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Dia'Sarbator
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Posted - 2010.01.26 05:46:00 -
[1]
I am not entirely sure this is the correct place for this topic of discussion but here it goes.
Crime and Punishment. If you do a crime in high sec you have a punishment of loosing security status. With this there are drawbacks. Loosing security status lowers the securty of the system in which you are "safe." Each -1.0 you have brings you down .1 in "safe" space. Once at -5.0 you are KOS to everyone.
What is the benifet of being a Law Obiding capsuleer? We do not gain protection into low sec as our security status gains. Shouldn't the benifet inverse the Penalty ? I propose that for each +1.0 you gain protection further into low sec. This would of course end at the bourders of said states systems and go no lower then .1 security status.
Pirates gasp and awe with regards to this concept.
Ok now the reasoning i have for this can be grouped into 3 catigories
1) Increaseing the use of Low sec
2) Giving a logical reason for being a law obiding citizen
3) Increasing the use of dub'd usless ships IE Roqual.
Now with this i feel the systems needs to be re-balanced in regards to security status. Giving more space for pirates to roam while High security charicters are gaining access to lower security systems.
There are other changes that would make this more logical. Decreasing the yeild of Strip Miners on rocks that have a base M3 value the average rock in highsec by 1/2. This is the same concept of trying to hit a frigate with XL rail guns.... can happen but not likely. 1/2 the size of all rocks in high sec while doubling there density in the belts. This will push hulks into lower sec systems. This will give most miners the insentive to move to lower systems while also giving them the security they deserve if they work for it.
No one is going to force anyone to have higher security status but it will reward people for doing so. Pirates will have more targets in low sec and more low sec to patroll. Pirates will also have to be Pirates and not the gatecampers they are today.
Pirates would actualy have to check someones Security status to see if they would be willing to risk attacking them.
Higher quality ores will be the reward for Miners as lower sec systems have bigger roids of better quality.
Mission runners will be able to keep runing missions in lower systems as they develop there charicters.
Ultimatly If you do the crime you have to do the time no ? Pirates might end up being pushed to lower security regions due to higher traffic with charicters that have the ability to enforce the law uppon offenders with out being ****d at gates. This will make low sec a bit more dynamic due to increasing the security for charicters that don't have high security status to fleet with those whom do for security. In the end this comes down to a win / win for Pirates get more space while tree huggers get the security they have always wanted.
Thoughts?
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Dia'Sarbator
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Posted - 2010.01.26 05:53:00 -
[2]
~Reserved~
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.26 05:54:00 -
[3]
lols so wrong on so many levels.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar
Final Agony
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:03:00 -
[4]
I'm all for making having a security status above -2.0 mean something other than more suicide ganks, but I think, "wrong on so many levels" understates how clueless the OP is.
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Dopekitten
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:05:00 -
[5]
Because you have amused the overlord, the overlord shall speak out of character.
Fine. We can have your system under two conditions.
1) The only thing that increases security status is killing people with negative security status, and then ONLY in low sec. (If I am wrong here, I apologize) Therefore it becomes a risk/reward system where if you spend enough time in low sec, killing pirates, you can gain security status such that Concord is willing to protect you in those areas, i.e. 0.4 to 0.1.
2) Second, I think your idea about the rock yield being higher in low sec is a good idea as well. Make it such that people mining in lowsec can make similar or more money through mining without using a hulk--thus giving an incentive for lower SP players to mine in low sec from the get-go.
The issue as your plan stands right now is that people will simply grind good sec-status in high sec and then move to lowsec one that security status is high enough--thus they are never exposed to any sort of danger ever.
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Dilligafmofo
Gallente
Chaos From Order
Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:05:00 -
[6]
Yup,like playing with yourself in an elevator 
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Dopekitten
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:10:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Dilligafmofo
Edited by: Dilligafmofo on 26/01/2010 06:05:47
You haven't really thought this through.
This superfluous comment is off topic. I do not appreciate this.
I intend to express my views about off topic posts with gentleness and respect. It may help if I begin my discussion by relating an innocuous story in order to illustrate my point: A few days ago I was arguing with a particularly arrogant pest who was insisting that off topic posts have value. I tried to convince this piteous, egocentric control freak that off topic posts are burdened with the dead weight of the most salacious conceptions and prejudices. That shouldn't surprise you when you consider that I overheard one of its cheerleaders say, "All literature that opposes sesquipedalianism was forged by thrasonical, superficial half-wits (also known as off topic posters' janissaries)." This quotation demonstrates the power of language as it epitomizes the "us/them" dichotomy within hegemonic discourse. As for me, I prefer to use language to make technical preparations for the achievement of freedom and human independence. And that's why I say to you: Have courage. Be honest. And move as expeditiously as possible to build a society in which people have a sense of permanence and stability, not chaos and uncertainty. That's the patriotic thing to do, and that's the right thing to do.
