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Lag, the major problem.

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SnK Peel The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.28 23:38:00 - [1] Edited by: SnK Peel on 28/01/2010 23:42:45 Edited by: SnK Peel on 28/01/2010 23:42:00 As any player who has ever experinced severe lag knows how frustrating that it is. I'm not talking about lag where all your acitons are delayed by 30 seconds im talking about being on the receiving end of a blank screen for 30 minutes, then suddenly having an insureance mail arrive (whilst still on a completely blank screen) then waitng another 20 mintues to either load a completely war torn grid in a 'pod' or show up in a station. CCP, in my very honest opinion this is a horrific burdon on your part. I find it utterly appaling that you continue to release promotion videos for a game ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rQ9_3DckAQ - see for example ) That runs in NO way like it is advertised. I do understand that extreme loads on a server naturally generates lag but how can you be trying to 'recruit' more subscribers with these false promotions untill you have fixed the matter at hand. The in game mechanics work nothing like they are advertised too and their is no fairness or joy in having to PAY to play a game under these conditions. My next point is, If a ship is lost to these 'severe' lag conditions you REFUSE to reimburse, Thats not good enough, I think either untill you figure out a way to handle large fleet warefare fairly their should be reimbursments to ships that get destroyed without having any posisble way to defend themselfs in a large engagement. That is all, if a player looses a ship because YOUR game cant handle what its supposed to and what you advertise for it to do. In my mind thats not fair to anyone, especially the people who put in hours of dedication which is paid for by that player. Just to have it all thrown away without even being able to activate a hardner then having to start the process all over again. All because your game is not doing what it is advertised to do. My opinion is you start replacing ships that are unfairly lost to these circumstances UNTILL you take some of that subscription money 10's of thousands of players are paying for each month and come up with a soloution.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.28 23:52:00 - [2] while i can understand your frustration. but pushing 1500-1600 people into D-G was just no good idea. all in all we dont need more threads about the lag. CCP is aware of this. just in case you missed the ingame news, this thread or this thread. they are aware. they are working on it. and your posting is not a proposal just whining. get a tea, fit a new ship and hope the next fight would have less than 1500 in local.
Camios Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.28 23:54:00 - [3] Edited by: Camios on 28/01/2010 23:58:01 Lag is a really big issue, but I don't think it can be solved without any change in game mechanic. Here is my analysis on what causes blob to be a winning tactic, and my proposal to act on gameplay mechanic to change it and fix lag once for all.This obviously does not exclude working on technical problems, but I state that lag will not be fixed with technical improvements: people will keep packing in a single solarsystem until in crashes or lag becomes so terrible that they decide to log off. My proposal would require to split fights over many solarsystem in a constellation setting a minimum of solarsystem to contest at once, with constellation-wide reinforcement timers. Please check it it this thread and contribute.
SnK Peel The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.29 00:07:00 - [4] Ahh yes hope, lets hope that enemys of which ever alliance is defending or attacking a system just dont show up in force. Because we spend hours of gameplay and alot of money in monthly fees to hope that the enemy wont bring their full force to defend / attack. Yes i may be complaining a bit but what im saying is this is still an unfair factor to the victem regardless of whos side hes on and untill CCP have found a soloution to this problem, which is their problem and not the players, Reimbursements should be handed out to those who are the are on the receivng end of this horirble factor, it makes me feel as long as we are paying our fees CCP are happy to say no, because they expect us to pay more fees to be able to play long enough to 'get a new ship' and 'hope' that in the next big fight the same problem wont happen again. Then ofcourse it does and the process is repeated, wether our side wins or looses, their is always someone that has to go through this issue and these are the people that should be reimbursed, this is a topic against your reimbursement policies as much as it is your lag issues.
Theac Osiris Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.29 00:12:00 - [5] I strongly suspect CCP is aware of problems caused by lag, as is every single online game company in the world. I for one am amazed that you can pack 1,000 ships into the same grid without complete failure; there are many O(N^2) (number of operations needed to complete a task is proportional to the square of the number of users) tasks involved. EvE is a sandbox, and CCP will never say "you can't bring more than X players to a fight". Players will always try to outnumber the other team, until the point at which lag makes the game unplayable. If you don't want laggy fights, don't go to a huge fleet fight. You are setting yourself up for disappointment. ______________________________________________ Missions. They're like mining, but with guns.
Smooth Op	Posted - 2010.01.29 00:26:00 - [6] Originally by: Theac Osiris If you don't want laggy fights, don't go to a huge fleet fight. You are setting yourself up for disappointment. CCP set these fights up with the new dominion set up... If Fleet A places sbu's with 500 ships as back...fleet B has to have the same amount of ships(at least)... Ridiculous to complain that we SHOULDN'T bring these numbers of ships to a fight...when CCP set up these mechanics.
Fayne Victormas Gallente Genco Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.29 01:11:00 - [7] This isn't lag anymore, it's broken and unusable mechanics. It is clear by now that this is not going to be fixed any time soon. What CCP has now isn't even in the save universe as what they are advertising all over the internet. For them to presume that they can continue to develop their way out of these issues at the expense of some of their customers is unacceptable.
Moriancumer Hammer Of Light Aegis Militia	Posted - 2010.01.29 01:14:00 - [8]
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.29 01:17:00 - [9] so how many CVA+pets have been on the mass testing event?
