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Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:16:00 - [1] Hi All, Im running a armour tanked apoc and was wondering if it would be possible for a shield tanked raven to take me down in a 1v1 situation. Below is my setup 6 x megapulses, 2 x seige launchers, 4 cap rechargers in med slots (some named) 3 x 50% hardners (Thermal, explosive and kinetic) 2 x large accomodation repairers (720 repair every 15 secs, 12 with skills per mod) 2x cap power relays. I can run my hardeners/repairers and guns forever without worrying about cap. Even if he could get through my tanking would i be able to take him down before hand. I use 6 wasp drones too. Just wondering as ive heard a lot about the damage potential of the raven and have yet to test it out.
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:16:00 - [2] Hi All, Im running a armour tanked apoc and was wondering if it would be possible for a shield tanked raven to take me down in a 1v1 situation. Below is my setup 6 x megapulses, 2 x seige launchers, 4 cap rechargers in med slots (some named) 3 x 50% hardners (Thermal, explosive and kinetic) 2 x large accomodation repairers (720 repair every 15 secs, 12 with skills per mod) 2x cap power relays. I can run my hardeners/repairers and guns forever without worrying about cap. Even if he could get through my tanking would i be able to take him down before hand. I use 6 wasp drones too. Just wondering as ive heard a lot about the damage potential of the raven and have yet to test it out.
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:18:00 - [3] use smartbombs, and you will win :D just dont get too close, smarties and drones "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:18:00 - [4] use smartbombs, and you will win :D just dont get too close, smarties and drones "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:20:00 - [5] wouldnt my smarties kill my drones?
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:20:00 - [6] wouldnt my smarties kill my drones?
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:25:00 - [7] Edited by: Liquid Metal on 22/11/2004 14:29:22 Edited by: Liquid Metal on 22/11/2004 14:27:54 set the drones on him first, you will kill a raven at long range, they are mid/short range ships, he will run once his shields are gone if you are careful, you should be able to do it without drones, but caldari ships hate drones, so 35-40km seems fine, just stay at range "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:25:00 - [8] Edited by: Liquid Metal on 22/11/2004 14:29:22 Edited by: Liquid Metal on 22/11/2004 14:27:54 set the drones on him first, you will kill a raven at long range, they are mid/short range ships, he will run once his shields are gone if you are careful, you should be able to do it without drones, but caldari ships hate drones, so 35-40km seems fine, just stay at range "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:29:00 - [9] get tech II cap recharges and swap one for 20km scrambler..... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:29:00 - [10] get tech II cap recharges and swap one for 20km scrambler..... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Bad'Boy get tech II cap recharges and swap one for 20km scrambler..... I was thinking about doing this as ive just finished energy systems lvl 5 too, i was tempted to either put a warp disruptor or tracking comp on..
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Bad'Boy get tech II cap recharges and swap one for 20km scrambler..... I was thinking about doing this as ive just finished energy systems lvl 5 too, i was tempted to either put a warp disruptor or tracking comp on..
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:36:00 - [13] forget the tracking comp, it wont help you to hit enemy bs, they hit bs just fine without tracking enchancements "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:36:00 - [14] forget the tracking comp, it wont help you to hit enemy bs, they hit bs just fine without tracking enchancements "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
hatchette	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:39:00 - [15] you'll be able to tank a raven if your skills are good enough. (repair systems and cap skills) Problem might pose a raven with 5 ballistic controls (which aren't uncommon lately) - You get get about 4000dmg (unhardened, depends on pilot skills) every 10 seconds.. with your lowest resistance of 60% that's about 1800dmg every 10 seconds. - And you will only be able to repair about 1400HP every 10 seconds. A bit better fitting would be with 4 energized adaptive nano membranes II, which would give you 70+% resistances across the board. Ok, you will have to lose one cap relay, but nano membranes don't use any cap so you'll gain a bit there, so you should be able to run everything too. With such fitting i don't think a raven can harm you.
hatchette	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:39:00 - [16] you'll be able to tank a raven if your skills are good enough. (repair systems and cap skills) Problem might pose a raven with 5 ballistic controls (which aren't uncommon lately) - You get get about 4000dmg (unhardened, depends on pilot skills) every 10 seconds.. with your lowest resistance of 60% that's about 1800dmg every 10 seconds. - And you will only be able to repair about 1400HP every 10 seconds. A bit better fitting would be with 4 energized adaptive nano membranes II, which would give you 70+% resistances across the board. Ok, you will have to lose one cap relay, but nano membranes don't use any cap so you'll gain a bit there, so you should be able to run everything too. With such fitting i don't think a raven can harm you.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:45:00 - [17] My dad is stronger than your dad.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:45:00 - [18] My dad is stronger than your dad.
