
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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GALAGA
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Posted - 2003.06.25 11:34:00 -
[25]
That is a good point. How is it determined which slots you get to keep?
I have 3 Factory slots in the very exclusive FDZ-4A which I sure would hate to lose and I managed to get the first 3 there 2 weeks after the game started. I planned ahead in different areas of the map at that time and setup my strategy for my bases of operations.
I also have some in Curse and the rest are in Caldari space. Not knowing which ones that my corp gets to keep will sure set us back and destroy our whole strategy and ability to play the game.
I very much understand the scarcity of slots and of course would love to have some factories in the other races regions as well as in the north and west side of the map but of course there probably isnt much availability there.
We have labs in just 2 areas and they are running full time, as labs were the hardest to get.
A solution needs to be made, but of course We surely don't want to wakeup one morning after the patch to find that we have to packup all of out bp's and belongings to another area because CCP made the decesion for us what factories and labs we could keep and what ones we could not.
We have already had to rethink our strategy a few times and recover losses by the changes that were made.
When I rented in curse, it was in a 9.0 system and I wakeup the next day to a 0.0 system, SURPRISE!!!
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"The Light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not." |
Temerlyn
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Posted - 2003.06.25 11:35:00 -
[26]
The question i wanna ask which alot of people aren't seeing is the BP copy fiasco. People are selling copies like no tommorrow. Eventually there will be no point in having a market cause everyone can make there own stuff. So we go back to mining to make money.
Balancing is the key issue cause selling of bp copies gives smaller corp a chance to make things.
Also if you are the corp that sells copies you are crippling yourself. Wouldn't it be better to sell the ship and make money that way than selling the copy as a once off and never getting any business of them again.
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Sigma Seven
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Posted - 2003.06.25 11:48:00 -
[27]
LImiting the number of factories (and research slots) a player can have rented is a great idea with a couple of mitigating factors in mind.
Lets assume that I have a industry skill of 2. I have a home base in empire space near a noob station where I like to do my normal production runs and I have 2 slots rented there, one to make starships and one to do small runs of gear. Lets also say that I fight pirates out in 0.0 space, 30 jumps from my HQ system and I want to rent a temporary slot for a short while in order to make some ammo . If I am limited to my skill total, I can't do this.
A better idea would be to limit total factories owned by an individual by the number he can operate + 1. This leaves a bit of flexibility for those quick ammo runs in the outer systems.
And what about Corp factory slots vs individual slot? Will skill points for a corp be pooled for figuring the total number of personal slots + corp slots or will they be handled independantly?
I suggest the number of slots a corperation can own be equal to the number of members that corp has, since it appears that Corp slots will have to be handled independantly of a player's private slots. This gives a corp a presense in their manufacturing system equal to it' size.
Research labs, as a more linited resource, could be limited by total skill in using them. Unlike factories, there is little to no use for having extras in frontier regions.
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Validus
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Posted - 2003.06.25 11:52:00 -
[28]
Corp slot renting should work the same way, it should go by your skills collectively, ie 3 players have mass production 4 which means they can rent 5 slots each, totalling 15 slots.
It is to my understanding if you have industry you can use 1 slot, if you have industry and mass production level 1 then you have 2 slots, so.. its always +1 slot (for industry skill) on top of your mass production level... I hope!
One thing I am worrying about, when some rash change is made to slots, are we going to get enough notification to prepare ourselves or are we just going to get stabbed in the back again?
like numerous changes that go unmentioned and then someone has to PAY for it.
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Minsc
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Posted - 2003.06.25 12:00:00 -
[29]
And this fixes the office space problem how?
Personally I think this solution is a thrown-together one to get something out the door quickly. I just hope that it is not a final solution as it the long run it seems very poor.
Personally I hope to see a solution something like the following set up eventually.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=6930
This would solve a lot of problems with the current system providing a usefull solution for corps as well.
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.06.25 12:01:00 -
[30]
Uhmm..So..for those not able to get on within 30-60mins after downtime gets screwed? No offence. But since 1 person atm can hold 1 lab and 6 fabs max. Then what about corporation?
CoreTech owns 5labs and 5 fabs in one station. Nothing more nowhere. We gave 1fab and 1 slot to another corp.
Since we make alot of different cruisers and indies. We use the slots for a long time. And each person here and there research BPs that takes 2days and 18hours each.
So when we get online after work. Will we have 0/0 fabs/labs or from the one (me) that rented them for the corp? Then we would have 3/1 fabs/labs.