Syringe Incura	Posted - 2010.01.29 03:03:00 - [10] I'm pretty sure your inability to format is the problem here. CCP knows about the lag - I'm sure they've heard. More assembly hall posts oughta speed 'em up ;) Besides, I kinda like the cut of your jib, sailor... --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question.
speedcat Gallente Human Liberty Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.29 03:55:00 - [11] Edited by: speedcat on 29/01/2010 03:54:46 Originally by: darius mclever so how many CVA+pets have been on the mass testing event? You're a troll. Plain and simple. If CCP would like to, they just could read news and watch the community. We don't need mass testing events for this. There are plenty of fights happening which are bigger than a mass testing event ever could be. The lag, sooner or later will kill this game. Also with the new mechanics CCP didn't managed to think it through and see why it happens that over a thousand people mass thereself on a single point of interest. The only useful answer till yet in this thread was the one of "Camios". He's suggesting to split the fights. This could be a good solution. In EvE it was always a problem that while we have open space we are limited to single points of interest (celestials). And this is because CCP don't allow us to free flight in our space. We can't put up stations where we want to and everything we build is immediately on our overview. There is no strategy needed in this game. Only thing that counts is "mass". The most interesting fights are when five people move somewhere and other five people find them by coincidence. Lagfree and it's not looking like someone set it up. The new sov-mechanics solved no problems. We are also still shooting POS and due to absolutely crappy modules, the POS has no chance to defend itself. It's just a joke and has nothing to do with starships and the very well made video advertisements we see in front of every expansion. cheers speedcat
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.01.29 04:03:00 - [12] If only something like this had happened just a few weeks ago and you had learned from it.
Elise Randolph The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.01.29 04:06:00 - [13] So I heard that CCP always strive to keep the server at optimum performance and regularly upgrade their hardware and code, however, in situations such as fleet battles they cannot always achieve this goal. It is impossible for them to measure how much lag each person has and even harder to verify which losses were the result of lag and which losses were legit. Reimbursing losses from large battles due to possible lag which is unverifiable from their end, would in essence mean removing the risk of loss from fleet battles entirely and thereby nullify their whole purpose. I am sorry that they cannot assist you and I hope you understand their stance on this matter.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.29 04:09:00 - [14] Originally by: speedcat Edited by: speedcat on 29/01/2010 03:54:46 Originally by: darius mclever so how many CVA+pets have been on the mass testing event? You're a troll. Plain and simple. If CCP would like to, they just could read news and watch the community. We don't need mass testing events for this. There are plenty of fights happening which are bigger than a mass testing event ever could be. The lag, sooner or later will kill this game. Also with the new mechanics CCP didn't managed to think it through and see why it happens that over a thousand people mass thereself on a single point of interest. The only useful answer till yet in this thread was the one of "Camios". He's suggesting to split the fights. This could be a good solution. In EvE it was always a problem that while we have open space we are limited to single points of interest (celestials). And this is because CCP don't allow us to free flight in our space. We can't put up stations where we want to and everything we build is immediately on our overview. There is no strategy needed in this game. Only thing that counts is "mass". The most interesting fights are when five people move somewhere and other five people find them by coincidence. Lagfree and it's not looking like someone set it up. The new sov-mechanics solved no problems. We are also still shooting POS and due to absolutely crappy modules, the POS has no chance to defend itself. It's just a joke and has nothing to do with starships and the very well made video advertisements we see in front of every expansion. cheers speedcat yes it is definitely trolling to point out that CCP is actively working on it. if you would have taken the time to read the postings, you would have known that they ran some code with debugging enabled to get the data they needed. something you cant do on TQ without making the normal performance worse. you wanted to have your fleet fight today with debug code? and as viper said ... you didnt learn from WI. vs Atlas, you didnt learn from PL/Goons vs IT in y-2. repeat their errors and come to the forums and cry. yes this will definitely help to solve the problem.
SnK Peel The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.29 07:26:00 - [15] Yes, there are too many topics on the forum about lag, 'ohh it was laggy and i died' 'i shouldent even move' etc etc, Yes this post adresses that but what it also adresses is the -No reimburse due to lag thing they have going on at the moment. I'm thinking if CCP claim know exactly what the problem is why are they not reimbursing ships to the pople that loose them in these conditions. I would die smiling if only i could go down swinging, but i cant even die whilst watching my enemy shoot me, this deserves reimbursement, maybe if you started giving ships back to the victems of this mess CCP you wouldent have x ammount of people saying they are on the brink of stopping paying for their subscriptions untill the matter is solved, http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1234899&page=13 , Reimburse CCP because people that die in this way deserve it.
Hugh Hefner Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2010.01.29 17:20:00 - [16] Dominion is obviously flawed, hoping for a speedy recovery.
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.01.29 21:50:00 - [17] Originally by: speedcat Edited by: speedcat on 29/01/2010 03:54:46 Originally by: darius mclever so how many CVA+pets have been on the mass testing event? You're a troll. Plain and simple. If CCP would like to, they just could read news and watch the community. We don't need mass testing events for this. There are plenty of fights happening which are bigger than a mass testing event ever could be. I forgot, CCP magically fixes problems. They simply need to know a problem exists. Then, without any idea why the problem occurs, presses the big, red, magic "fix it" button and magic fairies sprinkle pixie dust on the server and all is better. In good, scientific method, style, CCP has been attempting to test the problem in a controlled environment so they can identify the bottleneck and fix it. Unfortunately, they picked a dumb time to run a test requiring a good turnout. They continue to rely on players to spread the word on when a test is going to happen. I can understand a complaint about the time of the tests and/or how much effort CCP has put into trying to make the player base aware of the test. I cannot understand complaining about CCP's magic wand not working. Fix Local
wagashi	Posted - 2010.01.30 13:04:00 - [18] If 0.0 was magically changed to Wormhole space I think alot of problems would be solved. You wouldn't be able to amass 5 alliances and 1000+ during the time frame a system is open to yours. Your tactics would be to scout,assess and be fighting in less than an hour. Once a beach head was established slowly reinforcements would arrive. It would be actually be a fight. Not the craptastic blob they are now. It would be much better. But someone long ago said Epic "Battles = 1000+"

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