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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:02:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lianhaun on 09/12/2004 00:06:03
When you dream there are no laws of physics
I do experience laws of physics
I am not dreaming
Are you discussing Descartes at the moment or anything?
Oh, your second premise of your first argument can be false
Premise 2) Choices are voluntary
You can argue that humans are nothing more then animals controlled by instinct and with a little you can easily rule out free will and thus voluntary choices.
This is not a hijack
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:02:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Lianhaun on 09/12/2004 00:06:03
When you dream there are no laws of physics
I do experience laws of physics
I am not dreaming
Are you discussing Descartes at the moment or anything?
Oh, your second premise of your first argument can be false
Premise 2) Choices are voluntary
You can argue that humans are nothing more then animals controlled by instinct and with a little you can easily rule out free will and thus voluntary choices.
This is not a hijack
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:07:00 -
[33]
If live is a but a dream you will only know so when you wake up.
You cannot give a final answer on this because there is no way to test it, it is impossible to get out of your dream and see if you are dreaming. Neither can someone else.
You'll need a 'god'perspective ( something out of the human reality anyway) to give a final answer on it.
Descartes as well finally knocks on God's door 
This is not a hijack
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:07:00 -
[34]
If live is a but a dream you will only know so when you wake up.
You cannot give a final answer on this because there is no way to test it, it is impossible to get out of your dream and see if you are dreaming. Neither can someone else.
You'll need a 'god'perspective ( something out of the human reality anyway) to give a final answer on it.
Descartes as well finally knocks on God's door
This is not a hijack
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:09:00 -
[35]
"If any of you are up for the challenge then throw out some of your own arguments to prove you are not currently asleep and dreaming."
Someone already mentioned reading... can't remember why but it's supposedly very hard to read while asleep and dreaming (something to do with different brain sections being utilized) So if i were asleep, i couldn't actually read this thread, so i couldn't reply to it (or read my reply) And if your teacher was asleep, they wouldn't be able to read your paper including the argument about difficulty of reading while asleep... ;s
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:09:00 -
[36]
"If any of you are up for the challenge then throw out some of your own arguments to prove you are not currently asleep and dreaming."
Someone already mentioned reading... can't remember why but it's supposedly very hard to read while asleep and dreaming (something to do with different brain sections being utilized) So if i were asleep, i couldn't actually read this thread, so i couldn't reply to it (or read my reply) And if your teacher was asleep, they wouldn't be able to read your paper including the argument about difficulty of reading while asleep... ;s
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:12:00 -
[37]
 Originally by: j0sephine
"If any of you are up for the challenge then throw out some of your own arguments to prove you are not currently asleep and dreaming."
Someone already mentioned reading... can't remember why but it's supposedly very hard to read while asleep and dreaming (something to do with different brain sections being utilized) So if i were asleep, i couldn't actually read this thread, so i couldn't reply to it (or read my reply) And if your teacher was asleep, they wouldn't be able to read your paper including the argument about difficulty of reading while asleep... ;s
Very hard wont be enough, it has to be absolutly impossible for a human to read in a dream.
Philosophy is about closing off options and not about 'thinsg being very hard'.
If it is very hard you can still ask 'what if it was possible for this one person too etc etc'
This is not a hijack
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:12:00 -
[38]
Originally by: j0sephine
"If any of you are up for the challenge then throw out some of your own arguments to prove you are not currently asleep and dreaming."
Someone already mentioned reading... can't remember why but it's supposedly very hard to read while asleep and dreaming (something to do with different brain sections being utilized) So if i were asleep, i couldn't actually read this thread, so i couldn't reply to it (or read my reply) And if your teacher was asleep, they wouldn't be able to read your paper including the argument about difficulty of reading while asleep... ;s
Very hard wont be enough, it has to be absolutly impossible for a human to read in a dream.
Philosophy is about closing off options and not about 'thinsg being very hard'.
If it is very hard you can still ask 'what if it was possible for this one person too etc etc'
This is not a hijack
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:17:00 -
[39]
"Very hard wont be enough, it has to be absolutly impossible for a human to read in a dream."
I said very hard since i can't remember if it's been proved it's absolutely 100% impossible. But if the arguments are expected to involve absolutes, then i think we're going to have problem with the very task itself -- because how do you define dream in the first place, and can anyone prove with absolute certainty that this definition of dream will apply for every single human being in existence? ^^;
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.09 00:17:00 -
[40]
"Very hard wont be enough, it has to be absolutly impossible for a human to read in a dream."
I said very hard since i can't remember if it's been proved it's absolutely 100% impossible. But if the arguments are expected to involve absolutes, then i think we're going to have problem with the very task itself -- because how do you define dream in the first place, and can anyone prove with absolute certainty that this definition of dream will apply for every single human being in existence? ^^;
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.09 01:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: j0sephine
Someone already mentioned reading... can't remember why but it's supposedly very hard to read while asleep and dreaming (something to do with different brain sections being utilized) So if i were asleep, i couldn't actually read this thread, so i couldn't reply to it (or read my reply) And if your teacher was asleep, they wouldn't be able to read your paper including the argument about difficulty of reading while asleep... ;s
Where did you hear that it is hard to (or impossible to read) while asleep? You're life from your earliest memory could very well have been a dream so all known physics and science were told to you in a dream so they don't necesserily apply. If that is the case then it doesn't really matter since even if it is a dream it is more real to you at that time than real life.
