Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Lantay77B
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:01:00 -
[1]
I recently read about a scandal that happened back in 2007, a developer CCP t20 cheated and gave an alliance tech 2 BPO's. Kugut-sumen (filtered without the "-", seems that CCP is still trying to cover something up) hacked the alliance's forums and found out about it.
The article can be found here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/847-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep
I still have some unexplained questions about the situation though, is t20 still employed and if yes, why? What is CCP doing now to ensure this won't happen anymore? Or is it happening and people just do not know it?
|

Dretzle Omega
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:02:00 -
[2]
Wow, from 2007. Bad troll? Bad necro? Or really just behind on the news?
Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
|

Lantay77B
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:07:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega Wow, from 2007. Bad troll? Bad necro? Or really just behind on the news?
I am not trolling. I am new to eve since 2009 and cannot find information on what happened to prevent this sort of thing from happening. It concerns me. So yes, behind on the news.
|

Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:09:00 -
[4]
Internal affairs exist now. Do a forum search, tons of crap about this there. --------
|

SupaKudoRio
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:10:00 -
[5]
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 28/01/2010 18:10:54 IBTL
Old news. Too bad no one will forget. No idea if t20 is still around, but tbh there's nothing anyone can do to stop things like that from happening; or more like want to, since it results in an instant ban for whoever does the stitching... apparently. More likely it was 'payback' though, I reckon. 
---------------
10/10: Where is your God now? |

Lord Windu
Echelon Solutions Echelon.
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:11:00 -
[6]
T20 got fired, CCP clamped down on staff and ensured that they can and are monitored, they also implemented the CSM which part of their role is to make sure future incidents are dealt with appropriately.
And, old news is old. No cover ups or crap like that... ------
|

DJ Obsidian
New Eden Technical Institutes
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:13:00 -
[7]
In this case, the logs show something.
CCP player chars are heavily monitored and iirc only csm members have been allowed to know who the ccp player chars are, at least csm 1.
Of course i could be wrong.
|

Lantay77B
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:15:00 -
[8]
Ok, so the new department internal affairs monitors developer activity to prevent this. I understand more now.
The only thing I am wondering is why the person who uncovered it kgut* is still filtered out. CCP just left their filters this way after the Goons flooded the forums with it most likely?
|

Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Cult of War
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lord Windu T20 got fired
Source? Last I remembered hearing about the whole ordeal, T20 gave his whole "I'm sorry" speech and CCP acted like everything was hunky-dory.
|

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Lord Windu T20 got fired
Source? Last I remembered hearing about the whole ordeal, T20 gave his whole "I'm sorry" speech and CCP acted like everything was hunky-dory.
He might not have been fired. But it takes less than 5 minutes of research to find that T20 is no longer with CCP.
|
|

Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:26:00 -
[11]
Oh god not this again. Now that all the emo and rage have past does anyone truely think that the dozen odd t2 ammo bpo's along with the sabre bpo and I think some random assualt frigate bpo that t20 used as a cover to get in the alliance had any realistic impact on any nullsec outcome? Oh Please.. CCP wanted to get devs into the bigger alliances to get a hands on feel for what goes on so they could evolve the game accourdingly. Hence dev alt applicants who 'just won' the t2 lottery were used as a way to make it easier to get in. What amused me then and amuses me now is why noone ever asked who the devs in the other alliances were and moar importantly are they still there? 
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
|

Areo Hotah
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:30:00 -
[12]
The side effect now is that we don't have a single Dev who is actively playing Eve. So CCP either recruit old veterans, which have some decent ideas, but probably slowly loose contact with the-day-to-day reality of the game, and we have spread-sheet warriors who have never played beyond the tutorial, that give examples of stupid Vagabond fits to justify nano nerfs, and balance dreads around target-painted targets.
|

Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Lord Windu T20 got fired
Source? Last I remembered hearing about the whole ordeal, T20 gave his whole "I'm sorry" speech and CCP acted like everything was hunky-dory.
He might not have been fired. But it takes less than 5 minutes of research to find that T20 is no longer with CCP.
^This. T20 "moved on" to another opportunity quite a while after the whole sordid affair. He was not fired. There are plenty of google-able things out there you can read on this subject, or hit up a Bitter VetÖ ingame for details.
/IBTL The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |

Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lantay77B Ok, so the new department internal affairs monitors developer activity to prevent this. I understand more now.
The only thing I am wondering is why the person who uncovered it kgut* is still filtered out. CCP just left their filters this way after the Goons flooded the forums with it most likely?
Troling Goon alt spotted.
If you are so "clueless" about what happened, how do you know about the goon threadnaughts?
Say no to 24000byte sig limit. |