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Dilligafmofo
Gallente
Chaos From Order
Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:11:00 -
[8]
The comment was made at the initial poster. 
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Dopekitten
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:15:00 -
[9]
The overlord realizes this.
The overlord also realizes that you changed your comment from talking about "masturbating in an elevator" to the comment that it currently is. Please refrain from tomfoolery such as this.
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Ran Khanon
Amarr
Vengeance Innovations
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ran Khanon on 26/01/2010 06:52:20
Originally by: Dopekitten
The overlord realizes this.
The overlord also realizes that you changed your comment from talking about "masturbating in an elevator" to the comment that it currently is. Please refrain from tomfoolery such as this.
*chuckles*
Starting to dig this kitten.
Anyway, props to the OP for cooking up some alternative ideas to enhance the use of lowsec.
Personally I think that having Concord following you in there like personal bodyguards is not such a good idea.
Lowsec could also be more of a frequented area by more people by;
- Increasing the rewards of ratting/plexing/missioning there
To elaborate: CCP already implemented this and it looks to be their main tactic to lure people into lowsec and 0.0 but I think it is not enough; pirate factions and their rewards could be greatly expanded, if only in the amount of available agents.
- Increasing the actual size and layout of lowsec space
Why not have the highsec parts of space surrounded like islands by a sea of lowsec? People would have to travel through it to reach other, 'civilized' areas but by increasing the potential routes you can take, the pirates who would want to profit of innocent passers by would be spreaded much more thinly than now (to avoid having certain bottle neck systems where every pirate and their monkey resides).
edit: this last measure could very well instigate player organized services like 'Escorting corporations' who will protect your loaded convoys to Jita.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
What is the benifet of being a Law Obiding capsuleer?
Thoughts?
None at all.
It's every man for himself.
Always be ready to shoot your mother and climb into her body to stay warm, in case you get stranded in the arctic.
In game of course.
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Dilligafmofo
Gallente
Chaos From Order
Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dopekitten
The overlord realizes this.
The overlord also realizes that you changed your comment from talking about "masturbating in an elevator" to the comment that it currently is. Please refrain from tomfoolery such as this.
The force is strong in you Overlord. 
Loving your work Kitten 
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Dia'Sarbator
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dopekitten
Because you have amused the overlord, the overlord shall speak out of character.
Fine. We can have your system under two conditions.
1) The only thing that increases security status is killing people with negative security status, and then ONLY in low sec. (If I am wrong here, I apologize) Therefore it becomes a risk/reward system where if you spend enough time in low sec, killing pirates, you can gain security status such that Concord is willing to protect you in those areas, i.e. 0.4 to 0.1.
2) Second, I think your idea about the rock yield being higher in low sec is a good idea as well. Make it such that people mining in lowsec can make similar or more money through mining without using a hulk--thus giving an incentive for lower SP players to mine in low sec from the get-go.
The issue as your plan stands right now is that people will simply grind good sec-status in high sec and then move to lowsec one that security status is high enough--thus they are never exposed to any sort of danger ever.
I agree with your first point past say positive 2.0 status ... It is compleatly fair to need to pvp in order to gain access into this level. Or have security status dramaticly decrease by killing rats after 2.0 say 90 % reduction. Bringing everyone down in security status to 2.0 for the new system to work. Or even inflate the system to +2.0 = safe in .4 +4.0 = safe in .3 ect ect.... As it isn't exactly an easy task to grind security status above +6.0 for it already platues.
Now under your system Pirates are to include npc rats ? Because if your talking about Players it will leave the door open to Exploits like purposly having a -10.0 alt to gain faction to suicide gank.
with the rebalance of system security status .5 would be come like .4 and so on... reducing the space for Carebears. Forcing people to venture into lower security as there charicters advance. This would also concintrate Bots to a smaller area due to almost none of them having security status.
even at with this system incorperating Oasis's of high sec or .5 sec systems where factions like Mordu's Legion previal as security.
I am not hard set on the ways that it has to be this system... it's mearly just a draft.
Some benifets i see with this system would be the downfall of Bot Miners due to strip miners yeilding 1/2 or 1/3 what they do in high sec .... Pushing them to lower sec. With that happening the Mineral Market would actualy bounce back brining wealth back to PC miners...
