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Sdwinder	Posted - 2010.01.22 18:53:00 - [1] Edited by: Sdwinder on 22/01/2010 18:54:47 So i have a drake at the moment, ive managed to get his skills pretty well up there, with my current setup i can tank 488 dps and i can dish out 230 dps with only missiles, with drones its more like 280. 7 t2 HML with EM (Sanshas space) 2 LSE 1 em hardeners t2 1 em amp t2 1 heat amp t2 1 recharger t2 3 shield relay t2 1 BCU t2 all purgers on rigs I was exploring a starter raven fit, and i was using evehq to do it. now according to evehq my drake can tank better than any fitting i can find for the raven, plus its passive, the raven with the x=large shield turned on will last for about 1.5 minutes and for the life of me its impossible to get the cap to be stable enough to permarun the booster, i dont know how people are doing it, i stuck cap rechargers everywhere i could, i even sacrificed all dps just to see if i could do it, and i cant. Basically i really want to switch to a raven fit, but it just doesnt seem possible, i think im doing something wrong, anybody know a good pve raven fit for doing anoms and 0.0 ratting? oh and as a side note....with the x-large booster on and the shield boost amps, my ravens tank is barely better than drake...but as i said, it goes for like 2 minutes at most, then the tank dps will die to like 35 dps since cap is gonna be gone.
Kijo Rikki Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:00:00 - [2] I was in the same boat you are until recently, some of my skill training finally made it possible to fly my raven properly. Ideally you want the skills to fit xlarge SB, 2 invuls, 2 cap rechargers, 3 cap power relays and 2 cap rigs. At my current skill level this allows me to permarun the booster and invul fields (assuming im not neuted, dunno how thats works out, havent seen it done to me yet) cap stable at 36% (with invuls instead of specific hardeners it drains after 32 minutes). The biggest thing I think was getting my cap recharge/cap power relay affecting skills to a level where I can run t2 versions. t1 or named i think its not cap stable iirc. Anyway 2 invuls mission specific and an xl SB permarunning should be fine for almost every mission, they wont even take you past 90% unles its like, the angels extravaganza bonus room (if this is the case, turn an about face and run, nothing can tank that!) You can also cap booster fit it, you can actually pull more damage this way by forgoing cap relays in the lows for bcu's and even slapping a tp in the extra mid slot youll gain.
Cairas	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:01:00 - [3] Edited by: Cairas on 22/01/2010 19:04:13 1. You don't perma-run the shield booster. 2. Use CCC rigs on the raven (Capacitor Control Circuit). 3. If you already have T2 HML's, you might be better off just going for the Tengu instead. 4. If you're using shield hardeners, it's not a passive tank, it's just not boosted. No cap still means dead - passive tanks use no cap. A general raven setup includes: Highs: 6 cruise missile launchers and a NOS with an extra slot for whatever you want (maybe a 2nd NOS). Mids: 1 shield booster, 1 shield boost amp, at least 2 shield hardeners and maybe a target painter. Lows: 1 or 2 PDS, 2 or 3 BCS and maybe a DC if you're feeling insecure about your tank. [Editted to clarify a few terms and add the following.] This means that you pulse the shield booster as needed and might even elect to keep a frigate or cruiser alive longer than you otherwise would due to it's usefulness as a cap recharger via the NOS. If needed you can add a 2nd NOS, btw. You should never really have cap issues with the setup I've given.
Kijo Rikki Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:05:00 - [4] Originally by: Cairas 1. You don't perma-run the shield booster. I do!