We DO use them all for our purpose. And we also gave some away for free for those needing.
But I donŠt want to come home and find us having almost nothing left or nothing at all. Just because someone beat me to it.
The first problem that should be fixed first is the billingcycles. To make factories depend on skill is merely to pee your pants. ItŠs a shortsighted event. Now you just need skill to hog them all. And if its all depend on corp. members toether for corp. slots. hell..most can rent a station full of each.
Aslong as it cost us 0 ISK to keep something rented. Then we donŠt have any dynamics in the move of slots. Cept. onetime events like this might be. Sure we take from some of the people hogging slots without skill. But we dont keep 1 person for having 6/6 tho he/she only use 1.
Fix billing first please!
And fix offices and office billing aswell and tax aswell. If EVE builds on playereconomics, then why are you working on planned NPC alike economics?
Edited by: Shintai on 25/06/2003 12:04:02
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2003.06.25 12:05:00 -
[31]
Some miss which skill grands extra slots for factories/labs.
For factories, Industry skill gives 1, only 1. Science give 1 lab, thats it. Mass production is what raises the factory count and Lab Production for labs.
And I FIRMLY believe the fact/lab camper/griefers need to loose ALL their camping, and then get what they can use, just to give them that "you've been bad" slap in the face.
Just makes sense to me.
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Cara 'Than
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Posted - 2003.06.25 12:23:00 -
[32]
Very nice... glad to hear u ppl are actually doing something to solve this issue..
thx
__________________
"Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering." |
Kerberus
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Posted - 2003.06.25 12:54:00 -
[33]
What about the limit of Office Space to 12 per station, is this going to be fixed aswell as factory slots?
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Athren Soulsteal
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:47:00 -
[34]
Pann
Please see if the Science skill can be release before requiring lab Number = Lab skill+1
I think this is a great solution but until the lab skills are avalible lots of people would lose 2 or 3 of their important labs.
When the patch changed the sec ratings of the systems we had to relocate so we released the three labs and 4 factorys of our HQ and moved.
It took 3 days to find 3 labs and 3 factories in the same base to move the HQ too. If the reqs are based on skill then no prob on the factories, could actuall get 3 more. But on the labs no one can have better than 1 (or 1+1), not because we haven't trained but because we have not been able to train.
Nobody has because the skill that would set the number of labs is not available. This needs to be fixed before and scheem that limits lab slots is inacted.
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BSOD
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Posted - 2003.06.25 13:50:00 -
[35]
Last time this came up, I don't believe slots would be unrented, the proposal was to prevent people from renewing their lease if they had too many slots.
I don't think a hard universe-wide limit based on skill is a good idea. It will hurt CCP's goal of convincing players to expand - If a player's slots are in the center of empire space, they're not going to want to move out of they can't also rent a slot in the outer regions. Few corps are willing to make a permanent move, and are like mine, spending a few days "at home" and a few days out in the middle of nowhere mining the valuable stuff. (We need to mine scord for ship production occasionally - Why mine scord in 0.0 space?)
I think it is perfectly reasonable to have the limit be on a per-region basis. This way, a player with Mass Prod 3 can rent 4 slots at home and up to 4 slots in the outer regions. Or even better would be if you can rent 4 slots in one region, and a max of 1 per region beyond that. That way we can keep our main production center, and have a slot in the nether regions for ammo and such.
Currently I own 6 slots. 4 in one area, 2 far away. Every few days I move back and forth between locations. When I'm at the location in question, I use all slots available.
Another nice thing would be the ability to sublease slots - I would pay the main rent for the slot, but I could rent out the slot for short terms to other people. To prevent griefing, make the maximum rent of a sublease be 75% or so of the original rent price, so that subleasing is always a losing proposition. (But it is better than nothing). I would readily give up my slots in the region I was not in at the time IF I knew I could regain those slots later on when I move.
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Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
Droo
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Posted - 2003.06.25 14:56:00 -
[36]
I can understand the desire to not change too much in game, as this problem will eventually disapear when player's make their own stations and add as many factory and lab facilities as they wish, but the short-term solutions still don't go far enough.
either add more labs - how about NPC corp's adding new 'experimental' labs to some of their stations - these labs exist for a limited amount of time then disapear.
Or add a new module - mobile lab/factory - and make the reqs such that only large industrials can mount the module (and only 1) - at least that way a number of ships could be converted and used until stations become commonplace.