Anouther thread that i found interesting which i'll have to find is a tread where it introduced the idea of increasing rat density in relation to how much m3 is being mined. This would make low sec mining ops even harder to Bot due to the number of waves being invoked via m3 being pulled in.
The comunity would gain in general due to new ventures like hired escorts. Alligning with a pirate faction might be come benifitial. Pirates will have access to Gear more readily with out needing an alt to transport it.
Pirates will get one thing they cannot resist which will be More targets.
I am not trying to troll the pirates i am honestly trying to come up with a system that actualy benifets good standing other then recovering from your last gank fest.
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Normin Bates
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dopekitten
tomfoolery
This word is surely underused in C&P.
+10 |
Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
What is the benifet of being a Law Obiding capsuleer?
Capsuleers are only bound by Darwinian laws. The benifit of obiding by Darwin's laws is survival, the penalty for breaking them, death. Security status indicates your alignment with CONCORD, not any kind of lawbreaking or law-abiding. Shoot enemies of CONCORD, get sec status. Shoot anyone who isn't an enemy of CONCORD, lose sec status.
Consider CONCORD to be the mother hen protecting all the young'uns still safe in highsec.
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w1ldt4ngent
SWARTA
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Always be ready to shoot your mother and climb into her body to stay warm, in case you get stranded in the arctic.
I spent 9 months trying to get out, what makes you think I want back in?!
In all seriousness, I agree with the OP that there should be a reward for being a law-abiding citizen, but I don't feel his/her idea of implementing it is the way to go. That would basically break the game, to sum it up. Props for getting the ball rolling on the idea though, we could discuss here what the rewards should be instead.
___________________________
Swartans! Tonight we dine in Hek! |
Dia'Sarbator
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: w1ldt4ngent
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Always be ready to shoot your mother and climb into her body to stay warm, in case you get stranded in the arctic.
I spent 9 months trying to get out, what makes you think I want back in?!
In all seriousness, I agree with the OP that there should be a reward for being a law-abiding citizen, but I don't feel his/her idea of implementing it is the way to go. That would basically break the game, to sum it up. Props for getting the ball rolling on the idea though, we could discuss here what the rewards should be instead.
Thanks for the Props
I wont lie i am pretty much a tree hugger.... i am ok with that i play the economy game more then anything...
I don't know if it would be game breaking as you would say it would be this system could be capped at .3 space and that's it... requiring 6.0 to be safe in .3 space ...
As it sits though we have virtually usless skills like the one to increase security status gains .... what point does that give us if there is no benifet.
I do think that my hulks should be pushed into lower sec regions but not bare naked.... they should have security from my security status.
I don't see where pirates will loose much as they gain more space and a ton more targets.
Bots get herded into systems where they will no longer be able to mine non stop due to reduced yeild.
I am curious though what benifet do you think Should be given with higher security status ? maybe heavily armed escorts to guard you as you are valued to concord more ?
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:57:00 -
[18]
The benefit of high security status = A warm fuzzy feeling?
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Laedy
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.26 08:43:00 -
[19]
The main benefits of a high sec status as I see it is:
- You get to look like a big carebear and can act like good bait in low sec.
- If you're at 5.0 sec status, you have a really nice big buffer for suicide ganking in high sec, before you get kicked out.
- You can be a weekend pirate (lose some sec status pirating, yet gain it back during the week with missions)
- You can do anything, go anywhere in EVE without hassle of police. Do wardecs, pirating or whatever.
These are all pvp-oriented though. If you're just a big carebear, then there's no benefit really.
Seriously though, put that sec status to good use, go smartbomb some shuttles or gank haulers or something. 
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Zcorm Narwarr
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:00:00 -
[20]
I think there already is a "benefit" for having a good security status. If you get attacked unlawfully by another player he will get a bigger security hit from you than attacking a low security status pilot.
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Amy Platt
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Laedy
Seriously though, put that sec status to good use, go smartbomb some shuttles or gank haulers or something.
dammit, why didn't I think of this, it's the perfect use of a +5.0 security status.
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Jack Dant
Minmatar
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:11:00 -
[22]
So, people with high sec status don't know what to do with it. While some people with low sec status spend hours working on improving it.
What we have here is a potential market. Allow carebears to sell off points of sec to suicide gankers, and both sides win 
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:26:00 -
[23]
not sure i agree wiht the OP, however..
it does seem odd to gain sec from killing pirate rats, which can only be lost by shooting players.
