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Eve got one thing to learn from STO

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Chakoth Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.18 21:19:00 - [1] I have played STO beta and even though the game is completely different than Eve it does one thing better and that is combat. STO combat is far more fun than Eve. You have firing arcs, you have shield facings (with posibility to strengthen a shield facing), you have tons of extra abilities, you can set your power levels so your shields get stronger, at the expense of weapon and change it on the fly. It has TONS of tactical options that I wish Eve had. Why arent they improving Eve combat? Short of overheating, tt has been more or less the same since release and combat in Eve is decided before battle, not during. Shame really, cause Eve is a much better game than STO in all other ways. "No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast." Shakespeare, Richard III
Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.01.18 21:24:00 - [2] Because what you saw in STO is only possible because 90% of STO is instanced. If you brought the same system into EVE you'd have to start sharding because there's no way a server can handle that many people doing all that you mentioned. Hell, just look at blob warfare now and the lag it causes. Now multiply that....over and over again. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
Malen Nenokal The Nightshift	Posted - 2010.01.18 21:28:00 - [3] Originally by: Aloriana Jacques Because what you saw in STO is only possible because 90% of STO is instanced. If you brought the same system into EVE you'd have to start sharding because there's no way a server can handle that many people doing all that you mentioned. Hell, just look at blob warfare now and the lag it causes. Now multiply that....over and over again. This. Although it would be cool, it just wouldn't work in EVE technologically.
mchief117	Posted - 2010.01.18 21:30:00 - [4] Originally by: Chakoth I have played STO beta and even though the game is completely different than Eve it does one thing better and that is combat. STO combat is far more fun than Eve. You have firing arcs, you have shield facings (with posibility to strengthen a shield facing), you have tons of extra abilities, you can set your power levels so your shields get stronger, at the expense of weapon and change it on the fly. It has TONS of tactical options that I wish Eve had. Why arent they improving Eve combat? Short of overheating, tt has been more or less the same since release and combat in Eve is decided before battle, not during. Shame really, cause Eve is a much better game than STO in all other ways. could be a few things. First unlike WOW , EVE does not have the player base that wow has and as such only sits on a mountain of silver. that and ccp charges less than WOW they don't have the Income to have the same sized work force that WOW does ( not that I'm saying wow is better) second has to do with the game engine. i don't know how STO works but i doubt that they have a signal core game ( if they do please mention this) the whole core aspect of the eve engine is that literally every player could warp to Jita and shoot each other ( think of all the concord forces on that one) this unfortunately means that every player and there controlled items is talking with the eve cluster at the same time and even something as simple as telling your 8 guns to fire at enemy #1 results in a minimum 8 calls to the server ( computer sends message to server and server replies) this is also why there is a sign up sheet for large fleet fights as ccp will dedicate severs to the system they will occur in. Lastly it may have to do with the project ladder. I'm afraid most ideas we have fall near th bottom while few reside at the top . this means that things that while fun , like you shield maneuvering simple are not "important" enough to be implements know. If you do have griefs with something in STO thats not in eve , extract a single idea ( such as your shield maneuvering) and post it as a full idea of its own.
Valandril Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.01.18 21:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Chakoth I have played STO beta and even though the game is completely different than Eve it does one thing better and that is combat. STO combat is far more fun than Eve. You have firing arcs, you have shield facings (with posibility to strengthen a shield facing), you have tons of extra abilities, you can set your power levels so your shields get stronger, at the expense of weapon and change it on the fly. It has TONS of tactical options that I wish Eve had. Why arent they improving Eve combat? Short of overheating, tt has been more or less the same since release and combat in Eve is decided before battle, not during. Shame really, cause Eve is a much better game than STO in all other ways. Sto combat is BOOOORING. In reality those arcs mean crap, powering your shields is meaningless (for crying out loud, see from which side you are getting hit and press a button - amazing gameplay). Not to mention that it is as shallow as it can get (aw the depth in fittings... not) and got more from wow than from any other game (inluding eve). So maybe GB2STO.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.01.18 21:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Aloriana Jacques Because what you saw in STO is only possible because 90% of STO is instanced. If you brought the same system into EVE you'd have to start sharding because there's no way a server can handle that many people doing all that you mentioned. Hell, just look at blob warfare now and the lag it causes. Now multiply that....over and over again. Basicly this. There are tradeoffs to be made and certain corners have to be cut to enable huge fleets to fight and keep things playable. That is why you have to consider very carefully how you want to develp the combat system, since those huge fleetfights that define EVE have to stay playable.