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Isis Blackrose
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Posted - 2003.06.25 14:57:00 -
[37]
I would suggest doing something similar with corporate offices -- make the number of offices a corp can have based on the CEO skills of the CEO; ie, someone with Corp Management 5 and Megacorp Management 2 can have 7 offices, etc.
Isis Blackrose
CEO, Olympian Cooperative
http://case.cso.uiuc.edu/eve |
Madox
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Posted - 2003.06.25 15:55:00 -
[38]
Typical of CPP. Post a response that leaves a lot of questions and then bolt.
NICE!
Why even bother trying to half-ass let us know what's going on. Just do what you always do and "surprise" us with the next patch. Shuttles have 500 cargo...oh, we mean they DON'T have 500 cargo. And why is this the post they responded to? Some jack-ass greifer's post! Why not respond instead to one of the dozens of intelligent solutions to the current situation I've read.
10000 subscribers times $12.95 a month equals $129500 a month. think about it.
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Merell
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Posted - 2003.06.25 16:35:00 -
[39]
I think CCP should go back to infinite slots at all stations, I guess the current system was implemented to force people out. And that was ofcourse working for a while until the current situation developed.
But it also has a very boring side effeckt. I don't mind travel times, because the univerce is supposed to feel big. But I just wish that I didn't have to do so much traveling. Because it's so extreamly boring. And limiting slots will increase the amount of travel I have to do. For absoluty no good reason.
It also hinders healthy competition.
I say, unlimited slots and let the market sort it out. This game is supposed to be hyperkapitalism right?
Atleast it should possible to buy new slots. Are you saying that there can only be 16 slots in an entire solarsystem? How big are those factories anyway?
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:03:00 -
[40]
I agree wholeheartedly with Penn's concept, rip those eccess slots from the hoggers!
Do the same with recearch slots.
I would prefer the version when you only rent slots for the duration of the construction/recearch as it would give anyone a chance to get a slot at any time (we have to think of the people who start playing in six months too you know) in any station, the ability to indefinentely hold a slot is a crude tool considering the vision of the game, but for now I will be more then happy to see a quick fix that clamps down on the most imediate problem, the hoggers.
As for what slots people and corps get to keep (I sure hope corps will be limited by the same skill as lone players are AND that you cant doubble up with one set in the corp and one as an individual), it would be very simple to administer, as is you have to pay bills for the slots every 3 days, just syncronize one such billing giving you bills from each and every slot, factory or recearch. if you are allowed to keep 5 slots then the first 5 you pay the bill for are kept, all others go back to the open market.
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Gustavef
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Posted - 2003.06.25 18:21:00 -
[41]
I am against any strong universal limit on the number of factories that can be own by one person/corp. I would be okay with per station/region limits based on skill, depending on those limits.
Yes, there should be ways of limiting one person from buying out a whole system of factories, but don't hurt those of us who do rotate though our factories to produce goods in different markets.
Also we should be allowed to buy factories that we can not use today but can use later. Allow us to plan for our growth.
-gustavef
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.06.25 19:17:00 -
[42]
I bet you would be of a completely different view if you a were in a position when there were no slots to get.
The point is I dont want to get at people who use the slots they have, those are not the problem, if you are able to use 8 slots, have 8 slots then nothing will change as compared with the version Penn is describing.
The problem is the people like the original poster that seems to gloat in the fact that there is a great shortage of slots and he has 20 slots out of wich he has only once used one.
My bet is he has max rank 1 in the industry skill.
So there are 2 solutions, ither make slots so plentyfull that despite the playerbase tenfolding there will still be slots open all over the universe or the number of slots each player or corp can use is limited by skill.
On the plus side of having it skill based is that if your corp only owns what it can use and all other corps do the same then when you wish to expand slots will be available, as is only the original corps have a chance of expanding as they have most of the slots.
It might seem fair if you are part of one of the original corps... but in reality I pay as much as anyone and thus I should have the same chances as anyone else at having fun and doing what I want.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.25 19:58:00 -
[43]
I've got 2 factory slots at the moment. I've got the skills to use them. I've got blueprints I'd like to use in them to produce ammo for sale but can't as they're all unresearched and I've yet to find a research slot availible.
Players shouldn't have the right to control the assets of NPC corporations, denying their use unless you pay them first. After all, isn't this part of the arguement being used against MOo and the pirates? That they don't have the right to deny access to Empire resources unless rendered payment?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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