If you do not shoot players against their will in low sec, the sec means nothing.
It would be nice to have a reason to have a high sec, but seperating player kills/aggro against NPC kills now would be tough. While i like the idea of additional support in low sec, as an out of the box idea i feel that law abiding NPC killers should get a reduced sec hit rather than an increased one for aggressing a player in low sec.
the sec system atm means the hogher your sec the less you get from more npc skills, making getting to +5.0 hard as hell yet agressing a player hits you more the more sec you have.
and for the pirate side of life; your sec decrease hits get smaller the more people you kill and NPC kills give you a huge boost in the other direction. This way has been designed to allow players to 'work off' their low sec status and thats a good thing, but yet no reason to have a high sec if the reverse if true.
With the advent of FW and new ways to gain LP, sec etc it owuld be nice for ccp to create some kind of attractive bonuses to keeping your sec above say +2.0 rather than above -2.0 (for safe empire travel).
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Swalesey
Prosperity Through Violence
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:28:00 -
[24]
Hey guys I have been thinking that high sec is not profitable enough for no risk, And decided that we should also be allowed to use low security space and rorquals as high sec! what do you think guise? Also how about an invulnerability field actualy makes you invulnerable to attacks!
Also I was thinking, why don't ccp make all the modules free that would help new players.
Also, could we make eve so that 0.0 space is renamed fairy land, and the asteroids are actualy candyfloss and everywhere we go everyone hugs you and plays with your balls.
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Winterjack
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
Shouldn't the benifet inverse the Penalty ? I propose that for each +1.0 you gain protection further into low sec. This would of course end at the bourders of said states systems and go no lower then .1 security status.
No.
Quote:
1) Increaseing the use of Low sec
By making it hi-sec. Smart, but lame.
Quote:
2) Giving a logical reason for being a law obiding citizen
Law Abiding. Dunno if english is your native language, it's certainly not mine, but if I were you, I'd just use the words I know.
The reason for being a "honest" citizen is that you're better off by being one. You get hisec protection. You get more chances to be "bad" without being banned from hisec.
Quote:
3) Increasing the use of dub'd usless ships IE Roqual.
By making losec become hisec?
Quote:
Giving more space for pirates to roam while High security charicters are gaining access to lower security systems.
Actually this would just enlarge the hi-sec protection, with the added value that you have to watch everyone security status before engaging to avoid being concorded in losec.
Can't see anything good come from this.
Quote:
This will give most miners the insentive to move to lower systems while also giving them the security they deserve if they work for it.
Actually, this would just extend hisec to losec, making it easier for hulks to mine higher tier minerals, while macrominers would still mine veldspar in 1.0.
Quote:
Pirates will have more targets in low sec and more low sec to patroll. Pirates will also have to be Pirates and not the gatecampers they are today.
Please explain how increasing the safety of losec would give more targets to pirates.
Quote:
Pirates might end up being pushed to lower security regions due to higher traffic with charicters that have the ability to enforce the law uppon offenders with out being ****d at gates.
You claim they'll have more space, then that they'll be pushed further away.
Quote:
In the end this comes down to a win / win for Pirates get more space while tree huggers get the security they have always wanted.
The two things are mutually exclusive.
If pirates have targets, that means the targets are not safe. If they are safe, they are not targets.
Quote:
Thoughts?
Your logic is flawed.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
What is the benifet of being a Law Obiding capsuleer?
You can gank quite a few people and still be a law abiding citizen
EVE however is based on the principle of blowing up other peoples stuff... There thus shouldn't really be any benefits to NOT doing so!
Stop whining....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Dia'Sarbator
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Posted - 2010.01.26 11:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
What is the benifet of being a Law Obiding capsuleer?
You can gank quite a few people and still be a law abiding citizen
EVE however is based on the principle of blowing up other peoples stuff... There thus shouldn't really be any benefits to NOT doing so!
Stop whining....
I ask you to not troll this tread.
I mearly put out some thoughts with regards to the missing half of security status.
This could be used as a benifet to hunt pirates... there should be some benfit to make carebears rip off there supper stars and use there rainbow rays to try and fight back into low sec.
There should be something that a high sec charicter gains for there security. How game breaking would this be to give a benifet to high security status? It would just be the Yin to the Yang. We already have a penalty... where is the other half ?
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Winterjack
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Posted - 2010.01.26 11:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
I mearly put out some thoughts with regards to WHAT I CONSIDER THE missing half of security status.
Fixed your post.
Quote:
This could be used as a benifet to hunt pirates... there should be some benfit to make carebears rip off there supper stars and use there rainbow rays to try and fight back into low sec.
