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Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.23 09:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
There I was stealing from wrecks and I get shot by a Raven. Try to put up a fight, but lose my cheapo fit T1 cruiser. So far business as usual. Returning to the site (the mark having docked to run the timer down) I find a wreck and warp disrupt it. I'm well inside the timer, no warning, no problem. I sit there disrupting this wreck for about 5 minutes. Finally, I think, ok that'll do, either this'll work or it won't.
I click to warp to station ... "Your warp drive is disabled..." Um. What's that now?
Two CONCORD chaps turn up quick smart and put me in a pod. No warning at any point. Not when I start disrupting and at no point during. Of relevance to the mechanic, I suspect, is that I had seen the mark back in space on d-scan as CONCORD were showing up. Something about that makes me think the mechanic has changed recently and the act of the pilot undocking may have caused some sort of flag reset.
Urrgh. Anyone else had this? Anyone want to try it out between alts to confirm? |
Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.23 11:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
UPDATE: had no sec status loss from the CONCORD involvement. Isn't that impossible? |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Cold Hand of Shadow
123
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pretty sure scramming a wreck to extend aggro is a bug in and of itself. So really, you were killed by a bug within a bug. Inception? |
Arcturus Archangel
Sons of Michael
11
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bugception.
I will rule this sector or see it burnt to ashes around me... |
Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Pretty sure scramming a wreck to extend aggro is a bug in and of itself. So really, you were killed by a bug within a bug. Inception?
I suppose it is, but is pretty well known. I don't think CCP can blame us for playing right to the corners of the sandbox. What's weird is that it let me attack the wreck for several minutes, then decided I deserved CONCORD at the point when I decided to stop and warp. It felt to me like my decision to warp could have been the trigger, like the server's done a "is this guy allowed to warp?" check which cascaded into CONCORD turning up.
Really odd. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
676
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 18:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Congratulations, you just encountered some of CCP Greyscale's wonderful "back end aggression changes" that form the foundation of the questionably thought out and entirely pointless crimewatch revisions.
This is the result of shooting objects that don't have players in them not giving you proper aggression timers, in the future where individual aggression timers won't exist you can look forward to even more situations in which you get concorded with no warning. |
Sleepy The Dwarf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.06.24 19:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
i have used that tactic many times in past, but not since last expansion it may have changed will have to do some research to see. |
Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.24 21:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Congratulations, you just encountered some of CCP Greyscale's wonderful "back end aggression changes" that form the foundation of the questionably thought out and entirely pointless crimewatch revisions.
This is the result of shooting objects that don't have players in them not giving you proper aggression timers, in the future where individual aggression timers won't exist you can look forward to even more situations in which you get concorded with no warning.
Ugh. 
I feel an extended testing session on Sisi coming on.  |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1825
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Posted - 2012.06.25 15:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Congratulations, you just encountered some of CCP Greyscale's wonderful "back end aggression changes" that form the foundation of the questionably thought out and entirely pointless crimewatch revisions.
This is the result of shooting objects that don't have players in them not giving you proper aggression timers, in the future where individual aggression timers won't exist you can look forward to even more situations in which you get concorded with no warning.
CrimeWatch is going to be such a joke if they don't greatly improve the concept over what they originally announced :(
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
677
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 16:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
The entire thing is inherently flawed because of the intention to remove individual flagging.
Individual flagging being the only thing keeping you from being concorded if the initial condition that allows you to shoot at a person changes.
So look forward to being concorded when shooting someone who corp hops, or when shooting someone right at the end of a war or when aggression naturally expires. The individual timers are the only thing that makes combat in highsec work properly and the entire focus of the crimewarch changes is to remove individual flagging. |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2062
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Posted - 2012.06.25 18:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yep, I recently got shot down by station guns after shooting a WT POS extended a GCC in LS.
Crimewatch is gonna be well designed and without glaring design defects. 
This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Cold Hand of Shadow
124
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Posted - 2012.06.25 19:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Crimewatch is gonna be well designed and without glaring design defects.
This reflects all aspects of EVE. It is never broken or designed with terrible math holes.
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Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 20:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Yep, I recently got shot down by station guns after shooting a WT POS extended a GCC in LS.
Mental. Could some of you ask around your piratey/ninja salvagey buddies to keep an eye on this and report in here. We really do need to build a clear picture. I have had some GM communication on this, which indicated that my situation was perfectly normal and part of proper aggression mechanics now, but made it no clearer than that. I think we'll have to write our own test cases and do them to get to grips with this completely.