dalman	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:49:00 - [19] If the raven pilot is good, you'd die. 1. The damage output I have on my raven is too high for you. Even with your 3 hardeners + 2 L Acco I would deal damage faster than you can repair it, so it's irrelevant whether your cap lasts forever or not. 2. Since you don't have a scrambler, you can't possibly kill the raven. 3. That you fit 2 siege launchers is a bad idea. Without any ship bonus and/or high missiles skills, they don't give enough bang for the bucks ( too low damage/time vs how much CPU and grid they take). -> Your setup will not do enough damage to force the raven to run. 4. I see people talking about keeping 35-40km range in this thread. WTF??? A good pilot knows how to use the scanner, so there won't be a 40km fight. The raven will be inside 20km scrambling range. 5. And about the drones... Well, the raven has as many drones as you do... M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
dalman	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:49:00 - [20] If the raven pilot is good, you'd die. 1. The damage output I have on my raven is too high for you. Even with your 3 hardeners + 2 L Acco I would deal damage faster than you can repair it, so it's irrelevant whether your cap lasts forever or not. 2. Since you don't have a scrambler, you can't possibly kill the raven. 3. That you fit 2 siege launchers is a bad idea. Without any ship bonus and/or high missiles skills, they don't give enough bang for the bucks ( too low damage/time vs how much CPU and grid they take). -> Your setup will not do enough damage to force the raven to run. 4. I see people talking about keeping 35-40km range in this thread. WTF??? A good pilot knows how to use the scanner, so there won't be a 40km fight. The raven will be inside 20km scrambling range. 5. And about the drones... Well, the raven has as many drones as you do... M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:51:00 - [21] Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 22/11/2004 14:54:12 It'd be close to call, With the Raven in Nosferatu range it might get a bit funky for you as you are losing just about all your cap recharge to that. There are Raven fits that could kill it though no problem. But he'd have to know that he was fighting you with that fit. The Apoc would probably win, barring noobish mistakes like getting too close to use your guns your standard Raven fit would fall to that. A specialised one wouldn't.
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:51:00 - [22] Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 22/11/2004 14:54:12 It'd be close to call, With the Raven in Nosferatu range it might get a bit funky for you as you are losing just about all your cap recharge to that. There are Raven fits that could kill it though no problem. But he'd have to know that he was fighting you with that fit. The Apoc would probably win, barring noobish mistakes like getting too close to use your guns your standard Raven fit would fall to that. A specialised one wouldn't.
Papermate	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:55:00 - [23] fit 2 heavy energy neutralizers and u will probably win. "Master of Papercuts"
Papermate	Posted - 2004.11.22 14:55:00 - [24] fit 2 heavy energy neutralizers and u will probably win. "Master of Papercuts"
dalman	Posted - 2004.11.22 15:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Papermate fit 2 heavy energy neutralizers and u will probably win. Certainly gets more interesting. I had a very fun 1vs1 once with an apoc set up like that. Ended in a draw, with 2 ships low on structure. As explained above, I hammered him hard, and eventually got through his armour. But at the same time he emptied my cap completely. Which meant my scrambler stopped so he could warp away, although I myself was dropping VERY fast then. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
dalman	Posted - 2004.11.22 15:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Papermate fit 2 heavy energy neutralizers and u will probably win. Certainly gets more interesting. I had a very fun 1vs1 once with an apoc set up like that. Ended in a draw, with 2 ships low on structure. As explained above, I hammered him hard, and eventually got through his armour. But at the same time he emptied my cap completely. Which meant my scrambler stopped so he could warp away, although I myself was dropping VERY fast then. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:02:00 - [27] I have been tempted to drop the siege and just use 8 megapulses. However those seiges have save my life a few times when fighting bs's with up close support cruisers and frigs. My missile skills are pretty good. Even though the raven would be able to do more damage than i could tank, do you think i would be able to give enough damage back to get through his shields. Also how does the raven cope with cap usage when sheild tanking to the max, ie if i can hold our for long enough will he eventually run out. Reading the threads above i think ill use some cap rechargers t2 and stick a warp disruptor or scrambler in a med slot. Thanks for your input guys
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:02:00 - [28] I have been tempted to drop the siege and just use 8 megapulses. However those seiges have save my life a few times when fighting bs's with up close support cruisers and frigs. My missile skills are pretty good. Even though the raven would be able to do more damage than i could tank, do you think i would be able to give enough damage back to get through his shields. Also how does the raven cope with cap usage when sheild tanking to the max, ie if i can hold our for long enough will he eventually run out. Reading the threads above i think ill use some cap rechargers t2 and stick a warp disruptor or scrambler in a med slot. Thanks for your input guys
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:14:00 - [29] well a ravens main offense is missiles, if you use 1/2 smartbombs and stagger their launches, you should be able to wipe out 90% of his offense, with the right cap charge, you should be able to do this for a while "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
Liquid Metal	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:14:00 - [30] well a ravens main offense is missiles, if you use 1/2 smartbombs and stagger their launches, you should be able to wipe out 90% of his offense, with the right cap charge, you should be able to do this for a while "A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
demonic possession	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:24:00 - [31] Do defenders kill cruise missiles or torps... ??? if so use 2 named rocket launchers with defenders
demonic possession	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:24:00 - [32] Do defenders kill cruise missiles or torps... ??? if so use 2 named rocket launchers with defenders
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:27:00 - [33] Originally by: demonic possession Do defenders kill cruise missiles or torps... ??? if so use 2 named rocket launchers with defenders Defenders kill both, ill have to give that a go. Lets just hope that when im carrying them i dont come up against a blasterthron.
