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lovebus Black Guards Hades. 0	Posted - 2012.06.22 22:06:00 - [1] - Quote As the casual observer i see a fundamental problem in the railgun/ artillery relationship. Art seems to be holding all the cards in sniper warfare because of alpha ability. What is CCP's response to this? make a t3 BC that can alpha with railgun. what a ****** solution. make 2 weapon systems that do the same thing? As much as ccp goes on about ships that "barrage" enemies from long range therre doesnt seem like a practical aplication for that. MY PROPOSAL: implement a mechanic where something detrimental and stackable will happen everytime somebody is shot with any sort of weapon system but give it a short duration. that way slower firing systems wont see the effects of this mechanic because by the time it fires again the debuff will have expired but faster firing weapons like auto cannons will continue to stack and make a real differance. through this mechanic we could have railguns providing actual suppressive fire while artillery does the heavy lifting. debuff suggestions include: very minor speed reduction, cap recharge rate reduction, fire rate reduction, tracking reduction, sensor dampening. so what do you think. could we make railguns useful without breaking the game?
Detenal Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow 6	Posted - 2012.06.22 22:18:00 - [2] - Quote No. The way the system is now is fine. If you think they are underpowered then simply fix the numbers involved to have better ratios.
Veronica Kerrigan Hand Of Midas My Other Laboratory is a Distillery 31	Posted - 2012.06.22 22:30:00 - [3] - Quote So I ungroup my artillery, get the bonus anyways, and flood the server with 8 times as many calculations as if I had them in one group... I see how this works well, I promise
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Inglorious Waffles 100	Posted - 2012.06.22 23:37:00 - [4] - Quote Rails hold an advantage over arty in that they have significantly better damage projection, and their T2 ammo doesn't care too much if the ship is shield or armor tanked. (T2 proj ammo fires explosive damage, which is less effective against many shield setups) They also have higher tracking and ROF. A tracking-bonused railgun ship with javelin isn't too terribly different from an AC ship with a falloff bonus, believe it or not. Triple rep Myrms are like what you'd get if you strapped a beehive to Robocop.
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 861	Posted - 2012.06.23 01:36:00 - [5] - Quote Veronica Kerrigan wrote: So I ungroup my artillery, get the bonus anyways, and flood the server with 8 times as many calculations as if I had them in one group... I see how this works well, I promise No same number of calculations. The benefit comes from only having to issue one module activation command.
Unimaginative Guy Dutch Squad Chained Reactions 15	Posted - 2012.06.23 02:08:00 - [6] - Quote No, this would be bad. Very bad. Guns arent supposed to put affects on the target, that is what ewar is for. And in Alpha fleets your proposed rail changes would still be useless. The target would be dead before it got 1 stack of the ewar effect.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 2035	Posted - 2012.06.23 02:35:00 - [7] - Quote Alpha Fleets aren't snipers. They operate at like 30km. Sniper fleets operate a little (almost 10x) farther out. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 505	Posted - 2012.06.23 02:36:00 - [8] - Quote lovebus wrote: As the casual observer i see a fundamental problem in the railgun/ artillery relationship. Art seems to be holding all the cards in sniper warfare because of alpha ability. What is CCP's response to this? make a t3 BC that can alpha with railgun. You should become less casual in your observation. Rokhs are comparable to Maelstroms in terms of turrets while also being much tankier. Nagas are superior snipers to Tornadoes and as numbers increase the advantage of a Naga over a Tornado becomes larger and larger.
Rip Marley Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.06.23 03:11:00 - [9] - Quote It's always been my opinion that rails should have the highest DPS of all the long ranged weapons, since they use cap AND ammo without being able to change damage types. They would be the middle ground on range and accuracy Arty would still the best alpha snd variable damage types while being capless but suffer from having the lowest sustained DPS and worst accuracy. Lazors would have the best range and accuracy, while being able to change crystals to suit the engagement range on the fly. Their cap sucks but they use no ammo. They would be the middle ground on DPS
Bill Serkoff2 Tachyon Technology 16	Posted - 2012.06.23 03:39:00 - [10] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Alpha Fleets aren't snipers. They operate at like 30km. Sniper fleets operate a little (almost 10x) farther out. And are completely irrelevant because of quickscan mechanics and warp-in.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 2035	Posted - 2012.06.23 03:43:00 - [11] - Quote Bill Serkoff2 wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Alpha Fleets aren't snipers. They operate at like 30km. Sniper fleets operate a little (almost 10x) farther out. And are completely irrelevant because of quickscan mechanics and warp-in. And that relates to ROF... how? OP is suggesting that Alpha fleets are snipers. They are not. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody.
Bill Serkoff2 Tachyon Technology 16	Posted - 2012.06.23 04:09:00 - [12] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Bill Serkoff2 wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Alpha Fleets aren't snipers. They operate at like 30km. Sniper fleets operate a little (almost 10x) farther out. And are completely irrelevant because of quickscan mechanics and warp-in. And that relates to ROF... how? OP is suggesting that Alpha fleets are snipers. They are not. Just noting how sniper fleets don't quite exist, so one could easily mistake alpha fleets in their place.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 2035	Posted - 2012.06.23 04:12:00 - [13] - Quote Bill Serkoff2 wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Bill Serkoff2 wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Alpha Fleets aren't snipers. They operate at like 30km. Sniper fleets operate a little (almost 10x) farther out. And are completely irrelevant because of quickscan mechanics and warp-in. And that relates to ROF... how? OP is suggesting that Alpha fleets are snipers. They are not. Just noting how sniper fleets don't quite exist, so one could easily mistake alpha fleets in their place. But they work at the same rangers that Hellcats do. RailRokhs, Thundercats, Slowcats, and IshtarCats (don't remember their cat name atm) are the current snipers of the fleet game. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody.