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CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons
Silver Dragonz
14
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Posted - 2012.06.25 20:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maybe things are working as intended?
Perhaps a group of rogue CONCORD pilots decided to grief who they thought was a Carebear Mission Runner?
Perhaps the station guns were controlled by a band of merry pirates who's ships were in the docks being repaired, and they saw opportunity?
Maybe Crimewatch and Aggression counters are totally being manipulated by someone who's simply out to take free potshots at pilots because 'Why the hell not?'
...or, of course, it could indeed all be broken. But when is that ever new, or interesting? |
Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 20:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
CorInaXeraL wrote:Maybe things are working as intended?
...or, of course, it could indeed all be broken. But when is that ever new, or interesting?
Why attribute to malice... etc etc
It could be broken, but if we know how it's broken, it might actually be a good thing, know what I mean? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2065
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 20:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nannageddon wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Yep, I recently got shot down by station guns after shooting a WT POS extended a GCC in LS.
Mental. Could some of you ask around your piratey/ninja salvagey buddies to keep an eye on this and report in here. We really do need to build a clear picture. I have had some GM communication on this, which indicated that my situation was perfectly normal and part of proper aggression mechanics now, but made it no clearer than that. I think we'll have to write our own test cases and do them to get to grips with this completely.
I got my ship back. Huh.
This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
MinefieldS
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.06.25 23:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Did you scram a yellow wreck and then he abandoned his wrecks and it became blue? afaik agroing a blue wreck will get you concorded, unless the wreck was a player's ship that got concorded |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
680
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Posted - 2012.06.26 00:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nannageddon wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Yep, I recently got shot down by station guns after shooting a WT POS extended a GCC in LS.
Mental. Could some of you ask around your piratey/ninja salvagey buddies to keep an eye on this and report in here. We really do need to build a clear picture. I have had some GM communication on this, which indicated that my situation was perfectly normal and part of proper aggression mechanics now, but made it no clearer than that. I think we'll have to write our own test cases and do them to get to grips with this completely.
Under no circumstances is getting concorded without warning ever legitimate. Particularly given that you can't even disable the concord warning in highsec anymore. GMs, particularly low level GMs are typically morons who don't understand what the game mechanics are or what their policies are. Always ask for your petition to be elevated to a senior GM, it's the only way you'll ever get it looked at by someone who knows what they're doing. |
ShipToaster
169
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Posted - 2012.06.26 03:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
You get a concord warning confirm action box when you try to shoot someone elses wreck if you are fleeted with them. Not sure why you are not getting it.
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Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.26 13:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
MinefieldS wrote:Did you scram a yellow wreck and then he abandoned his wrecks and it became blue? afaik agroing a blue wreck will get you concorded, unless the wreck was a player's ship that got concorded
It was a yellow wreck belonging to the aggressed player. It was not blue and the other player was not on grid to abandon anyway.
It seems a bit off that you'd be free to destroy an abandoned wreck by salvaging it, but if you shoot it then you get CC'd. From an RP perspective, what possible interest would they have in doing that?
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Under no circumstances is getting concorded without warning ever legitimate. Particularly given that you can't even disable the concord warning in highsec anymore. GMs, particularly low level GMs are typically morons who don't understand what the game mechanics are or what their policies are. Always ask for your petition to be elevated to a senior GM, it's the only way you'll ever get it looked at by someone who knows what they're doing.
I prefer not to discuss GM comms as it pisses them off and is against the rules. I'll just say that I'm satisfied with the outcome.
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Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.26 13:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
ShipToaster wrote:You get a concord warning confirm action box when you try to shoot someone elses wreck if you are fleeted with them. Not sure why you are not getting it.
The action which prompted CC was, apparently, my deactivation of an aggressive module on the wreck after agro timer had expired. (Yes, me too.) |
15th Century Portrait
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.06.26 17:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Nannageddon wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Yep, I recently got shot down by station guns after shooting a WT POS extended a GCC in LS.
Mental. Could some of you ask around your piratey/ninja salvagey buddies to keep an eye on this and report in here. We really do need to build a clear picture. I have had some GM communication on this, which indicated that my situation was perfectly normal and part of proper aggression mechanics now, but made it no clearer than that. I think we'll have to write our own test cases and do them to get to grips with this completely. I got my ship back. Huh.
ccp treats you like they're pimps. one minute they love you, one mintue they hate you. they smack you in the face and then buy you a pretty dress. |
Renier Gaden
Exanimo Inc
Hedonistic Imperative
10
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Posted - 2012.06.26 18:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nannageddon wrote:ShipToaster wrote:You get a concord warning confirm action box when you try to shoot someone elses wreck if you are fleeted with them. Not sure why you are not getting it. The action which prompted CC was, apparently, my deactivation of an aggressive module on the wreck after agro timer had expired. (Yes, me too.)
Kind of like stepping on a land mine then. It is not pushing the button that kills you, it is when you stop pushing it.... |
Flakey Foont
166
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Posted - 2012.06.26 20:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
15th Century Portrait wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Nannageddon wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Yep, I recently got shot down by station guns after shooting a WT POS extended a GCC in LS.
Mental. Could some of you ask around your piratey/ninja salvagey buddies to keep an eye on this and report in here. We really do need to build a clear picture. I have had some GM communication on this, which indicated that my situation was perfectly normal and part of proper aggression mechanics now, but made it no clearer than that. I think we'll have to write our own test cases and do them to get to grips with this completely. I got my ship back. Huh. ccp treats you like they're pimps. one minute they love you, one mintue they hate you. they smack you in the face and then buy you a pretty dress.
Must be tough. |
Janus Varg
Smoke Jaguars
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 02:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Renier Gaden wrote:Nannageddon wrote:ShipToaster wrote:You get a concord warning confirm action box when you try to shoot someone elses wreck if you are fleeted with them. Not sure why you are not getting it. The action which prompted CC was, apparently, my deactivation of an aggressive module on the wreck after agro timer had expired. (Yes, me too.) Kind of like stepping on a land mine then. It is not pushing the button that kills you, it is when you stop pushing it....
I don't think that actually works, but if you ever step on one it probably couldn't make things much worse to try.
Makes me wonder what happens if you wait for the wreck to vanish... on one hand, the module will deactivate. On the other hand, there is no wreck. Or even if you just fly out of range...
Not that I mean to find out, but if someone wants to figure it out with an ibis or something. |
Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 09:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Janus Varg wrote:
Not that I mean to find out, but if someone wants to figure it out with an ibis or something.
Sisi's the place to do it I suppose. There's lots of weird edge cases to try. What if you ctrl+q? Does it matter where the target is, or what session changes have happened to you/them? The lack of visible timers in this one bites the other way of course, which is in a way, fair. That said, it would appear extension of agro through shooting of wrecks is now gone, so the whole mechanic is missing from play now - you just get CC'd for trying it for too long - with no warning and no sec loss. |
Alex Thule
Altus Ventures
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 09:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think u managed to encounter the Boomerang tactic that was patched a few months back to stop people one shot kill other pilots and then warp away. They could do this a few times if they plan it right so they got a few kills withought being Concordokened for the 1st kill.
So as soon as you pressed warp it triggered the new mechanic. |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Cold Hand of Shadow
129
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Posted - 2012.06.28 12:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Alex Thule wrote:I think u managed to encounter the Boomerang tactic that was patched a few months back to stop people one shot kill other pilots and then warp away. They could do this a few times if they plan it right so they got a few kills withought being Concordokened for the 1st kill.
So as soon as you pressed warp it triggered the new mechanic.
What. His situation has nothing to do with the boomerang maneuver except that concord showed up in the end, and in this case concord shouldn`t have. It`s like you focused on "I couldn't warp" and stopped reading. |
Nannageddon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 13:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alex Thule wrote: ...to stop people one shot kill other pilots and then warp away.
Yes, it does seem to relate to that, in that it featured the warp drive being disabled. It's the cause of that which is confusing. Anyone got any test results? |
Alex Thule
Altus Ventures
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 21:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Alex Thule wrote:I think u managed to encounter the Boomerang tactic that was patched a few months back to stop people one shot kill other pilots and then warp away. They could do this a few times if they plan it right so they got a few kills withought being Concordokened for the 1st kill.
So as soon as you pressed warp it triggered the new mechanic. What. His situation has nothing to do with the boomerang maneuver except that concord showed up in the end, and in this case concord shouldn`t have. It`s like you focused on "I couldn't warp" and stopped reading.
Guess again |
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
691
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Posted - 2012.06.28 21:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
My guess is that you're an idiot. |
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