Regus Nockta	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:27:00 - [34] Originally by: demonic possession Do defenders kill cruise missiles or torps... ??? if so use 2 named rocket launchers with defenders Defenders kill both, ill have to give that a go. Lets just hope that when im carrying them i dont come up against a blasterthron.
KristofferTr	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:30:00 - [35] Well i can answer this, i have done it about 2 weeks ago. Not much hapend, i outtanked him, he outtanked me. Bot players had infinite cap, thats about it. My setup: 8 Megapulses with Gamma 4Cap recharger II 2 Large accom. 3 Hardners. 2 Cap relays No drones involved. I am not sure about his setup, but he used mixed torpedos. Miner* - KristofferTr Fighter - Whitelitch Tactical - Lafiele
KristofferTr	Posted - 2004.11.22 16:30:00 - [36] Well i can answer this, i have done it about 2 weeks ago. Not much hapend, i outtanked him, he outtanked me. Bot players had infinite cap, thats about it. My setup: 8 Megapulses with Gamma 4Cap recharger II 2 Large accom. 3 Hardners. 2 Cap relays No drones involved. I am not sure about his setup, but he used mixed torpedos. Miner* - KristofferTr Fighter - Whitelitch Tactical - Lafiele
Madmartigan	Posted - 2004.11.22 17:48:00 - [37] I believ the Raven has a bonus to kinetic missiles so most Raven pilots will use those. To counter that, fit 3 Kinetic Armor Hardeners I, should get you around 90% resistance to kinetic, allthough it will leave you pretty vulnerable to other kind of damage. So he better not pack other kinds of missiles or rails. Mad "Explosions are so beautiful."
Madmartigan	Posted - 2004.11.22 17:48:00 - [38] I believ the Raven has a bonus to kinetic missiles so most Raven pilots will use those. To counter that, fit 3 Kinetic Armor Hardeners I, should get you around 90% resistance to kinetic, allthough it will leave you pretty vulnerable to other kind of damage. So he better not pack other kinds of missiles or rails. Mad "Explosions are so beautiful."
pardux	Posted - 2004.11.22 18:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Madmartigan I believ the Raven has a bonus to kinetic missiles so most Raven pilots will use those. To counter that, fit 3 Kinetic Armor Hardeners I, should get you around 90% resistance to kinetic, allthough it will leave you pretty vulnerable to other kind of damage. So he better not pack other kinds of missiles or rails. Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate Of Fire and 10% bonus to Missile Velocity per level Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
pardux	Posted - 2004.11.22 18:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Madmartigan I believ the Raven has a bonus to kinetic missiles so most Raven pilots will use those. To counter that, fit 3 Kinetic Armor Hardeners I, should get you around 90% resistance to kinetic, allthough it will leave you pretty vulnerable to other kind of damage. So he better not pack other kinds of missiles or rails. Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate Of Fire and 10% bonus to Missile Velocity per level Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.11.22 18:05:00 - [41] Originally by: pardux Originally by: Madmartigan I believ the Raven has a bonus to kinetic missiles so most Raven pilots will use those. To counter that, fit 3 Kinetic Armor Hardeners I, should get you around 90% resistance to kinetic, allthough it will leave you pretty vulnerable to other kind of damage. So he better not pack other kinds of missiles or rails. Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate Of Fire and 10% bonus to Missile Velocity per level B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.11.22 18:05:00 - [42] Originally by: pardux Originally by: Madmartigan I believ the Raven has a bonus to kinetic missiles so most Raven pilots will use those. To counter that, fit 3 Kinetic Armor Hardeners I, should get you around 90% resistance to kinetic, allthough it will leave you pretty vulnerable to other kind of damage. So he better not pack other kinds of missiles or rails. Quote: Special Ability: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher Rate Of Fire and 10% bonus to Missile Velocity per level B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Aegis Osiris	Posted - 2004.11.23 02:31:00 - [43] Will be close. If the Apoc survives until the Raven's cap goes down, the Apoc wins. If not, the Raven does :) Just my take on it (from the losing side). Oh, and drop those sieges for medium SB's. Thats your main chance, to kill off as many missles as possible.