Exploited Engineer Creatively Applied Violence Inc. 49	Posted - 2012.06.23 07:42:00 - [14] - Quote lovebus wrote: MY PROPOSAL: implement a mechanic where something detrimental and stackable will happen everytime somebody is shot with any sort of weapon system but give it a short duration. The advantage of a higher ROF (at the same DPS) is losing less damage to overkill. Very relevant in PvE, but fairly irrelevant in PvP.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 2037	Posted - 2012.06.23 08:03:00 - [15] - Quote Exploited Engineer wrote: lovebus wrote: MY PROPOSAL: implement a mechanic where something detrimental and stackable will happen everytime somebody is shot with any sort of weapon system but give it a short duration. The advantage of a higher ROF (at the same DPS) is losing less damage to overkill. Very relevant in PvE, but fairly irrelevant in PvP. Ahahahahaha. Losing DPS to overkill isn't relevant to PvP. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody.
Vilnius Zar Ordo Ardish 70	Posted - 2012.06.23 08:07:00 - [16] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Exploited Engineer wrote: lovebus wrote: MY PROPOSAL: implement a mechanic where something detrimental and stackable will happen everytime somebody is shot with any sort of weapon system but give it a short duration. The advantage of a higher ROF (at the same DPS) is losing less damage to overkill. Very relevant in PvE, but fairly irrelevant in PvP. Ahahahahaha. Losing DPS to overkill isn't relevant to PvP. Did you actually read what he stated? Amat victoria curam.
Copine Callmeknau Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns 197	Posted - 2012.06.23 09:01:00 - [17] - Quote lol suppressing fire Lemme just load the 12G Frag into my rails There should be a rather awesome pic here
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 206	Posted - 2012.06.23 09:48:00 - [18] - Quote i have a better idea: let's make all weapon systems exactly equal in every way so that there is no situation where one is better than the other. the balance will be awesome. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Dave stark Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore 40	Posted - 2012.06.23 13:01:00 - [19] - Quote rate of fire is important. it directly relates to fleet size. if you have a large fleet, take ships with faster rate of fire. obviously the faster rate of fire provides lower alpha but that's made up by the fact you have more ships. hence if you have a large fleet, take things with faster rate of fire so you can insta-pop ships faster. got a small fleet, take slow firing higher alpha ships. got a massive fleet, take faster firing lower alpha ships. both fleets will instapop any target, the bigger fleet will just do it faster. if the smaller fleet tried to do this they wouldn't instapop anything.
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 309	Posted - 2012.06.23 13:14:00 - [20] - Quote Detenal wrote: No. The way the system is now is fine. It's better than before for sure, but it's still not interesting for other purpose than fit Nagas ans kill cruisers at 250km in a blink of an eye with ten Nagas. But if you want to do it faster just fit 3 or 4 1400 T2 hotwizer Maels and look the dam thing go like pouf in one salvo. Amazingly my Maelstrom can shoot his shortest range ammo and put 14K holes at over 100km. At that distance a shield Megathron (full gank mods) shooting anti-matter is just doing 1/5th of I can do with Mael. Gallente need 725mm sized guns to compete with 1400 or Tachs, and Med size Rails need at least 375mm and 50% reduction PG/cap requirements to get useful some day. And OP: NO Over 3 years of posts to get a better stuff than the crap we had, yep ROF got lowered but now even thou rails are far from excellent large/small rails got better and can fill a f++cking niche now. Plz stop trying to make them the crap they were before, they're already the highest ROF of all long range weapon systems, they don't need more ROF, they need either ammo number tweaks or increase slightly their base dmg to get a little bit more alpha, no need to increase 20 or whatever per cent, a little 5% to large rails alpha increase and decrease small ones for same amount would be a good stuff (small rails are just omgfpwn and do too much dmg, decrease 5% wouldn't hurt them) brb
Veronica Kerrigan Hand Of Midas My Other Laboratory is a Distillery 31	Posted - 2012.06.23 16:46:00 - [21] - Quote Corina Jarr wrote: Veronica Kerrigan wrote: So I ungroup my artillery, get the bonus anyways, and flood the server with 8 times as many calculations as if I had them in one group... I see how this works well, I promise No same number of calculations. The benefit comes from only having to issue one module activation command. False, sir. When your weapons are grouped, the server does a calculation for one gun, and applies it to all of the guns in the group.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 2039	Posted - 2012.06.23 17:39:00 - [22] - Quote Vilnius Zar wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Exploited Engineer wrote: lovebus wrote: MY PROPOSAL: implement a mechanic where something detrimental and stackable will happen everytime somebody is shot with any sort of weapon system but give it a short duration. The advantage of a higher ROF (at the same DPS) is losing less damage to overkill. Very relevant in PvE, but fairly irrelevant in PvP. Ahahahahaha. Losing DPS to overkill isn't relevant to PvP. Did you actually read what he stated? Yeah, I did. The idea that losing DPS to overkill isn't relevant to PvP is laughable. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody.
Arthello D00M. Northern Coalition. 9	Posted - 2012.06.23 20:56:00 - [23] - Quote I think it's great to have different flavours. If all the guns and ships had the same characteristics EVE would be a poorer game. The hybrid buff was long overdue though. Rails and blasters are finally viable for PvP again.

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