The carebears, by definition, won't fight in losec or nullsec. If they did, they would not be carebears. And this comes from a carebear: the moment I fight back I'm not a carebear anymore. Right?
Quote:
There should be something that a high sec charicter gains for there security. How game breaking would this be to give a benifet to high security status? It would just be the Yin to the Yang. We already have a penalty... where is the other half ?
So you want a high sec character to have an incentive to stay safe? I'd say we got enough of those.
High sec status IS a benefit. It's not an "attribute" or anything like that. Let me make an analogy.
You have 1000pts of shields. If you go down under 25%, your armor starts getting munched. This is a penalty.
Now what you are saying is that to balance it, to add a yin to the yang, we need to make it so that when your shield is over 75% you have a benefit. What's the point in having over 75% of shield points, if there's no benefit?
Very high security status is a buffer, just like shield points. When you go down too much, you suffer.
Again: your logic is flawed.
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.01.26 13:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Winterjack
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
I mearly put out some thoughts with regards to WHAT I CONSIDER THE missing half of security status.
Fixed your post.
We need a thumbs-up icon...
Originally by: Winterjack
Quote:
This could be used as a benifet to hunt pirates... there should be some benfit to make carebears rip off there supper stars and use there rainbow rays to try and fight back into low sec.
The carebears, by definition, won't fight in losec or nullsec. If they did, they would not be carebears. And this comes from a carebear: the moment I fight back I'm not a carebear anymore. Right?
More or less. Loss of carebearism is not defined by a single action, IMHO. I'd say the moment one starts to take responsibility for their security and attempts to gain an understanding of the mechanics, they start to lose their inner bear.
Won't stop me from calling any miner a carebear, though.
Originally by: Winterjack
Quote:
There should be something that a high sec charicter gains for there security. How game breaking would this be to give a benifet to high security status? It would just be the Yin to the Yang. We already have a penalty... where is the other half ?
So you want a high sec character to have an incentive to stay safe? I'd say we got enough of those.
High sec status IS a benefit. It's not an "attribute" or anything like that. Let me make an analogy.
You have 1000pts of shields. If you go down under 25%, your armor starts getting munched. This is a penalty.
Now what you are saying is that to balance it, to add a yin to the yang, we need to make it so that when your shield is over 75% you have a benefit. What's the point in having over 75% of shield points, if there's no benefit?
Like those 25%, we could make a skill that allows you to be safe in lowsec. level one = safe in 0.4, level 5 = safe in 0.0. 
Originally by: Winterjack
Very high security status is a buffer, just like shield points. When you go down too much, you suffer.
Again: your logic is flawed.
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Dia'Sarbator
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Posted - 2010.01.26 18:49:00 -
[30]
bump, hopefully we can get some more discussion going on with this idea.
Anyone else up for putting there 2cents with what the reward for having high security should be ?
~Dia~
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Fargoth Ur
Caldari
Problematique Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.26 19:05:00 -
[31]
This is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever read.
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Herty
The Sexy Carebear Boredom Convention
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Posted - 2010.01.26 20:16:00 -
[32]
What about people with a sec status above 5.0?
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Sadaris
Gallente
Smegnet Incorporated
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2010.01.26 21:36:00 -
[33]
I read up to 3) Increasing the use of dub'd usless ships IE Roqual. then realized your a idiot
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Diabolick
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Posted - 2010.01.26 22:29:00 -
[34]
What is the benefit of being a Law Abiding capsuleer?
My main is 5.0 sec, the best benefit I see is that when I do get time off from wardecs/contracts and hit lowsec, people in low populated lowsec do not see me as a threat and do not warp off as soon as I enter local, seconded by the fact that most wannaby gankers see a +5 sec and think "ooh a carebear - shiny" and come to me.
I get loot and killmails because of this, best reward possible imo.
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rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.01.26 22:47:00 -
[35]
someone needs to wardec this guy. hes 5.0 and in a 5 man corp, and is "barren asteriod" something or other corp and is obviously an asshat
id do it but im in WHs all the time -_-
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. |
hoodie scaryguy
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Posted - 2010.01.27 00:58:00 -
[36]
The benefit of having a high security status means that you can kill/suicide gank more people in hi/lowsec before you have to grind rats to get it up again. :D
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Stuart Price
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2010.01.27 01:07:00 -
[37]
You know us despicable pirate types use positive sec status as a kind of guide on the level of tears and emorage we can expect when we pop your badly fitted ships right? That's its use right there.
Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.27 04:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Diabolick
What is the benefit of being a Law Abiding capsuleer?
My main is 5.0 sec, the best benefit I see is that when I do get time off from wardecs/contracts and hit lowsec, people in low populated lowsec do not see me as a threat and do not warp off as soon as I enter local, seconded by the fact that most wannaby gankers see a +5 sec and think "ooh a carebear - shiny" and come to me.
I get loot and killmails because of this, best reward possible imo.
considering the amount of people in 0.0 with +5.0 from ratting/plexing +5.0 really doesn't mean helpless carebear, although if someone else is willing to make that mistake well there problem
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Relettov
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Posted - 2010.01.27 10:21:00 -
[39]
Where problem?
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Salen Kane
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.27 11:08:00 -
[40]
Safety in lowsec is like laxatives: a little bit will help you relive what could be a huge pain in your ass, but too much will just make everything plain ****ty.
Lowsec is really nosec. However, turning it into highsec with better rewards isn't gonna make it any better. Might as well introduce gnomes and add a dance emote. People will just get enough security to be safe in their lowsec carebear system of choice.
Still, lowsec should be.. well, low-sec. A bad part of town, where crime and violence is common and can be done in the open as long as you know the place. Cops only show up if you're stupid enough to stick around after the shootout, or interrupt their donut time, or do really bad stuff in public.
Taking the OPs idea in a more reasonable direction, give faction navies a chance to spawn when a crime is comitted. These wouldn't be the uber concord ships that destroy everything, and they wouldn't automatically chase you down no matter where you run. They should be about the toughness level of high bounty rats, but with slightly more diverse ewar abilities(making them a bit more unpredictable). Their numbers, speed and response time is dependant on the security status of the agressor, the victim, and the level of the system. Thus, a -10 player attacking a +5 player in a 0.4 system would LIKELY generate a larger, more timely response than a -1 attacking a +1 in 0.1.
This police force would react to a crime, not a criminal, so they wouldn't spawn just because you're -10, nor would they chase. They would try to ewar you (which might involve scrambling), but if you get out, or escape before they show, they wont be able to get you. And they can be killed, or tanked, or just ignored until you escape.
Combine this with an increase in rewards from lowsec, and you get a situation that maybe, just maybe, risk and reward will be somewhat balanced. Carebearing in lowsec under the threat of piracy would be possible, but you'd have to be smart about it. Fit a bit of a buffer on your mission runner, use a transport that has more than 5k ehp, mine in a battleship instead of a untanked hulk and maybe you'll be ok. Maybe. Atleast if you can fight back to some extent, and if the cops show up on time and you're smarter than the pirates.
On the pirate side, this would mean piracy carried some risks if you got sloppy. You'd need to hit them fast and get out, or bring enough staying power to tank them, or enough gank to kill them. The cops alone shouldn't be able to get you unless you suck, but it would mean that well tanked, well armed carebears might stand a chance.
Ofcourse, many self styled pirates prefer targets who cant fight back. In fact, I quite like them too. But it'd be nice with lowsec that wasn't just nullsec without sov and bubbles.
Do not try to pwn with the ship. You are only pwning yourself. Instead, realise that there is no ship, there is only you, pwning. |
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Winterjack
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Posted - 2010.01.27 11:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
bump, hopefully we can get some more discussion going on with this idea.
Why don't you try addressing the points that have been made so far? There's no discussion if you don't comment on the obvious flaws of your idea.
You start with an opinable premise, draw opinable conclusions through sketchy reasonment and then don't bother answering objections. What kind of "discussion" are you hoping for?
Quote:
Anyone else up for putting there 2cents with what the reward for having high security should be ?
~Dia~
You do like to get kicked in the soft spots, don't you?
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Adelina Jasna
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Posted - 2010.01.28 03:32:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Adelina Jasna on 28/01/2010 03:32:43
The benefit of having a high sec status?
Mainly being able to travel around high sec without Concord or the faction navies wanting to surprise butt secks me.
Also makes me look like a big carebear great for scouting out potential targets to gank in high sec. |
IbanezLaney
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Posted - 2010.01.28 04:09:00 -
[43]
I thought high security status did have reward.
If you have a higher sec status, can't you shoot more people before the penalty's lower your status to -1.0?
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Vins Chicago
Gallente
Regent Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.01.28 05:11:00 -
[44]
What a high sec status does not do, is help the OP spell correctly. JC, man, show yourself and your teachers some respect and get a dictionary.