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:06:00 - [5] Raven 6x CN Cruise/II (CN/T2 missiles), Tractor, Salvager CN XL, Hvy Cap Booster II (800s), 3 Hardener IIs, PWNAGE 4 CN BCU, DC II 3 Rigor I 5x Med Drones, 5x Light Drones You'll find it deals a lot more damage than your Drake, and the cap booster should help you get used to the cap unstable booster. At first you might have to return to base to pick up cap boosters, but I think even with that you'll find it finishes missions faster than the Drake in question... but eventually it just turns into a raw monster mission pwn machine. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:10:00 - [6] Tanking a Drake is dead easy but with BS it is bit more difficult, it's obvious that you've been having it easy due to the massive overpowerednes of drake tanking/PVE. Welcome to the "real stuff" where you'll have to learn about how cap recharge actually works and how the passive shield regen, while not a lot, helps your tanking still. You don't NEED a fully cap stable setup at all. If you know what you're doing you can get away with a 3 minute tank simply by switching it on and off at the right times. You can even go less than that and fit a cap booster helping you in times of need, that's a viable pve setup. In fact, you've given me a nice new topic for yet another video, check my ingame bio for handy EVE tutorials :) ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Sdwinder	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:29:00 - [7] well her eis my problem....my drake can tank 480 dps and is perfectly cap stable, raven can tank same amount but runs out of cap in 1 minute even if i dont run the shield all the time, that just decreases the tanking doesnt it? numberwise it doesnt add up. 480dps tank with cap stable vs 480 dps tank with a 2 minute cap keep in mind this will be used as pve anomoly running (im trying to find a raven fit that can solo anoms in 0.0 quickly cause the dps on my drake is crappy, trying to speed things up, i wanna keep the drake for pvp)
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:32:00 - [8] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/01/2010 19:33:47 Originally by: Sdwinder ... I thought about preemptively responding to this post. Drake pilots are all the same... so predictable. :) -Liang Ed: Note that I knew what you were going to say and said what I said anyway? At any rate - if your 0.0 space is safe, then the Raven is probably still the way to go. Might want to downgrade to T2 for the most part, and the DC II -> Co Proc II. But the Drake can fit a MWD without being too negatively affected, so it's probably the right choice for you - at least until you get a Nighthawk or Tengu. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Kijo Rikki Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:34:00 - [9] I used to swear by the drake, the mighty mighty drake! Now I've seen the light.
Sdwinder	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Sdwinder ... I thought about preemptively responding to this post. Drake pilots are all the same... so predictable. :) -Liang well ya...all drake pilots fly the drake...and theres really only 1 efficient way to fly teh drake in pve...sooo....what was ur point again? :)

Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:36:00 - [11] Originally by: Sdwinder and theres really only 1 efficient way to fly teh drake in pve This is true, and it isn't the way you're fitting it. Also, check the edit. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Sdwinder	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:42:00 - [12] im sorry but ive lost you on the MWD issue, are you referring to refitting the drake to pvp once i get a pve raven?
AnKahn Caldari Unknown-Entity Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:45:00 - [13] I think what you will find if you read the four thousand Drake to Raven posts of the last 3 years (think there's a website called evesearch.com or something) is.. Damage is also tank. Don't HAVE to permarun boosters. Swich out cap mods for damage mods in the lows (BCUs) and the mids (TP). Cap booster for emergencies. Use increased damage to decrease incoming damage quickly. Bottom line is you have to run missions better by managing aggro(better). Little scary but thats's a good thing. Or sleepl thru missions by running them slowly in a Drake.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Sdwinder im sorry but ive lost you on the MWD issue, are you referring to refitting the drake to pvp once i get a pve raven? Um, no. I was referring to it being wise to have a MWD on every ship you own in 0.0 (for PVE and for PVP alike). But if you wanna brick fit, that's your business. At any rate, yeah, the Drake is awesome and everyone who flies Ravens is stupid because the Drake is way better. It has a better tank, afterall. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Sdwinder	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:50:00 - [15] i wasnt saying that, i was saying that according to EFT and evehq that even if i permarun the booster on a raven, the drake can still tank more, now obviously im missing something or some kind of key detail in the mechanics of shield boosters because obviously you dont need to run it all the time and can run it when needed. Im wondering how that works, because numberwise the raven can only tank about 30 dps passively and thats with all resistance fields turned on. So im thinking im missing something as far as shield boost mechanics and how it works, i was wondering if anyone can spot the flaw in my logic and please point it out to me, because ide rather know now before i go buy a raven.
Kijo Rikki Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:53:00 - [16] Are you still looking at the numbers for passive recharge on a raven? Need to change that to active to see what you're really doing. I don't have numbers only pictures in my head, on a hard l4 mission my drake will ride the peak recharge comfortably. On that same mission my permarun raven will sit at full shields or any damage it takes is repped back up next cycle.
Sdwinder	Posted - 2010.01.22 19:56:00 - [17] no what i mean is that in the numbers i turn on the shield booster and the tank dps hits about 490 or so (and cap is drained in like 80 seconds), when i make the module inactive with the resistance stuff still turned on it drops down to around 40 or so (cap stable). my drake with all resistance stuff turned on (which is only 1 active module, the rest are passive amps and rechargers) i hit 488 and am cap stable. thats what im looking at right now
Kijo Rikki Caldari Swarm of Angry Bees	Posted - 2010.01.22 20:01:00 - [18] And, assuming you had mids to play with, have you considered a cap booster with 800 caps in your cargo bay to cirvcumvent your cap issues? I use CCC/CPR/CR to permarun mine, I have the skillset for it. If you dont, the cap booster and about 15 caps in cargo bay should be fine (its probably overkill honestly) to complete l4 missions, and the lack of CPR means you can fill the lows with bcu and the extra midslot (taking away 2 CR and replacing with 1 cap booster) allows you to fit a TP which makes the raven hit incredibly hard (over my permarun setup)
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.22 20:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Sdwinder ... Comments: - The Raven deals a lot more damage than the Drake once you stop trying to make a Drake out of it. - Dead rats do no damage. Thus, you don't have to tank 500 DPS for any kind of sustained time. - Your shield EHP are part of your tank (this is why resists > boost amp for unstable fits). - While the passive recharge from a Raven is not negligible, it is hardly your tank. - If you're concerned about cap, fit a cap booster. If you're still concerned, fit cap safeguards. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Sdwinder	Posted - 2010.01.22 20:45:00 - [20] I think you guys are correct, my problem is that im looking at the raven as an active drake and comparing the two when i shouldnt be, im gonna give the fit a shot and see how it goes this weekend, thanks a lot guys.

Dracoknight Strategic Syndicate Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.22 22:17:00 - [21] Well, i was in the same boat myself once But i tried a lvl 4 once in a drake and quickly found out the DPS output would rather kill the Rat of boredom, and also a waste of ammo imo since the HMLs use a little too much to kill a so-so BS rat. I use a active fit on my Raven, and used the range to my advantage in the start, with cruise missiles you take out the big ships while you let the drones kill the frigs and cruisers as they come closer and closer. The only negative is due to the long range, the time you need to salvage and the risk of getting your mission item stolen. So if you try to range tank, run in a direction and use drones to kill any frigs and cruisers coming your way and snipe the BSes, and if you have a little unstable tank, need ammo or anything, be sure to aglin to anything while you range tank so you can quickly escape a situation. I think this is the safest way you can learn how to use a BS in missions and learn about the different missions. ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.22 22:46:00 - [22] There have only been two cases where I've had to run my X-L booster continuously: A) I screwed up royally and aggro'd the entire room. B) Angels Extravaganza bonus room (which I just skip now).