Aegis Osiris	Posted - 2004.11.23 02:31:00 - [44] Will be close. If the Apoc survives until the Raven's cap goes down, the Apoc wins. If not, the Raven does :) Just my take on it (from the losing side). Oh, and drop those sieges for medium SB's. Thats your main chance, to kill off as many missles as possible.
Ricdic	Posted - 2004.11.23 02:44:00 - [45] in actual fact a raven can take you down without too much trouble with the right fittings. I have tested this with my current setup, and i dont have any problems, unless the apoc stops shooting. Once an apoc stops returning fire, it is impossible for me to take down his tank, at least for a damn long time. The secret is nossies for the raven, but if you get out of his nossie range and stay out of it, you should be ok.
Ricdic	Posted - 2004.11.23 02:44:00 - [46] in actual fact a raven can take you down without too much trouble with the right fittings. I have tested this with my current setup, and i dont have any problems, unless the apoc stops shooting. Once an apoc stops returning fire, it is impossible for me to take down his tank, at least for a damn long time. The secret is nossies for the raven, but if you get out of his nossie range and stay out of it, you should be ok.
Caya	Posted - 2004.11.24 09:32:00 - [47] i love these topics... Raven mounts 1-2 tracking disruptors -> Apoc cant hit it. Apoc mounts targ. computer -> problem solved. The same example can be found with jamming, dampening, draining, smarties....
Caya	Posted - 2004.11.24 09:32:00 - [48] i love these topics... Raven mounts 1-2 tracking disruptors -> Apoc cant hit it. Apoc mounts targ. computer -> problem solved. The same example can be found with jamming, dampening, draining, smarties....
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:25:00 - [49] everything in the question on the topic is the raven's setup, why even bother speculating? The guy could be wearing 3 shield extenders, in which case he will go donw, or he could be usin 5 bcs and wtfown u, 1v1 is a gamble. __ There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
Neon Genesis	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:25:00 - [50] everything in the question on the topic is the raven's setup, why even bother speculating? The guy could be wearing 3 shield extenders, in which case he will go donw, or he could be usin 5 bcs and wtfown u, 1v1 is a gamble. __ There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
Wizard	Posted - 2004.11.25 02:17:00 - [51] Edited by: Wizard on 25/11/2004 02:27:33 Originally by: dalman Originally by: Papermate fit 2 heavy energy neutralizers and u will probably win. Certainly gets more interesting. I had a very fun 1vs1 once with an apoc set up like that. Ended in a draw, with 2 ships low on structure. As explained above, I hammered him hard, and eventually got through his armour. But at the same time he emptied my cap completely. Which meant my scrambler stopped so he could warp away, although I myself was dropping VERY fast then. Hehe, thks for that duel dalman, i remember it well. I hope we can go again in the future. The best anti raven fit for a appoc pilot to have the way i see it is to just gank setup really. You gotta do as much damage as possible as quickly as possible and that means a high ROF. Also no-one should go into 1vs1 without a scrambler fitted, if oponent gets low then theyll just run. But enuf of all this really, unless the ravens skills are ****e its probably best to avoid combat with him.
Wizard	Posted - 2004.11.25 02:17:00 - [52] Edited by: Wizard on 25/11/2004 02:27:33 Originally by: dalman Originally by: Papermate fit 2 heavy energy neutralizers and u will probably win. Certainly gets more interesting. I had a very fun 1vs1 once with an apoc set up like that. Ended in a draw, with 2 ships low on structure. As explained above, I hammered him hard, and eventually got through his armour. But at the same time he emptied my cap completely. Which meant my scrambler stopped so he could warp away, although I myself was dropping VERY fast then. Hehe, thks for that duel dalman, i remember it well. I hope we can go again in the future. The best anti raven fit for a appoc pilot to have the way i see it is to just gank setup really. You gotta do as much damage as possible as quickly as possible and that means a high ROF. Also no-one should go into 1vs1 without a scrambler fitted, if oponent gets low then theyll just run. But enuf of all this really, unless the ravens skills are ****e its probably best to avoid combat with him.

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