Lantay77B
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lantay77B on 28/01/2010 18:41:58
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Lantay77B Ok, so the new department internal affairs monitors developer activity to prevent this. I understand more now.
The only thing I am wondering is why the person who uncovered it kgut* is still filtered out. CCP just left their filters this way after the Goons flooded the forums with it most likely?
Troling Goon alt spotted.
If you are so "clueless" about what happened, how do you know about the goon threadnaughts?
FFS, I know about it because it's in the article I linked. I read it last night. This is my highest SP character, my characters are lantay77, lantay77B, and lantay77C. I'm new to eve and never been in an alliance yet.
All of my questions have been answered thanks to the helpful people who posted. I do not know why people have to accuse me of trolling. I was just wondering about this event that happened in the game.
|

Jill Xelitras
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lantay77B ... my characters are lantay77, lantay77B, and lantay77C. I'm new to eve and never been in an alliance yet.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to call your characters: Lantay77 Lantay77A Lantay77B ??
|

Lantay77B
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jill Xelitras
Originally by: Lantay77B ... my characters are lantay77, lantay77B, and lantay77C. I'm new to eve and never been in an alliance yet.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to call your characters: Lantay77 Lantay77A Lantay77B ??
It would have made more sense to me to call them
Lantay77A Lantay77B Lantay77C
but I started months ago and made Lantay77 and played on him for a month, then i took a break and didn't play for almost 6 months and I came back when I got a 5 day free reactivation in december and made Lantay77B, which is my main character now.
|

000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:48:00 -
[18]
It was a bad bad time, but atleast it has been put behind us and we really should move on.
CCP has implemented certain means so this should not happen again, we can only hope they work and ccp will keep to their promisses. ________________________________________________
|

Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lantay77B I recently read about a scandal that happened back in 2007, a developer CCP t20 cheated and gave an alliance tech 2 BPO's. Kugut-sumen (filtered without the "-", seems that CCP is still trying to cover something up) hacked the alliance's forums and found out about it.
I'm shaky on the details, but he essentially ****ed off a lot of people in CCP. He also exposed t20 by illegal means, probably broke a couple dozen different rules in the EULA, not to mention he actively engaged in anti-CCP activity. CCP was angry, and these forums are CCP property and as such do not qualify for free speech protections. As deplorable as some people may find it, CCP censored him. This issue is quite old, and most players don't care about it anymore. CCP can't be bothered to remove his name from the bad word list.
Quote:
The article can be found here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/847-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep
I still have some unexplained questions about the situation though, is t20 still employed and if yes, why?
At the time, t20 was NOT fired. It has been speculated that this is because of contractual reasons - IE, CCP could only fire t20 for certain reasons, and cheating within EVE Online was not one of them. Because CCP exists in Iceland, if CCP violated their contract by firing t20, t20 could have sued CCP.
Quote:
What is CCP doing now to ensure this won't happen anymore? Or is it happening and people just do not know it?
CCP introduced Internal Affairs, which keeps a very close eye on the activities of all CCP employees and volunteers such as ISD in game (and IIRC, also the CSM). I seem to recall that Internal Affairs has caught people cheating, or taking advantage of internal knowledge on a few other occasions (a GM and a CSM, I believe). ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made. |

Thuul'Khalat
Gallente Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:04:00 -
[20]
What a lot of people seem to forget, or conveniently ignore, in regards to Kugut is the fact that he committed RL crimes when uncovering stuff. A ban was clearly in order, as the end does not always justify the means. ---
|
|

khendro
Caldari Point of No Return
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:14:00 -
[21]
t20 currently works at Realtime Worlds, developer of the Xbox 360 game Crackdown and the MMO APB for PC.
|

Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Thuul'Khalat What a lot of people seem to forget, or conveniently ignore, in regards to Kugut is the fact that he committed RL crimes when uncovering stuff. A ban was clearly in order, as the end does not always justify the means.
IIRC, technically the things that he did were not crimes in the country where he lives. Hence the reason why nobody was able to take legal action against him. The only recourse that CCP had was to ban him and censor him. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made. |

Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:22:00 -
[23]
hackers, crackzorz and ph-ph-phone phrrrrreaking in my eve?
Was a bad move on the devs side but CCP on the whole did what they could to ensure this stuff doesn't happen again.
It's old man... let it die, or just google it; ain't too difficult. ~ Soar Like a Penguin |

Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:28:00 -
[24]
*shoots the dead horse*
And stay down! --------
|

Gertrud ToD
Terrorists of Dimensions
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:33:00 -
[25]
t20 quit his job with ccp last year (or was it '08?) and is now working for some other MMO, which was/is released this quarter
|

Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 20:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Taedrin IIRC, technically the things that he did were not crimes in the country where he lives. Hence the reason why nobody was able to take legal action against him. The only recourse that CCP had was to ban him and censor him.
It doesn't matter where he was. You can't murder someone, run back to your home country and then say 'Sorry, murder is not a crime here, can't arrest me.'
The only way that is relevant is whether or not his home country would be willing to extradite him or not.
No legal action was taken against him probably because it would likely just be far more trouble than it needed to be, and banning him was good enough. ---
|

McFly
C0LDFIRE
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 20:20:00 -
[27]
NO MORE NECRO T20 THREADS
-- my sig got nerfed again, csm thread to get forum sig limitations lifted a bit |

Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 20:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Usagi Tsukino
Originally by: Taedrin IIRC, technically the things that he did were not crimes in the country where he lives. Hence the reason why nobody was able to take legal action against him. The only recourse that CCP had was to ban him and censor him.
It doesn't matter where he was. You can't murder someone, run back to your home country and then say 'Sorry, murder is not a crime here, can't arrest me.'
The only way that is relevant is whether or not his home country would be willing to extradite him or not.
No legal action was taken against him probably because it would likely just be far more trouble than it needed to be, and banning him was good enough.
It should be pointed out that the alleged "illegal acts" were not carried out against CCP, and thus CCP had no standing to take action other than to creatively use their EULA to ban the account in question for causing them undue embarrassment/PR work.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |

MsValentineWiggin
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 21:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: McFly NO MORE NECRO T20 THREADS
Although since this came up today, one must be careful to not troll with "yes T20 is a CCP employee and wrote the code in Dominion for billing and collecting sovereignty payments." |

SomebodyKickedMyDog
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 21:42:00 -
[30]
hey guys. so what exactly happened here?
|
|

Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:33:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Doc Fury
It should be pointed out that the alleged "illegal acts" were not carried out against CCP, and thus CCP had no standing to take action other than to creatively use their EULA to ban the account in question for causing them undue embarrassment/PR work.
It's not even a partial stretch of the imagination to think CCP was RIGHT for banning him. Unauthorized access to servers in such a manner is illegal in most countries - and rightfully so.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |

Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 22:50:00 -
[32]

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
|

Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2010.01.28 23:28:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Doc Fury on 28/01/2010 23:29:45
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Doc Fury
It should be pointed out that the alleged "illegal acts" were not carried out against CCP, and thus CCP had no standing to take action other than to creatively use their EULA to ban the account in question for causing them undue embarrassment/PR work.
It's not even a partial stretch of the imagination to think CCP was RIGHT for banning him. Unauthorized access to servers in such a manner is illegal in most countries - and rightfully so.
-Liang
Do you even have a clue whose "servers" were allegedly accessed?
I am not defending he-who-shall-not-be-named, but following your logic, if an EVE player smokes cannabis in Amsterdam their EVE account should get banned because smoking cannabis is illegal in Iceland (and the USA). Smoking cannabis, while illegal in most of the world, is completely legal in Amsterdam, and is completely unrelated to CCP and having an EVE account.
You'd be better off arguing for the real reason the ban happened, he created a panic in the forums with the information he obtained elsewhere (using whatever means) and his posting of it in the forums caused CCP hardship when people started screaming for blood. This was punished as an EULA violation, right or wrong.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |

Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 01:34:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 29/01/2010 01:34:05
Originally by: Doc Fury Do you even have a clue whose "servers" were allegedly accessed?
Yes. I do. The simple fact is that he tried to DESTROY the game, and broke a MULTITUDE of what is largely considered to be "international" laws in the attempt.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |

Aurora148
Infinity Enterprises Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 02:03:00 -
[35]
Yes, K tried to destroy the game.
The game he still plays btw.
|

Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 05:01:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 29/01/2010 05:01:38
Originally by: Aurora148 Yes, K tried to destroy the game.
The game he still plays btw.
I am also aware of that. ;-)
-Liang
Ed: And I still think the manner in which he went about things was inexcusable. As was giving "a certain" alliance T2 BPOs... -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |

lovely song
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 13:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Zeba Oh god not this again. Now that all the emo and rage have past does anyone truely think that the dozen odd t2 ammo bpo's along with the sabre bpo and I think some random assualt frigate bpo that t20 used as a cover to get in the alliance had any realistic impact on any nullsec outcome? Oh Please.. CCP wanted to get devs into the bigger alliances to get a hands on feel for what goes on so they could evolve the game accourdingly. Hence dev alt applicants who 'just won' the t2 lottery were used as a way to make it easier to get in. What amused me then and amuses me now is why noone ever asked who the devs in the other alliances were and moar importantly are they still there? 
THIS ACTUALLY, but stlil wondreing why kugutsmen was banned ? thats kinda stupid right ? he uncovered the affair so why ban him ?
|

lovely song
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 13:41:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Doc Fury
Do you even have a clue whose "servers" were allegedly accessed?
I am not defending he-who-shall-not-be-named, but following your logic, if an EVE player smokes cannabis in Amsterdam their EVE account should get banned because smoking cannabis is illegal in Iceland (and the USA). Smoking cannabis, while illegal in most of the world, is completely legal in Amsterdam, and is completely unrelated to CCP and having an EVE account.
You'd be better off arguing for the real reason the ban happened, he created a panic in the forums with the information he obtained elsewhere (using whatever means) and his posting of it in the forums caused CCP hardship when people started screaming for blood. This was punished as an EULA violation, right or wrong.
THAT ACTUALLY
|

lovely song
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 13:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 29/01/2010 01:34:05
Originally by: Doc Fury Do you even have a clue whose "servers" were allegedly accessed?
Yes. I do. The simple fact is that he tried to DESTROY the game, and broke a MULTITUDE of what is largely considered to be "international" laws in the attempt.
-Liang
well technically you cannto be considered guilty until it was proven in the rightful court of law, so whether or not he broke any laws is very questionable. You can always change your testimony saying that you've obtained information by some other means [legal], most jurisdictions recognize that people need to have the right to change what they said initially because they could've said it under emotional pressure or any other influencing circumstances.
So the matter would have gone A VERY LONG WAY before anyone would actually formally recognize that he broke any laws, anywhere, IF it would ever reach this point.
So I'm more inclined to think that CCP simply got mad at him for revealing to public some nasty internal affair which they would rather keep private, because its potentially very damaging to the game atmosphere.
|

Femaref
Armageddon Day
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 13:50:00 -
[40]
t20 couldn't be fired or anything else for the matter, because the person in charge (who only was there as substitute) already punished him, and when the real people came back, they couldn't punish him again by firing him, because this is against the Icelandic law.
|
|

Sral TBear
Gatlin penguins
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 14:00:00 -
[41]
let this junk R.I.P.......2007.......geeeez.....wanna read all "wierd" things in eve since....2007....then i hope you have ALOT of time....
R.I.P 2007
welcome
2010
TBear
|

Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 14:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: SomebodyKickedMyDog hey guys. so what exactly happened here?
I think somebody kicked your dog...
|

Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 14:34:00 -
[43]
How predictable. Goons shoot self in the nuts by not paying a bill and lose their space.
A goon alt T20 thread was just a matter of time...
|

SomebodyKickedMyDog
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 15:03:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Fille Balle
Originally by: SomebodyKickedMyDog hey guys. so what exactly happened here?
I think somebody kicked your dog...
Again??
CCP fail! Ragequit/emoquit/nerdrage/mmorage/carebear/pvpersaresociopaths/horriblelag/suicidegank/11%tax/issolopvpviable/rvbthread/tuxford/howdoisteermyship
|

Bhattran
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 17:46:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lantay77B
Originally by: Dretzle Omega Wow, from 2007. Bad troll? Bad necro? Or really just behind on the news?
I am not trolling. I am new to eve since 2009 and cannot find information on what happened to prevent this sort of thing from happening. It concerns me. So yes, behind on the news.
Nothing, CSM was created to make players feel better that someone was now 'monitoring' CCP or could be shown the data CCP provides that says they 'fixed it' or whatever but CSM has no real power over CCP. It is like inviting a group of people into your house to show them how you painted the wall. They don't know you left the urine on the wall, they don't see the termite eaten boards behind it, all they see is the painted wall you are showing them.
|

Zarstrax
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 17:57:00 -
[46]
What country is Kugut from?
|

Femaref
Armageddon Day
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 18:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Zarstrax What country is Kugut from?
Indonesia.
|

Lantay77B
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.01.29 19:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Marlona Sky How predictable. Goons shoot self in the nuts by not paying a bill and lose their space.
A goon alt T20 thread was just a matter of time...
Clearly you didn't read anything on the first page. I think this thread should be closed now, my questions were answered.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |