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Macro mining simple fix?

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amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.19 09:03:00 - [1] Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to mine roids?
Bemoteajh	Posted - 2010.01.19 09:13:00 - [2] +1
Suunto Viper	Posted - 2010.01.19 11:45:00 - [3] Originally by: amarian arch Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to mine roids? Originally by: amarian arch Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to mine roids? How does this concord generated key get displayed to the pilot? becuase it would be vry easy to change a macro to copy and paste before mining. so would have to be un copy-able. it would be a pain every time you locked another roid to mine it if you had to enter a key - it could be added to the ship menu, similar to the enter starbase forcefield password section and needs re generated when you dock. however this would just mean macro miners would can mine and have a hauler on a macro as well , does mean we can just steal all the macroers ore though :D
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.19 12:27:00 - [4] as if captchas arent broken already by programs ...
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.19 19:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Suunto Viper Originally by: amarian arch Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to mine roids? Originally by: amarian arch Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to mine roids? How does this concord generated key get displayed to the pilot? becuase it would be vry easy to change a macro to copy and paste before mining. so would have to be un copy-able. it would be a pain every time you locked another roid to mine it if you had to enter a key - it could be added to the ship menu, similar to the enter starbase forcefield password section and needs re generated when you dock. however this would just mean macro miners would can mine and have a hauler on a macro as well , does mean we can just steal all the macroers ore though :D It could be a dialogue that appears before allowing you to warp to the belt composed of either a simple captcha but if some individuals feel that is not enough it could be composed of entirely fictional symbols that one must match to another set of symbols before warping. CCP could reuse the decorations menu and give it a reduced set of options and with either font generated text or images that would at the least make it much more harder for programers to design programs that would be capable of solving these problems and at the very least this would at least slow them down. Think of it as matching hieroglyphs meets scrabble. You have 5 glyphs in a correct pattern and 5 glyphs underneath them which you need to unscramble and rearrange into a correct pattern that is specified above them. Ill do an example with some font right now. Example: !@#$ Mixed Set: $#@! Another variation:$@#! Yet another:$!#@ And so on..... All the user would have to do is rearrange them into the order of the example given which would only take a few seconds.
Avoida	Posted - 2010.01.19 20:10:00 - [6] Originally by: amarian arch It could be a dialogue that appears before allowing you to warp to the belt composed of either a simple captcha but if some individuals feel that is not enough it could be composed of entirely fictional symbols that one must match to another set of symbols before warping. And this will only apply to mining ships then? Exhumers and Barges? What about other ships outfitted for mining? Would they have to enter this code? Have you thought about the ramifications for PvP ships? I'd hate to have to enter some stupid multi-symbol code to warp my PvP ship to a belt while chasing some target.
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.19 20:12:00 - [7] Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 20:16:48 Originally by: Avoida Originally by: amarian arch It could be a dialogue that appears before allowing you to warp to the belt composed of either a simple captcha but if some individuals feel that is not enough it could be composed of entirely fictional symbols that one must match to another set of symbols before warping. And this will only apply to mining ships then? Exhumers and Barges? What about other ships outfitted for mining? Would they have to enter this code? Have you thought about the ramifications for PvP ships? I'd hate to have to enter some stupid multi-symbol code to warp my PvP ship to a belt while chasing some target. It could be implemented once in the belt or before warping in. I forgot about warping in and killing them so it would probably be a good idea to have it along the lines of activating the code before mining in the belt so in other words target a roid, put your laser on it, dialogue pops up, and voila you can mine all the roids and pvp ships can still jump directly to belt without problems. All it would require is the dialogue appearing once you begin to mine and it doesn’t have to be triggered on every roid in the belt just have the player activate a script trigger that would run along these lines. If(player mining) : then blah blah ( security code) And so on
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.19 20:33:00 - [8] lol, you are already trying to hot fix so many things, clear sign the proposal isnt thought through fully. back to the whiteboard?
Sokratesz	Posted - 2010.01.19 20:44:00 - [9] Last thing the internet needs is more capchas :P Want to test a supercap on SISI but don't have one?
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.19 21:06:00 - [10] Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:06:18 Originally by: darius mclever lol, you are already trying to hot fix so many things, clear sign the proposal isnt thought through fully. back to the whiteboard? All i want is mining fixed and if people complain about captchas imagine how they will be *****ing when trit reaches 2.0isk per unit and plexes rise to 350mill oh wait thats almost happening right now!

amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.19 21:11:00 - [11] Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:14:07 Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:13:53 sorry double post
Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.01.19 21:19:00 - [12] The mining revamp CCP has talked about (coming soonTM) included mechanics to limit macro miners. That is, making asteroid rings and comets having to be scanned out, and scan even further to get to the mats that are more expensive. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.19 21:21:00 - [13] Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:21:33 Originally by: Aloriana Jacques The mining revamp CCP has talked about (coming soonTM) included mechanics to limit macro miners. That is, making asteroid rings and comets having to be scanned out, and scan even further to get to the mats that are more expensive. Ive heard about this but with all ccp projects they are not really giving us much info on how long of an amount of time that it will take to implement something like that. The point being till that comes what are they going to do?
Sanguis Sanies Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.19 21:37:00 - [14] What about macro mission runners? macro couriers? Why should it be miners that have to have an extra hassle, why don't pvpers have to enter a code to enable a fight, mining takes up a lot less calls to server than PVP so if all you want to do is reduce lag then make PVP and mission running harder!
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.19 21:53:00 - [15] Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:54:00 Originally by: Sanguis Sanies What about macro mission runners? macro couriers? Why should it be miners that have to have an extra hassle, why don't pvpers have to enter a code to enable a fight, mining takes up a lot less calls to server than PVP so if all you want to do is reduce lag then make PVP and mission running harder! Personally anyone who uses a macro for pvp is a idiot and will most likely get them selves killed and seeing as automated pvp would be just plain dumb i dont think this is to much of a problem. Missioners are taking a hit with standing, and loyalty points becoming worthless and people being able to scan them down and ninja everything. Mining has none of that when your a macro you go to point A and then to B no standing loss no guarding a jet can none of that nonsense. What do you mean by 'Extra Hassle' THE WHOLE BLOODY POINT HERE IS that players are having to mine much much longer and much more to make decent buck. What would you rather have from a noobs perspective wasting an hour in a hulk to make around 10 million isk an hour in highsec or go run a mission and pull in more then quadruple that.
Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.01.19 21:53:00 - [16] Originally by: amarian arch The point being till that comes what are they going to do? The same thing they're doing now, relying on the reports and petitions by players to point out problem spots they need to look into. They don't monitor the system for botters 95% of the time, there's no way to actually tell unless you analyse an account in detail. The only thing the new system will do is decrease their numbers. People will still bot, they always will, but it'll be harder. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.19 22:02:00 - [17] Originally by: Aloriana Jacques Originally by: amarian arch The point being till that comes what are they going to do? The same thing they're doing now, relying on the reports and petitions by players to point out problem spots they need to look into. They don't monitor the system for botters 95% of the time, there's no way to actually tell unless you analyse an account in detail. The only thing the new system will do is decrease their numbers. People will still bot, they always will, but it'll be harder. With this kind of Architecture for a system they will be forced to completely reinvent industry every couple of years because macro mining will catch up. It will be nice in the beginning then it turns bitter then it turns to out right **** and then they’re forced to rebuild the system yet again costing them more man hours and more money.
Neo Maximus Gallente Forging Industries Einherjar Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.20 00:55:00 - [18] Edited by: Neo Maximus on 20/01/2010 00:58:28 I like the idea. Doesn't need to be every time a miner is activated, but just when warping into a belt. It could be displayed right when warp is initiated and you're in a mining barge or mining lasers(It doesn't show if you don't have mining modules equipped). This gives the player time to type it in while warping. Would be like captcha, and not copy/pastable text. The player would not be able to activate mining modules until the right key is entered. Once you warp out of the belt, it is reset, and another key would require upon warping to another belt. This doesn't let automated macro characters constantly make trips between the belt and station.
Hecatonis	Posted - 2010.01.20 07:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Neo Maximus Edited by: Neo Maximus on 20/01/2010 00:58:28 I like the idea. Doesn't need to be every time a miner is activated, but just when warping into a belt. It could be displayed right when warp is initiated and you're in a mining barge or mining lasers(It doesn't show if you don't have mining modules equipped). This gives the player time to type it in while warping. Would be like captcha, and not copy/pastable text. The player would not be able to activate mining modules until the right key is entered. Once you warp out of the belt, it is reset, and another key would require upon warping to another belt. This doesn't let automated macro characters constantly make trips between the belt and station. that is a great idea, and as a miner i really wouldn't mind, warping is a dead time anyways, well unless i am reading something on market or something. i vote yes
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2010.01.20 08:09:00 - [20] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 20/01/2010 08:10:14 As the Fanfest presentation demonstrated, CCP are already looking at ways to deal with macros by changing how actual mining works (e.g. far fewer static belts, far more exploration-based belts) - that is a much superior solution than an annoying captcha. Edit: Also, as a person who watches F&I fairly often, this idea comes up every month or so, so if CCP were wishing to do it, they'd have done it by now, methinks.

Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2010.01.20 11:05:00 - [21] I fully support actions to block macros in Eve, but there has to be a ballance against the annoyance to regular players. Everyone who warps to a belt has to do this? and it just limits the mining lazers/strippers? A macroer can enter the code on his miner and have it work into a can... then macro a hauler pickup????? If its everyone every time they warp to a belt? that will quickly get annoying. WHat about belt ratters or pirates warping arounf the belts in a system? Some good ideas here, but try to limit the annoyance factor. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Van PokerAlho	Posted - 2010.01.20 11:42:00 - [22] bad idea, bad idea, mining is already a ****, dont make it worst. Also in my completely ignorant opinion, without macro miners EVE would suck. And I think CCP knows that, when you buy a ship keep in mind the price is not much bigger because some macros selled a lot of minerals. Also mining is so boring, if you can mine 10 hours per day you should visit your psychiatrist. just ban the isk sellers macros, the others are doing a fine job, ty to all macros who allow me to buy ships for the ship price.
Savatar Mei	Posted - 2010.01.20 11:48:00 - [23] a playa who is on 23x7 isnt human, or is a bunch of humans. simple as?
Hecatonis	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Jint Hikaru I fully support actions to block macros in Eve, but there has to be a ballance against the annoyance to regular players. Everyone who warps to a belt has to do this? and it just limits the mining lazers/strippers? A macroer can enter the code on his miner and have it work into a can... then macro a hauler pickup????? If its everyone every time they warp to a belt? that will quickly get annoying. WHat about belt ratters or pirates warping arounf the belts in a system? Some good ideas here, but try to limit the annoyance factor. i am assuming you didn't read the posts, someone suggested that it only happens when someone with mining equipment fitted to their ship be effected. i personally think it should be done every 10 min or so, make it into a minigame or something like: tweeking the mining crystal, time based, if you get it done in time you get to mine normally, if you do it faster or more efficiently then you get a mining bonus, this will discourage AFK miners as well.
Brutal Bruno	Posted - 2010.01.20 18:16:00 - [25] Why not just make concord take belt survailence and convo miners.
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.20 19:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Brutal Bruno Why not just make concord take belt survailence and convo miners. I like this idea too!
Khristyna	Posted - 2010.01.20 20:42:00 - [27] I, for one, welcome our new captcha bearing overroids.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.20 22:03:00 - [28] Originally by: amarian arch Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:14:07 Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:13:53 sorry double post Ma it "30th thread with the same proposal". Always shooted down because: 1) chaptca can be bypassed by macros; 2) extremely annoying for players (and not for most macromienrs as owner will only need to do that once for each belt in your proposal and they get paid to do that); 3) way more disruptive for new miners with a mining frigate and little cargo that for hulks; 4) immersion breaking. Try to search if there are previous thread with the same suggestion next time.
nesdaq	Posted - 2010.01.20 23:09:00 - [29] Originally by: amarian arch Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to Shoot the rats? fixed for macro ratters =]
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.20 23:35:00 - [30] Originally by: nesdaq Originally by: amarian arch Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to Shoot the rats? fixed for macro ratters =] and then we get the same for pvp? especially suicide ganking. right?

amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.21 00:42:00 - [31] Edited by: amarian arch on 21/01/2010 00:44:32 Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: amarian arch Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:14:07 Edited by: amarian arch on 19/01/2010 21:13:53 sorry double post Ma it "30th thread with the same proposal". Always shooted down because: 1) chaptca can be bypassed by macros; 2) extremely annoying for players (and not for most macromienrs as owner will only need to do that once for each belt in your proposal and they get paid to do that); 3) way more disruptive for new miners with a mining frigate and little cargo that for hulks; 4) immersion breaking. Try to search if there are previous thread with the same suggestion next time. solution if most programs can bypass captchas dont use standard text or font and use custom tailored symbols? Not to mention the player would still have to constantly re arrange the code every time the bot went back out to mine? Dont most macro miners constantly work with no one around and are constantly mining for hours and hours on end? So unless the guy wants to sit there for hours on hours on end reentering the code dont you think he wont do it?
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.21 00:48:00 - [32] Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: nesdaq Originally by: amarian arch Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to Shoot the rats? fixed for macro ratters =] and then we get the same for pvp? especially suicide ganking. right? A i did not say that and a few idiots with geddons and smart bombs aint going to stop em.
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2010.01.21 01:00:00 - [33] I would love to have my mining experience enhanced by having to type a captcha every time I activated my mining lasers, it would be fun and give me something to do. Hint - get a bloody grip. Why would anybody play a game that forces them to enter captchas?
Hesperius	Posted - 2010.01.21 01:51:00 - [34] Just give me a license to kill. That would solve it. Till I get bored of it.
Ryhss Caldari The Templar Navy SRS.	Posted - 2010.01.21 05:23:00 - [35] Originally by: amarian arch Add a Concord security key of randomly generated numbers and letters that a pilot has to enter before they beging to mine roids? Kind of like those capcha things some sites have you need to prove you're human? This is my sig, stop reading.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2010.01.22 12:12:00 - [36] Quote: 1. The player can freely warp to the belt without any troubles or security popups. 2. Once the player is in the belt and has targeted an asteroid, before they can activate their mining modules on the asteroid the security key pops up. 3. The player completes the security key thus unlocking the ability to mine in the belt for one session.(IE till the player warps back to station) Macroers will adapt. 1. Fly to belt, manualy enter security key. START MACRO 2. macro mins into Jetcan, secure can whatever 3. Hauler runs a macro warping back and forth between Can and station. Please dont think I am against these ideas, I want them to work as much as you do... I just dont want my game immersion broken due to having to prove i am a human every 5 mins.
amarian arch	Posted - 2010.01.22 12:21:00 - [37] Originally by: Jint Hikaru Quote: 1. The player can freely warp to the belt without any troubles or security popups. 2. Once the player is in the belt and has targeted an asteroid, before they can activate their mining modules on the asteroid the security key pops up. 3. The player completes the security key thus unlocking the ability to mine in the belt for one session.(IE till the player warps back to station) Macroers will adapt. 1. Fly to belt, manualy enter security key. START MACRO 2. macro mins into Jetcan, secure can whatever 3. Hauler runs a macro warping back and forth between Can and station. Please dont think I am against these ideas, I want them to work as much as you do... I just dont want my game immersion broken due to having to prove i am a human every 5 mins. but you can still atleast steal the ****!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.22 13:03:00 - [38] Originally by: amarian arch solution if most programs can bypass captchas dont use standard text or font and use custom tailored symbols? Not to mention the player would still have to constantly re arrange the code every time the bot went back out to mine? Dont most macro miners constantly work with no one around and are constantly mining for hours and hours on end? So unless the guy wants to sit there for hours on hours on end reentering the code dont you think he wont do it? Most macros are 1 guy working ten or more exumers at the same time and being paid by someone (isk farming shop) to do that. So he would do it. While the guy mining with a frigate will get feed up in no time and swear to never touch a mining laser in this game.
Ramon Wilco Caldari Psycho Corp	Posted - 2010.01.22 13:44:00 - [39] I think mining could be a more exciting thing, just by setting npc's more dangerous in belts. That way it will benefit all players and corporations. Mining will became a more dangerous proffession, it will also encourage mission runners to change and help other players in-game. And macro miners could just use this if there are some people to protect them. I know, you can argue that some people will use macro defenders, but if you have some npc with ECM, ECCM, repair, warp scramble... i think its a way to improve mining without having to scan every belt in the game. (by the way after scanning a belt, you can then using macro so...)
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.01.22 13:53:00 - [40] CAPTCHAs are a disease on the same level as the macros they are trying to prevent. It's like shooting yourself in the head because you have a migraine.



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