As for me I'm now fully convinced that I am asleep and will wake up any minute now... well one can hope 
__________
Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.12.09 01:20:00 -
[42]
Originally by: j0sephine
Someone already mentioned reading... can't remember why but it's supposedly very hard to read while asleep and dreaming (something to do with different brain sections being utilized) So if i were asleep, i couldn't actually read this thread, so i couldn't reply to it (or read my reply) And if your teacher was asleep, they wouldn't be able to read your paper including the argument about difficulty of reading while asleep... ;s
Where did you hear that it is hard to (or impossible to read) while asleep? You're life from your earliest memory could very well have been a dream so all known physics and science were told to you in a dream so they don't necesserily apply. If that is the case then it doesn't really matter since even if it is a dream it is more real to you at that time than real life.
As for me I'm now fully convinced that I am asleep and will wake up any minute now... well one can hope
__________
Capacitor research |
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.12.09 01:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Very hard wont be enough, it has to be absolutly impossible for a human to read in a dream."
I said very hard since i can't remember if it's been proved it's absolutely 100% impossible. But if the arguments are expected to involve absolutes, then i think we're going to have problem with the very task itself -- because how do you define dream in the first place, and can anyone prove with absolute certainty that this definition of dream will apply for every single human being in existence? ^^;
Just to settle the discussion on whether it's possible or not to read while dreaming : It's possible, I've done it. However, it was very difficult and the letters kept changing until I read them - I could only keep my focus on 2-3 letters at a time, the rest kept changing all the time. I was also completely unable to read the same section twice - it made me phase out to another dream or read something completely different.
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.12.09 01:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Very hard wont be enough, it has to be absolutly impossible for a human to read in a dream."
I said very hard since i can't remember if it's been proved it's absolutely 100% impossible. But if the arguments are expected to involve absolutes, then i think we're going to have problem with the very task itself -- because how do you define dream in the first place, and can anyone prove with absolute certainty that this definition of dream will apply for every single human being in existence? ^^;
Just to settle the discussion on whether it's possible or not to read while dreaming : It's possible, I've done it. However, it was very difficult and the letters kept changing until I read them - I could only keep my focus on 2-3 letters at a time, the rest kept changing all the time. I was also completely unable to read the same section twice - it made me phase out to another dream or read something completely different.
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.12.09 01:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Dust Puppy
You're life from your earliest memory could very well have been a dream so all known physics and science were told to you in a dream so they don't necesserily apply. If that is the case then it doesn't really matter since even if it is a dream it is more real to you at that time than real life.
That is probably not so far from the truth. For all we know, the dream world might be our link to the real world - so that in fact we are all dreaming and just waiting to wake up.
Of course, it all depends on how you define the word "dream". My point is that our way of relating to dreams vs "real life" might actually be the complete opposite to the truth.
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.12.09 01:37:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dust Puppy
You're life from your earliest memory could very well have been a dream so all known physics and science were told to you in a dream so they don't necesserily apply. If that is the case then it doesn't really matter since even if it is a dream it is more real to you at that time than real life.
That is probably not so far from the truth. For all we know, the dream world might be our link to the real world - so that in fact we are all dreaming and just waiting to wake up.
Of course, it all depends on how you define the word "dream". My point is that our way of relating to dreams vs "real life" might actually be the complete opposite to the truth.
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.12.09 01:48:00 -
[47]
I sure hope your right about us trying to get back to the real world.
I won 1 million dollars in my last dream....
---
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.12.09 01:48:00 -
[48]
I sure hope your right about us trying to get back to the real world.
I won 1 million dollars in my last dream....
---
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.12.09 02:00:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Shade Widow
I sure hope your right about us trying to get back to the real world.
I won 1 million dollars in my last dream....
afaik money means nothing in that world though...
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.12.09 02:00:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Shade Widow
I sure hope your right about us trying to get back to the real world.
I won 1 million dollars in my last dream....
afaik money means nothing in that world though...
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.12.09 02:13:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Shade Widow on 09/12/2004 02:19:35
As far as I could remember, I was fairly happy in that dream. Not like the time when I was running from some sort of wierd monster thingy, but my legs wouldnt frekin go faster.
Wait a sec.... for some reason that feels really wierd....
Remembering that dream brought back a wierd feeling...
Ive died so many times in my dreams. Well I wake up right before the death anyways.
---
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.12.09 02:13:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Shade Widow on 09/12/2004 02:19:35
As far as I could remember, I was fairly happy in that dream. Not like the time when I was running from some sort of wierd monster thingy, but my legs wouldnt frekin go faster.
Wait a sec.... for some reason that feels really wierd....
Remembering that dream brought back a wierd feeling...
Ive died so many times in my dreams. Well I wake up right before the death anyways.
---
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.12.09 02:18:00 -
[53]
Next time you dream, try to look at your hands. If you are able to do that, and also able to remember what you see, you will probably understand why that feels weird.
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Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.12.09 02:18:00 -
[54]
Next time you dream, try to look at your hands. If you are able to do that, and also able to remember what you see, you will probably understand why that feels weird.
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.12.09 02:28:00 -
[55]
Why are the hands all distorted or something?
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.12.09 02:28:00 -
[56]
Why are the hands all distorted or something?
---
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