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ImATaQuitO
Gallente
Macro Removal Service Inc
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Posted - 2010.01.28 06:45:00 -
[45]
The +5 vs -5 pilot reward/penalty (depending how you look at it) possibilities does spark some interest and thought, regardless of the system they engage in, tho that in itself could afford some reward, but more forthcoming on the outcome than the initial aggression . . .
Meh . . .
Fugetaboutit
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TaQ
CO - Diplomatic Affairs
MRS Inc. |
Ronan Connor
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Posted - 2010.01.28 11:08:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Zcorm Narwarr
I think there already is a "benefit" for having a good security status. If you get attacked unlawfully by another player he will get a bigger security hit from you than attacking a low security status pilot.
Hmm I think some reward for a high security status is somewhat fair seeing that acting agains law cause a drop in standings.
The main idea is to expand the security onto the low sec in order to see more people go to low sec.
The first part which came into my mind was that a ôbody-guardö patrol is somewhat ridiculous even for us carebears. But nonetheless on a small part this could be a good idea where even our bloodthirsty pvp friends could benefit from.
My idea to this would be this:
Every person with a sec status above 4 can attack pirates and gankers (even if their corp hasnÆt been targeted) like the have a sec status -5 till a sec status of the system of 0.6. On the low sec part this people get a higher security just on the gates of low sec 0.4. Either the guns would have a higher power or the gates would fire as well so even a BS could not stand it longer then 15 seconds. Every gun is concentrating on a different target. So for 0.4 id say gate, concord board, and 3 sentries make 5 targets.
The same system would go for a sec status above 4.5. But the ôhuntingö ground expands to the system of 0.8. In low sec that would go then into 0.3 concerning gate camps and a max. tanking time for a BS of 20 secs. 4 guns aiming at different targets.
Beeing to much of a care bear I donÆt know about rewards. Is a reward by destroying the pod or just the ship? If the pod, the sec status above 4 should allow to pod as well.
Naturally the pirates / gankers corpmembers must be only allowed to assist in 0.2 or below. Or they would suffer the gate defenses.
By helping Concord doing this another incentive could be given out. The headhunters could gain LP which they could change into a tradeable ôconcordö insurance. Basicly this tradeable insurance can be redeemed with a platinum insurance to insure a T2 ship to 75% of the value. Which on the other side Hulk owner might consider as a stimulation going with their ships into low sec areas or deeper. Of course this makes only sense if the buyer has a certain sec status like 2.5 or above or maybe just above 0.5
What are the pros IMHO of this?
1. a new profession would be introduced. ôHeadhuntersö,
2. causing more PVP between the sec areas of 0.3 and 0.8
3. a bit more security against gatecamps in 0.3-0.4
4. more traffic into low sec 0.3-0.4
5. marking gankers and pirates to all players with standing of 4 and more free to shoot
6. High sec areas will be more security driven by players and less by Concord
7. Possible more miner into low sec cause of buyable additional insurance on T2 ships
Cons?
1. Pirates and gankers will have a hard time in 0.3-0.8
2. I donÆt know how long the marking of a pirate last. But IÆd say 4-6 weeks time would be a good period. (open for ideas here)
3. Gate camps are mostly done by 5-9 ships. Not all of them could be destroyed by concord in time. But at least it would cause discomfort replacing 4 to 5 BS after a gatecamp.
I hope you consider this as an honest try to serve both sides (carebears/tearbears).
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Winterjack
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Posted - 2010.01.28 11:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ronan Connor
I hope you consider this as an honest try to serve both sides (carebears/tearbears).
Yeah I do.
I still think I don't want to see this happen. I'll expand later, suffice it to say you're serving only the carebears side.
The gate thing is blah, anyway - whomever is at a gate and stays around for 15 seconds is just trying to use the gate-guns to help him kill the other. I know if I'm fleeing I'm going to go through that gate as soon as I get in range and out of warp, and I'll warp out on the other side as soon as possible to unknown location.
Happy-hunting-grounds for hisec status might in fact be an idea, tho it would need to be expanded on.
But again: I don't think we NEED an incentive or bonus for high security status.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.01.28 11:42:00 -
[48]
didnt read the whole thread.
The benefit of a high security level is you can gank more before you'll have to rep it again.