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.23 03:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Kijo Rikki I was in the same boat you are until recently, some of my skill training finally made it possible to fly my raven properly. Ideally you want the skills to fit xlarge SB, 2 invuls, 2 cap rechargers, 3 cap power relays and 2 cap rigs. At my current skill level this allows me to permarun the booster and invul fields (assuming im not neuted, dunno how thats works out, havent seen it done to me yet) cap stable at 36% (with invuls instead of specific hardeners it drains after 32 minutes). This fit is not proper. Originally by: Kijo Rikki You can also cap booster fit it, you can actually pull more damage this way by forgoing cap relays in the lows for bcu's and even slapping a tp in the extra mid slot youll gain. This is the way to go. Using one mid slot instead of a half dozen slots means you can put out a lot more dps and still have all the cap you need. To the OP: IMHO, the base skills you need to fly a raven are cruise missiles III, Caldari BS III, and the ability to deploy 5 drones. Support skills should be at III as well. This is minimum. T2 drones and support skills at IV would be safer, but really isn't necessary. The most important skill for a new raven pilot is the ability to read eve-survival and understand triggers and aggro management. Keep aligned to the closest station after you warp in. Make sure your overview shows ewar icons. Kill any scramming frigs immediately so if you need to gtfo, you can insta warp to the station to recharge your shield and cap. If you need to warp out, train tank skills. If you don't need to warp out, train dps skills. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Hopea Solv Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.23 05:52:00 - [24] I use this, just use shield booster when needed and cap booster when you need to run it for a sustained period, sure this fit isn't perfect but it seems to work ok. I was in a drake for over a year it's hard to go from agro everything and go to sleep to actually having to work but missions go so much faster in raven and having to work makes the mission fun. 6 Cruise II 1 X-large booster 2 1 Heavy cap booster 2 1 PWNAGE 3 Hardeners II (specific to enemy) 3 BCS II 2 PDS II 3 Large CCC Haven't done angel xtra, did have to warp on enemies abounnd, and recon 1, no chance of tanking recon, had to get a corpy in a tank drake, but don't think any raven could tank that unless they did huge dps and not have too many waves on them at once.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.23 16:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Hopea Solv I use this, just use shield booster when needed and cap booster when you need to run it for a sustained period, sure this fit isn't perfect but it seems to work ok. I was in a drake for over a year it's hard to go from agro everything and go to sleep to actually having to work but missions go so much faster in raven and having to work makes the mission fun. 6 Cruise II 1 X-large booster 2 1 Heavy cap booster 2 1 PWNAGE 3 Hardeners II (specific to enemy) 3 BCS II 2 PDS II 3 Large CCC Haven't done angel xtra, did have to warp on enemies abounnd, and recon 1, no chance of tanking recon, had to get a corpy in a tank drake, but don't think any raven could tank that unless they did huge dps and not have too many waves on them at once. Why do you have the 2 PDSs and 3 CCCs when you have a heavy cap booster 2? With the cap booster + 800s, you don't need any other cap modules at all. If you threw some rigor rigs on there and more BCSs you would find yourself finishing missions a LOT faster. At the very least you should do the rigors. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.01.23 16:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Hopea Solv no chance of tanking recon... 1. your fit is bad 2. recon /at least sansha version, but id say all with rats that use guns... and guristas have very good damage type to tank with shields/ can be 'tanked' just by launching light drones
Hopea Solv Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.23 23:54:00 - [27] Didn't fit damage rigs as didn't have any cpu left, should be able to drop a pds though. CCC's are cheap and have no penalty...
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.24 02:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Hopea Solv Didn't fit damage rigs as didn't have any cpu left, should be able to drop a pds though. CCC's are cheap and have no penalty... Can you not even fit one rigor? I ask because I started out with that newb Raven in battleclinic and ran it for a long time. Switching to rigor made a HUGE difference in my mission time. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Hopea Solv Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.24 02:44:00 - [29] I could buy a cpu implant, I like the booster as it's great for when you screw up agro, and other than a implant haven't found a way to fit more dps. As for rigor rigs I usually let my medium drones kill them after the lights have dealt with the frigs, I can understand rigors would let me kill cruisers alot faster, but wouldn't it be more use full to fit calefaction or flare as to do more damage to all types including bs's?


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