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Sticky:The future of Community and CCL

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 89 post(s)

ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4	Posted - 2012.09.06 20:46:00 - [1] - Quote gulftobay wrote: I'd really appreciate an answer to this question: Why on earth hasn't the James 315 for CSM as hi-sec representative been moved from General Discussion to Jita Park Speakers Corner? Fake edit: just moved, took nearly 23 hours. This is frustrating for those who do try to post responsibly. Hi Gulftobay, I would like to apologize that you found our response time frustrating, I am grateful that you maintained a responsible attitude in the meantime. I can only attempt to justify it by stating that we are as of yet a small team, and we can only cover so-much timezone. We would be very happy to receive more applications to the volunteer programme to help with this, however! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 62	Posted - 2012.09.13 10:42:00 - [2] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: ISD Athechu wrote: Hello Everyone, Since you guys are here, mind bugging your bosses about getting us some feedback when moderation actions affect us? We accept that you may need to edit and delete posts. We do not accept that you need to do it in secret, nor do we trust any EVE players with the ability to do so in secret. Good morning, We have made mention of this, both internally and to our chain of command. We actually discussed it as recently as Lord Zim posted his suggestion. All I can offer you at this point is that it has been raised. I hope you can see that where it is possible you do get feedback to the level that we can provide. A locked post will have a reply from the appropriate person stating the reason for the lock, An edited post will have a legend saying 'Edit: Reason - Volunteer Name' and a little flag saying Edited by '....'. If we delete posts, we will post in the thread to say that we've cleaned up, and why we've done so. All of the above is current policy and should be followed at all times, although there may be a time delay between a thread being locked and a reply being posted. Finally, I hope you can trust any ISD member in their moderation as much as you did Zymurgist, all of my team members have had full training and been subject to rigorous background checks by the GM team. As I've stated before, if you believe that we have been anything less then impartial, then please either report the post in question, or raise a petition; I can assure you that all such reports are dealt with by the CCP Community team. Lastly, as a matter of interest - are you aware of any standard forum software that tells users when their posts are moved, edited or deleted ? I am interested in understanding the features that are available, so that I can be better informed in our internal discussions about this. Thanks and fly safe. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 62	Posted - 2012.09.13 10:54:00 - [3] - Quote KIller Wabbit wrote: If ISD is going to keep the peace in the R.I.P threads you have censor all sides. So far all I've seen censored are the anti-religion and let's-hug-the-world-panderers. We need to honor the man for all his contributions and accomplishments. Remove everything else because it's going to troll someone. Hi, I can personally assure you that we have removed a number of distasteful and frankly disgusting posts in the last 24 hours. We have no intention of censoring anything, that is not our role here. If we have ventured into politics it has only been where some forum denizens have entered into stereotypical and racial slurs against cultural groups. I ask of you at this difficult time to appreciate that we're trying to balance between helping people to mark their condolences whilst ensuring that no single person or group is being victimized or otherwise. Please use the report button to help us to do our job. Thanks and fly safe. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 62	Posted - 2012.09.13 11:28:00 - [4] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Hey so are any of you going to unlock this thread here James 315 for CSM as hi-sec representative that was locked up for no reason, or is this the thread for ISD officials to simply introduce themselves and debut their uselessness at resolving issues and answering questions? Hi Nicolo, This discussion isn't here to simply reverse decisions that were unfavorable to certain people, I'm sorry if that was the impression you received. The thread in question was reviewed multiple times and each time, we reached the same conclusion, it needed to be locked. Thanks and fly safe. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 63	Posted - 2012.09.13 23:37:00 - [5] - Quote Hi, I'd like to put this down in simple terms without resorting to word-play to make points here. One of the jobs of the CCL team is to enforce CCPs mandated terms of usage via the forum rules. These are private forums and CCP have extended the right to limit what gets posted upon them. In order to do so, the terms of usage state in no-uncertain terms that they reserve the right to Edit, Limit or remove any content posted to the forums at their discretion. I encourage you to read the Forum Rules and in particular the Website Terms of use. Thanks, and as always, please fly safe. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 124	Posted - 2012.09.27 17:07:00 - [6] - Quote MailDeadDrop wrote: I know next to nothing about the "behind the scenes" machinations of the "report post" flag. Does it send reports to senior CCL people when the flagged post is one from ISD? If not, can it be altered to do so? I'm thinking that doing a "report post" on ISD posts that I disagree with might provide an effective feedback on the quality of their ISD members' moderation. MDD Hi there, If a post by an ISD member is reported, then we're (CCL) forbidden from dealing with it and it is escalated to the community team at CCP. Part of being in CCL is the requirement that all moderators have to be on-line in our special IRC channel, as we often have to discuss the actions that are about to be taken. If an ISD post is reported then as a lead I may email the chat-logs to CCP, depending on what has happened; but that's as far as we get involved. I hope this helps! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 138	Posted - 2012.09.27 19:40:00 - [7] - Quote Hi Corina, Yes absolutely - we welcome all constructive feedback! As long as folks don't start abusing it, then there is no problem that I can see; although of course that's up to CCP as it's their workload we're talking about. The only potential problem as CCP Gargant said earlier is that there is no feedback loop built into the report system. If you want to to get feedback about actions that have been taken, (on a post of your own of course!) then the best bet is to raise a petition under the Other -> Community category. Thanks and fly safe! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 177	Posted - 2012.10.02 13:34:00 - [8] - Quote Hi Andski, Thanks for bringing to my attention. The rule regarding Killboard posts is a specific extension of the no trolling rule as CCP Spitfire states here: Crime and punishment rules As that's posted by CCP, it can be considered as Canon for all purposes on all of the child forums here. I've cleared this up with my guys and we've escalated this to CCP to ask if it can be put in the full forum rules list, especially as some of the newer CCL team members weren't aware. Sorry for the confusion! tl,dr; You're only allowed to post killmails on Crime and Punishment, as long as you follow the rules. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 179	Posted - 2012.10.02 15:22:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Spitfire wrote: Killmails The posting of killmails is permitted, however following criteria must be met: a) The name of the victim must be removed or covered up b) The killmail must be posted along with constructive text/content. This means no posting new threads with simply a killmail in it without a comment. c) The killmail must be posted directly into the post and may not be a link to a third-party site. The reason behind these rules was a spate of threads seeking to embarrass other players, such as those with poor set-ups. Killmails are not supported by us and given the ease of forgery, threads with killmails in them tended to descend into arguments about the veracity of them. To foster a better community spirit, killmails will be removed from any post that do not follow the above rules. I've italicized the relevant parts of CCP Spitfire's post to show why we consider Killmail posts as trolling. I'm not going to get into a discussion about actions taken against other posts here, but you'll see that I've addressed that Chimera thread now. As I mentioned before, I've raised the question about Killmails with my superiors at CCP. Until they've clarified what they want to happen, I ask you to please follow the rules that have been stated here. You may also raise it directly with CCP by sending a petition in via the Other -> Community category. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 179	Posted - 2012.10.02 19:29:00 - [10] - Quote Hi Pipa, I'm only going to comment on the parts that are relevant to CCL here. I don't create the rules. I had thought that my statement 'I ask you to please follow the rules that have been stated here' would have been taken in reference to the rules stated in in CCP Spitfire's post, I am sorry that it didn't come across clearly. As I mentioned earlier, I have now raised this issue with the CCL team, not everyone was aware of rules against Killboard posts, I have raised this internally now so hopefully there will be no more misunderstandings. I apologise again on behalf of the CCL team, the information given by ISD Praetoxx was incorrect. Thanks and fly safe. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 185	Posted - 2012.10.03 12:40:00 - [11] - Quote Good afternoon, To answer your question specifically, Rodyas: You're not allowed to post killmails, killboard links or screenshots of killboards in General Discussion. To expand on that answer, this rule extends to the whole of the forums with the exception of Crime and Punishment where you may post killmails but not killboard links or screenshots of killboards, following the rules stated in this post. We realise there is not a specific rule forbidding posting killmails, killboard links or screenshots of killboards in the Forum rules, and we have asked CCP if they will clarify or formalize this particular rule in writing. In the mean time, CCP Spitfire has stated in two places here and here that Killmails are considered a form of trolling. CCP Spitfire wrote: Posting killmails, killboard links or screenshots of killboards will be considered as trolling or off-topic, and subject to removal or warning. There is a specific rule that forbids Trolling (See the Forum Rules number 7) so therefore the removal of killmails, links to killboards or screenshots of killboards extends to the entire forum, with the exception of the specific case allowed in Crime and Punishment. As I've said before, we are enforcing CCPs decision in the matter, not making the rules up ourselves. Any further discussion needs to be raised with CCP. Please use the Other -> Community petition category to do so. Thanks and fly safe. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 294	Posted - 2012.10.13 02:17:00 - [12] - Quote Hi, Just to give you an update on the Killmail thing. As of right now, the position we're sticking to is that posting killmails leads to trolling, and will be dealt with as an application of forum rule 7. forum rules wrote: 7. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums. You may be pleased to know however, that we've been discussing this internally, a lot. I don't know what the final decision is going to be, but I just wanted to assure you that we're not brushing this under the carpet. Don't forget that there is a ISD seminar for the CCL team tomorrow and people will have the chance to ask questions of representatives of both the CCL team and the CCP Community team. Have at look at this thread for details. Thanks and fly safe. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 295	Posted - 2012.10.13 02:32:00 - [13] - Quote Pipa, I am not going to get into word games with you about this. Just wait and see what the CCP Community team comes up with. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 324	Posted - 2012.10.14 22:21:00 - [14] - Quote Becka, Let me draw your attention to something I wrote last night in another thread: regarding ccl I hope it might reassure you about the checks and balances that are maintained to ensure that we don't turn into a overzealous moderation monster. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 324	Posted - 2012.10.14 23:07:00 - [15] - Quote Becka Goldbeck wrote: To be honest it doesn't, I don't think your intentions are bad and I'm not directing anything at you individually. But I think the track record thus far of the ISD as a whole has been overzealous and I think the problems I elaborated on above can't be avoided by good intentions. It's just the nature of this arrangement and how people are. Hi, There have been incidents of overzealousness in the past, I'll grant you that. If you attended the seminar yesterday you'll know that part of my job is to manage these incidents and coach my moderators on how to better apply the very limited tools that we have at our disposal. I can't and won't mention names but I have been involved with people being removed from ISD entirely for gross violations of player trust. You're clearly intelligent and you care a lot about this community; believe me when I say that I'd rather have you posting on-topic then not! You know - perhaps you should apply to join the team ? We can always use people of passion for the community, it's the one common thing that we all have in our team. If you got in, it'd also prove to you that we're not doing what you think we're doing. As a last thought just occurred to me, there is another plausible reason why we appear to be over-zealous at times. There are generally 3 of us who are active at this time, and we are the first line of people to deal with reported posts (unless the report is about a post that a CCL member has made) so that might explain why the same people are always seen to be applying the rules and therefore appearing heavy handed because of sheer volume. It really isn't about good intentions though; it's my job to deal with ISD members who've not done their moderation correctly. You can help me though, if you see this overzealous behaviour it then report it. You can put "FAO CCL Leads" at the start of your report and it will get through to myself or ISD Eshtir, who's in charge of this team. I mean this sincerely. Edit - Regarding reports, don't use the enter key - it looks like it can take a large block of text but it truncates everything after the first carriage return. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


ISD Suvetar ISD Community Communications Liaisons 325	Posted - 2012.10.15 00:06:00 - [16] - Quote Hi Minmatar Citizen, I should like to point out that the post you're referring to was made by a member of the STAR team, not the CCL team, that this thread is specifically about. But yes, of course we volunteers have an ulterior motive, no body is denying that - what I take objection to is the suggestion that the motive is to 'get one over' other forum posters or anything of that nature. For one, you can't - I see what gets moderated and if I notice any odd patterns then I talk to the person involved and undo the action taken. Two, you can't do all that much, CCL team members are not permitted to be in-game or to moderate in any thread that involves their mains corp or alliance. As a lead, I can see the details of my team members and know who they are so I can also enforce this. Of course you might argue then that it's my ulterior motive that could be suspect, but I'll be open about it: I do this because I enjoy this aspect of the community. I do it because I get to talk to CCP staff members and having been in ISD is helpful when getting employment with CCP. I do it, because I get my game account for free. It's not much but its a payment of sorts. Lastly, to suggest that a single misunderstanding between two people is a perfect example of ISD being 'by far one of the worst ideas in forum history; is ad hominem. Have a look at the evelopedia ISD entry, we're a lot more than mere forum moderators. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

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