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2010.01.18 21:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Chakoth I have played STO beta and even though the game is completely different than Eve it does one thing better and that is combat. STO combat is far more fun than Eve. You have firing arcs, you have shield facings (with posibility to strengthen a shield facing), you have tons of extra abilities, you can set your power levels so your shields get stronger, at the expense of weapon and change it on the fly. It has TONS of tactical options that I wish Eve had. Why arent they improving Eve combat? Short of overheating, tt has been more or less the same since release and combat in Eve is decided before battle, not during. Shame really, cause Eve is a much better game than STO in all other ways. Sto combat is BOOOORING. In reality those arcs mean crap, powering your shields is meaningless (for crying out loud, see from which side you are getting hit and press a button - amazing gameplay). Not to mention that it is as shallow as it can get (aw the depth in fittings... not) and got more from wow than from any other game (inluding eve). So maybe GB2STO. that would be very fail on your part. Someone using all 4 shields facings would have 4x the effective hp then someone using just one. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
Davelantor Caldari The Hunt University World Allegiance of The Hunt	Posted - 2010.01.18 22:06:00 - [8] WiS can be taken few steps forward and something like the planetary quests with guns and etc. be added .... and the idea of officers and crew is quite interesting ... i seen quite many and nice ideas that has been going around about crew implementations and ship walking that can be introduced with the Walking in stations. there are even **** loads of material that is already in eve which people can use .. [side armos, planetary veicles, marines]. Trainable officers that doesnt have a jump clone can be quite interesting and could make the game a lot more fun ... of whether to take such advantage to a battle or go to a planetary mission with it ... run a search and requeue ops with them on a station .. etc. etc. .. EvE can handle improvements like these The Hunt
Jesse WhiteStar First Slave Corporation	Posted - 2010.01.18 22:57:00 - [9] Davelantor what in the name of crap are you talking about? Trainable officers? Search and Rescue Ops? This is EVE!
Aqriue	Posted - 2010.01.18 22:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Valandril quote]Sto combat is BOOOORING. In reality those arcs mean crap, powering your shields is meaningless (for crying out loud, see from which side you are getting hit and press a button - amazing gameplay). Not to mention that it is as shallow as it can get (aw the depth in fittings... not) and got more from wow than from any other game (inluding eve). So maybe GB2STO. On the reverse side, EVE ship combat is BOOOORING! In EVE reality, huge hitpint buffers are meaningless because its one 360 degree arc unlike the dynamics of STO. Powering your shields is pointless, because lul RR shield repping. For crying out loud, see how effective you are hitting stuff - CLICK! and your guns cycle endlessly for the next hour while you scream at the stupidy of having to request a node being reinforced before hand. Not to mention the shallowness of module fitting - 1200 people using the same 7-8 guns in the highs on some piece of sht throw away T1 Battleship because using HACs is overly expensive, mids with a targeting/optimal script and MWD maybe with a cap injector, lows consisting of the static dynamics of 1600mm plates and energized adaptive plates coupled with 3 trimark rigs, forget the entire concept of active tanking or the waste of skill time involved training something never used in blob fleets. Ah, the huge depthness in fitting choices...not much different between my ship, my fleet mates, the alliance I am in, and the entire enemy fleet sitting in front of us; we could play musical ships. Yes, your right. EVE PVP is incredibly dynamic* that it requires hundreds of people to volley the same targets over and over again in a single file manner like some napoleanoic firing line to get through hitpoint buffers like Counter Strike or HALO online. Don't get me started on AFK POS bashing, saw some random hisec takedown and I thought "not for me".

Chakoth Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.18 23:02:00 - [11] From the replies so far, the only reason why Eve would not benefit from a more complex combat system like STO is the technology. I have no idea what the limits are, that only the devs know shrug However there are other really cool elements to STO combat. Crew and ship officers would also be a very nice addition, along with special abilities. I mean really, Eves combat has barely changed in 6 years. Maybe it is time? "No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast." Shakespeare, Richard III
Nika Dekaia	Posted - 2010.01.18 23:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Chakoth From the replies so far, the only reason why Eve would not benefit from a more complex combat system like STO is the technology. I have no idea what the limits are, that only the devs know shrug However there are other really cool elements to STO combat. Crew and ship officers would also be a very nice addition, along with special abilities. I mean really, Eves combat has barely changed in 6 years. Maybe it is time? Maybe you can adjust your shields in a 1 v 1 or a 2 v. 1 efficiently. But as soon as there are more people shooting you and focussing fire, that concept is unpracticable. Just won't work in a sandbox. As for officers and crew: the ships in Eve are already highly customizable. CCP will not add another tier of customizable stuff (crew) if there is not more than "just to have more stuff to customize" reason. Balancing the game is hard enough as is, already.
Magnus Orin Minmatar United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2010.01.18 23:40:00 - [13] Eve has all of that. Only you do it before the fight. Eve tactics involve choosing the right ship and mods for the right situation. Eve has never been about twitch/reflex based combat and never will be. It is better for that as well.
Meredith Midnight	Posted - 2010.01.19 00:34:00 - [14] Unfortunately all that shield buffing doesnt matter the second you start having 3v3s and more, it doesnt matter if you can cycle your shields as one side will drop like a stone with focus fire. (and heaven forbid if they tractor beam you while they're doing it, cuz then you can't even rotate). Ever been the first one to attack the enemy in those higher level enemy anomalies? they're most likely not gonna make it out of that fight. (But hey, no death penalty so im always the first one to charge, like that one guy in the battle of troy). If they could make it so you could super-reinforce one side (that you know they're going to hit), then it'd be better. (and then you can have flanking manuevers with decloaking to take advantage of their weaker sides. Sadly EVE's design barely makes it possible to have fleet combat with the existing combat system, i doubt any sort of strategic combat play would force CCP to limit the ships available per node to make it viable.
Allan Sheperd	Posted - 2010.01.19 01:11:00 - [15] Everyone knows that EVE has no strategy involved in it, and that any new player can simply learn how to master PVP in a matter of days. There isn't any thought that goes into coordinating a fleet fight, just hundreds of people pressing F1-F8. Every ship has the same capabilities and fittings, there is clearly only one way to fit any ship in order to be successful in PVP. I'm so sick of EVE combat being the same thing over and over again.
Dex Timor Forza Di Colpo	Posted - 2010.01.19 01:12:00 - [16] The ship combat from STO has been done in earlier Trek games: - Star Fleet Command - Bridge Commander (and this one had more 3d to it with dorsal and ventral shields ...) I wish STO loads of success, but EVE will remain the better sandbox. Also there is more complexity to EVE's combat system then meets the eye.
Valandril Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.01.19 07:33:00 - [17] Edited by: Valandril on 19/01/2010 07:33:54 Originally by: Aqriue Originally by: Valandril quote]Sto combat is BOOOORING. In reality those arcs mean crap, powering your shields is meaningless (for crying out loud, see from which side you are getting hit and press a button - amazing gameplay). Not to mention that it is as shallow as it can get (aw the depth in fittings... not) and got more from wow than from any other game (inluding eve). So maybe GB2STO. On the reverse side, EVE ship combat is BOOOORING! In EVE reality, huge hitpint buffers are meaningless because its one 360 degree arc unlike the dynamics of STO. Powering your shields is pointless, because lul RR shield repping. For crying out loud, see how effective you are hitting stuff - CLICK! and your guns cycle endlessly for the next hour while you scream at the stupidy of having to request a node being reinforced before hand. Not to mention the shallowness of module fitting - 1200 people using the same 7-8 guns in the highs on some piece of sht throw away T1 Battleship because using HACs is overly expensive, mids with a targeting/optimal script and MWD maybe with a cap injector, lows consisting of the static dynamics of 1600mm plates and energized adaptive plates coupled with 3 trimark rigs, forget the entire concept of active tanking or the waste of skill time involved training something never used in blob fleets. Ah, the huge depthness in fitting choices...not much different between my ship, my fleet mates, the alliance I am in, and the entire enemy fleet sitting in front of us; we could play musical ships. Yes, your right. EVE PVP is incredibly dynamic* that it requires hundreds of people to volley the same targets over and over again in a single file manner like some napoleanoic firing line to get through hitpoint buffers like Counter Strike or HALO online. Don't get me started on AFK POS bashing, saw some random hisec takedown and I thought "not for me". I never said that eve pvp is dynamic, but it's a lot more complex than pvp in yet-another-priest+warrior+thief-mmorpg which is STO. Difference is that eve complexity comes from leading big fights, not from 1:1. @someone who said that eve pvp didn't change in 6 years: go get a clue. Really.
Lemmy Kravitz	Posted - 2010.01.19 08:00:00 - [18] The reason why eve is limited in what it does combatwise is because it all occurs on one big server. STO will be like WOW and have a bunch of small servers with 5k people in it or around there. When you have 40k+ people everyday selling, buying, killing, mining etc. etc. etc. on one server. You get limited with what you can do to prevent complete server bog down. As technology gets better Eve will continue to get more comlex. Once Cellprocessors become the industry standard I predict we will see a very big jump in what can be done in eve.
Dex Timor Forza Di Colpo	Posted - 2010.01.19 08:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Nika Dekaia Originally by: Chakoth From the replies so far, the only reason why Eve would not benefit from a more complex combat system like STO is the technology. I have no idea what the limits are, that only the devs know shrug However there are other really cool elements to STO combat. Crew and ship officers would also be a very nice addition, along with special abilities. I mean really, Eves combat has barely changed in 6 years. Maybe it is time? Maybe you can adjust your shields in a 1 v 1 or a 2 v. 1 efficiently. But as soon as there are more people shooting you and focussing fire, that concept is unpracticable. Just won't work in a sandbox. As for officers and crew: the ships in Eve are already highly customizable. CCP will not add another tier of customizable stuff (crew) if there is not more than "just to have more stuff to customize" reason. Balancing the game is hard enough as is, already. As was to be expected: quote: Space Combat Alpha Strikes There appears to be an issue with enemies performing devastating Alpha strikes in space -- all ships will target the first player, take him out, and move through the rest of the squadron. This makes space combat, when youÆre teamed up, very difficult. WeÆre addressing this in the next major patch. For now, flying in a tighter formation with your team will help. /quote http://startrekonline.com/node/899


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