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sukmanobov
Minmatar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.28 17:40:00 -
[49]
Edited by: sukmanobov on 28/01/2010 17:41:28
Originally by: Dia'Sarbator
I am not entirely sure this is the correct place for this topic of discussion but here it goes................. yada yada yada see first post
I can understand the poster pionts, beofre privs i used carebear it with RJD corp in lustrevik standing of 9 (corp), 5.0 (security). Now what is the piont if it gives nothing but the abilty to use Jumpclones and the odd bit from the LP store. once you hit 8+ standing you should get to know the managment have perks for having sutch high standing. Either that reduce the price for mods in the LP and call that perks  RF tempest for 150mill / 150K LP would be nice.
Ha Ha Faction Stabs are a perk so when i kill you with my broadsword i can laugh at you'r ISK loss
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Achura Morachu
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Posted - 2010.01.28 18:59:00 -
[50]
Limit sec status increase from rats to lowsec?
Law-abiding high-sec mission runners and ratters wouldn't need to worry about what to do with their +5 this way. Also, it'll bring peace and end world hunger.
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Mograph
Caldari
Starscream Industries
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.01.29 10:56:00 -
[51]
heres an idea.
Have a corp sec status that is an average of their members, (like faction standings)
the higher the corps sec status the more it costs to war dec them.
Seeing as a war dec is a bribe to concord, it should be more expensive to war dec a corp the concord likes.
then there would be a benefit to having high sec status, concord offers you protection from war decs kind of.
so if your corps average sec status is +5 it is 5 times more expensive to war dec them (numbers might have to be crunched but i think its a viable way to give high sec status players and corps a benefit.
same with low sec status, so if a corp has a sec status below -5 then you can war dec them for half the price (not much point deccing a low sec status corp they cant get into high sec anyway really and you can shoot them as much as you like.
also you should get sec status gains for killing a low security pirate. (like you get faction standings for killing Faction war people etc.
dunno, but this seems to me the best way to provide a benefit to high sec status players and doesnt penalise low sec people too much as nobody's gonna war dec pirates anyway you really dont need to.
and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing. |
Swalesey
Prosperity Through Violence
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Posted - 2010.01.29 11:52:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Swalesey on 29/01/2010 11:55:30
First of all, any idea of npc coming to help people in low sec areas away from the gates and stations will mean a complete death for any pvp in a ship smaller than a bc for a solo pilot. low sec is already a pain if you want to run a fast gang, as the gates and stations are already off limits for attacking someone. So you would only be encouraging people to bring bigger blobs of people. The idea of increasing the ferrocity of the gate guns to killing 5 bs in 20 seconds is also flawed, as you would need to in that case bring more than 5 to be able to fight anyone. in a small er group than you, and impossible to fight equal numbers. Again meaning bigger groups of bigger ships.
Low sec should not be about needing a remote rep battleship fleet to do any form of pvp. That's what happens in 0.0 often, which is what turns people off. A lot of people don't want to fly in huge mega blobs of pilots. there is no skill in 20 battleships decending on an itty 5 on a gate. so encouraging that is going against what imo low sec should be about. You should be able to roam about solo and actualy find people doing stuff in belts, with that in mind, you should have decent reasons to go to low sec to do those things.
This topic gets discussed a lot, and I guess imo the answer lies in finding good ways for solo pilots to make awesome isk, compared to high sec. Level 5 missions were introduced, that was a start, but it is possible to make them spawn in high, and you can't realy do them solo, so that goes against what I am saying here. also they take so long that your more than likely to get scanned out before the mission finishes.
Moving level 4 missions to low sec seemed like a good idea to me. that is worth furhter discussion, but ofc, nothing is going to happen that will make people cry about there eve been ruined etc etc .
Maybe it would be possible to have missions like single versions of the epic arc ones, where there are different ship limits on each one, where the mission takes maybe half an hour but over the course of doing them, pays more than a level 4 would on an isk per hour basis, and gets it's payouts more on a faction items basis rahter than loot that takes up a lot of m3 cargo space.
The mission level could be higher in financial gain compared to it's high sec counterparts, maybe getting a comparable payout overall to it's level 1 higher up in high sec so a level 3 may pay out like a level 4 in high and a level 4 maybe not like a level 5, but somewhere inbetween.
Missions as hard as there counterparts in high sec, but maybe not for a bs but for a friggate, or a cruiser or bc. Basicaly so the emphasis been, there is isk to be made out here, but you doin'yt ahve to bring your faction fit mission bs straight in here to get it. missions where you could use a sb or interceptor to get a level 4 payout for example would be fun :P would just need ingenious mission templates I am sure CCP are capable of dreaming up.
Higher traffic in low sec breeds it's self. you need people there to make it worth selling things there, and things to buy to encourage people to go there build stuff there and everything that goes with it.
tl;dr maybe missions.
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