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Direstorm
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Posted - 2010.01.09 10:28:00 -
[1]
Hey,
I have T2 tanking skills, but rather mediocre hybrid, missile, and drone skills (I get t2 hobs but t1 ogres).
I'm about to start training Racial Cruiser 5 as the last prereq for my first HAC, and I was wondering whether people generally prefered an Ishtar or a Sacrilege?
I plan to do the following with it, both solo and as part of a small gang (2-10 people)
-Level 5 missions (with at least 3 other people)
-PVP
-Wormhole diving, class 1-3
-Level 3-4 missions (usually solo)
-Frigate Football (maybe)
Currently I'm leaning towards the Sacrilege because Amarr Cruiser 5 also unlocks Guardian and Legion--by the same logic, Gallente Cruiser 5 would unlock the Gallente logistics ship and strategic cruiser.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.01.09 11:19:00 -
[2]
Ishtar.
But first train T2 Heavy drones and maybe T2 sentry drones, as without at least one, the ship is pretty useless.
The Sacrilege is easily one of the worst HACs. It's problem lies mainly in the fact its a close range ship, putting it in the same category as a Deimos. The fact it has 5 lows also means it has to chose if it wants to be made of glass, or do less damage doesn't help either.
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Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.01.09 11:20:00 -
[3]
The two ships are very similar and you surmise the situation pretty well yourself. Sac has less range than the ishtar and less versatile damage, though managing the ishtars drones in pvp is not easy.
With regard to getting t2 weapons for it, the sac should be faster (t2 heavy assaults vs. t2 heavy drones/sentries).
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Direstorm
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Posted - 2010.01.09 22:20:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Direstorm on 09/01/2010 22:22:19
Edited by: Direstorm on 09/01/2010 22:21:08
Artemis--
It's true that the Deimos does more damage. But I'm not asking about Deimos vs Sacrilege and here's why:
The Deimos has 6 lows, 3 mids, 350 cpu and 950 pg, and its resists are distributed 50/10/83.75/67.5
The Sacrilege has 5 lows, 4 mids, 400 cpu and 1030 pg, and its resists are distributed 50/80/62.5/35, with an additional automatic bonus of 25% to each resist (which I'm too lazy to calculate right now) and an additional bonus of 5% recharge rate per HAC level.
As a straightforward PVP boat the Deimos comes out ahead, in my opinion; it sacrifices tank for damage but its inherent resists are geared to make it very tough towards the most common damage types (Therm/Kin) and it gets a huge bonus to damage and a very nice MWD bonus.
However, I'm not going to be flying a straightforward PVP boat. I'm going to be fighting NPC rats and Sleepers in addition to a small amount of occasional PVP. Since tank is generally more important in PVE than damage is, and the Sacrilege can mount a much better tank, I'd rather have the sacrilege than the deimos.
What I am asking after is sacrilege or ishtar--on the one hand, sacrilege gets a better tank, on the other hand Ishtar tends to be more flexible overall--and flexible is good.
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Intigo
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.09 22:51:00 -
[5]
Ishtar is an amazing ship. Sacrilege is pretty mediocre.
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Acathan
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Posted - 2010.01.09 23:25:00 -
[6]
If you want to do wormholes, the best of those 2 ships is the sac, as the sleepers will eat the others drones, other then that the Ishtar is probably better
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Exitar Stormscion
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Posted - 2010.01.10 05:54:00 -
[7]
Ishtar is better for :
Rating
Missions
Long range PVP
Exploration / WH
Sacrilage is better for
Close range PVP.
PVE Ishtar is better
PVP Ishtar better for long range , for close range Sacrilage is better.
You have to add into account that Zealot is great ship and is generaly better then Deimos. But again you cross compared them ... Ishtar should be compared to Zealot and Deimos to Sac.
If you look and compare HACs generaly amarr is slightly more usefull for PVP and for PVE galante is better.
Mortal in body
Eternal in will. |
Salen Kane
Amarr
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
Blade.
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Posted - 2010.01.12 09:40:00 -
[8]
Dont forget that training amarr cruiser 5 opens up the curse, as recon 4 isn't that time consuming. The curse is a pretty good ship for PvP and can be decent for PvE as well.
WITH THE SKILLS YOU MENTION, the curse is a very good option as it uses medium drones which you already have. The ishtar is obviously a superior drone boat, but as previously mentioned it relies on T2 sentries or heavies (dont even try it without these), which can be quite time consuming to train.
Real men dont kiss and tell, we **** and exaggerate!
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Dawsod
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Posted - 2010.01.12 13:07:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Salen Kane
Dont forget that training amarr cruiser 5 opens up the curse, as recon 4 isn't that time consuming. The curse is a pretty good ship for PvP and can be decent for PvE as well.
I have actually done this except in a reverse order. I am gallente, i had good armor/cap/drone skills so i trained recons and amarr cruiser V. Now I find myself with the ability to fly HACs but bad gunnery/missile skills (and cant use T2 heavies/sentries either).
I've ended up deciding to train gallente cruiser V as well and train up T2 heavies (T2 hybrids eventually). This will also open the door for the arazu.
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Beltantis Torrence
Groovy Guns
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Posted - 2010.01.12 14:11:00 -
[10]
I can fly both and I much prefer the ishtar. That being said its a lot more skillpoint intensive than the sacrilege is however, the sacrilege is "wasted" skillpoints (its the only Amarr ship you'd want to put HAMs on other than the damnation). I'd go for the ishtar, t2 sentries/heavies then make sure you get gallente bs to 4 for the dominix.
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Tekutep
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Posted - 2010.01.12 15:18:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tekutep on 12/01/2010 15:21:05
Actually, you can also put HAM's on a legion with the right subsystem. And, if you do both races, you can put HAM's on a lacheisis.
Another option for the Ishtar is to use faction drones until you train T2 drones. They're pretty darn expensive, but can carry you through til you get the T2's.
Between all your choices, I'd go with a zealot or sacrilege for sleepers. The ishtar is going to have its drones eaten by sleepers - they love to target drones. The sacrilege has to get up close, so that will only work on about half the sleepers - many sleepers like to fight at 30km+, but you'll do well against the cruisers/frigates.
Then for PvP I'd go with the sacrilege if you want to do close-range PvP or a zealot for sniping, or an ishtar does good sniping too (using said faction drones in your case).
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Maindo
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Posted - 2010.01.14 03:37:00 -
[12]
I'll be honast, i havnt done much sleeper killing in wormholes. but using sentry drones killing sleepers and just pulling them in when/if they take aggro work just as well?
Just orbit the sentry drones in range to pick them up and then just redeploy?
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Taross
Caldari
People with Guns
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.01.14 10:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
I can fly both and I much prefer the ishtar. That being said its a lot more skillpoint intensive than the sacrilege is however, the sacrilege is "wasted" skillpoints (its the only Amarr ship you'd want to put HAMs on other than the damnation). I'd go for the ishtar, t2 sentries/heavies then make sure you get gallente bs to 4 for the dominix.
And, on a Damnation, any highslot module that's not an Armored Warfare Mod is for decoration/killmail whoring purposes only...
But, well, while I agree the Ishtar is a nice ship if you've got enough drone skills, on average the Amarr t2 cruisers are just BETTER... The Zealot, king of sniper HACS. The guardian, always welcome in RR BS gangs, and not a bad ship for wormhole fleets... Their recons are pretty nice for solo/small gang PvP. Overall, I say Amarr Cruiser is more worth your time...
But, for the specific question the OP asks: If you're willing to put a lot of time in drone skills as well, the Ishtar is probably the better ship.
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gamertrav
Blackwater USA Inc.
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.01.15 06:16:00 -
[14]
Edited by: gamertrav on 15/01/2010 06:17:26
Shield Ishtar is amazing for both plexes and pvp. In fact my pvp and plexing fits are almost identical (just fit resists instead of tackle).
Dual rep ishtar/sac can soak up a huge amount of dmg 1v1 or 1v2, but active tanking has it's problems. Neuts kill you very quickly, and the extremely small buffer means you pretty much insta-pop to any heavy dps/volley dmg.
Even if you are going to go dual-rep on the ishtar/sac, i'd still recommend the ishtar as it does a lot more damage. Sac does less than 300DPS with no dmg mods/rigs (only 5 low slots), while ishtar does over 500 with Ogre IIs. Ishtar also has an extra utility med slot and much better range than HAMs
Against sleepers I'm not sure how well the ishtar would fair though. They eat drones faster than a fat kid eats cake. The sentries idea might work, but I haven't actually tried it.
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