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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.11.24 23:27:00 -
[1]
Everyone seems to be really hot on destroyers, likely due to the reasonable prices, high ammount of turret slots, and dammit, just because they're new. But are they as great as they seem at first glance?
Well they have 7.5% bonus to tracking per level, that's good. You can clearly see that the ship is meant to fight multiple frigs at the same time. But what does the ROF penalty mean? Well a 25% ROF penalty cuts your raw DOT by 33%. That means it's like going from 8 turrets to 5.36 turrets. But that's the raw DOT, it doesn't take into account the fact that the tracking bonus will allow for better hits more often. So is the tracking bonus going to allow enough better hits to warrant the 25% ROF penalty? Will an interceptor be a better choice to (mis)use as a frig killer?
I think one major point is the price. It's doubtful you can get more DOT for the price. Without actually crunching the numbers, I'd say the Destroyers will definately work if they are used precisely as intended (we'll have to feel out what CCP wants us to do with Destroyer low and mid slots).
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.11.24 23:27:00 -
[2]
Everyone seems to be really hot on destroyers, likely due to the reasonable prices, high ammount of turret slots, and dammit, just because they're new. But are they as great as they seem at first glance?
Well they have 7.5% bonus to tracking per level, that's good. You can clearly see that the ship is meant to fight multiple frigs at the same time. But what does the ROF penalty mean? Well a 25% ROF penalty cuts your raw DOT by 33%. That means it's like going from 8 turrets to 5.36 turrets. But that's the raw DOT, it doesn't take into account the fact that the tracking bonus will allow for better hits more often. So is the tracking bonus going to allow enough better hits to warrant the 25% ROF penalty? Will an interceptor be a better choice to (mis)use as a frig killer?
I think one major point is the price. It's doubtful you can get more DOT for the price. Without actually crunching the numbers, I'd say the Destroyers will definately work if they are used precisely as intended (we'll have to feel out what CCP wants us to do with Destroyer low and mid slots).
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.11.24 23:46:00 -
[3]
uh, it doesnt decrease dot by 33%, it decreases it by 25%... or maybe 20%... umm... not sure. depends how its done. ie, does it multiply the time between each shot by 1.25? if so, then it goes from 10seconds to 12.5 seconds, which is only a 20% decrease in overall shots fired.
or it might be late, and i'm confusing myself.
but anyway. it doesnt actually quite drop it by that much even, because of reloading times :P
i think destroyers are good ships, and the tracking bonus should help, but i dunno... the ROF thing just feels wrong :P i tend to think of destroyers as just spewing out rounds after the little frigs... i'd have prefered an ROF bonus personally instead of the tracking, but i guess that would make them too powerful against big ships.
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Shimatu
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Posted - 2004.11.24 23:46:00 -
[4]
uh, it doesnt decrease dot by 33%, it decreases it by 25%... or maybe 20%... umm... not sure. depends how its done. ie, does it multiply the time between each shot by 1.25? if so, then it goes from 10seconds to 12.5 seconds, which is only a 20% decrease in overall shots fired.
or it might be late, and i'm confusing myself.
but anyway. it doesnt actually quite drop it by that much even, because of reloading times :P
i think destroyers are good ships, and the tracking bonus should help, but i dunno... the ROF thing just feels wrong :P i tend to think of destroyers as just spewing out rounds after the little frigs... i'd have prefered an ROF bonus personally instead of the tracking, but i guess that would make them too powerful against big ships.
3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
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Kin Oreyn
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Posted - 2004.11.25 05:48:00 -
[5]
haven't had the chance to test them out yet, but from the looks of them they would be ideal as anti inty/other frig platforms. Just based on the fact that it has so many turrets makes it possible to kill an inty in 1-3 volleys of shots as long as they are in range. But it also has very little defense so it can be killed just as easily
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Kin Oreyn
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Posted - 2004.11.25 05:48:00 -
[6]
haven't had the chance to test them out yet, but from the looks of them they would be ideal as anti inty/other frig platforms. Just based on the fact that it has so many turrets makes it possible to kill an inty in 1-3 volleys of shots as long as they are in range. But it also has very little defense so it can be killed just as easily
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2004.11.25 06:24:00 -
[7]
I wasn't particularly impressed with them. I found them to be slow and extremely fragile.
People are saying they will be the death of interceptors, but I think that's unlikely. Even 90% webbed, an inty pilot can just run out of range.
I think they will find thier role in fleet engagements, however, mainly to draw fire away from the capitol ships.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2004.11.25 06:24:00 -
[8]
I wasn't particularly impressed with them. I found them to be slow and extremely fragile.
People are saying they will be the death of interceptors, but I think that's unlikely. Even 90% webbed, an inty pilot can just run out of range.
I think they will find thier role in fleet engagements, however, mainly to draw fire away from the capitol ships.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.11.25 07:02:00 -
[9]
Neh, since the mass was changed on them, they have fixed the speed problems. Don't underestimate what a cormorant can do with 7 tech 2 125mm rails at 20km range with antimatter ammo. Believe the tracking was .281 rads with destroyer 5, and even with 25% penalty 125s still fire plenty fast. They don't have the toughness of Assault frigates, but set up right they can deal out tons of damage to any fast ship out there. I can almost garuntee a cormy fit with 2 webs, 7.5k range scrambler and MWD is going to shred most frigs or ceptors.
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.11.25 07:02:00 -
[10]
Neh, since the mass was changed on them, they have fixed the speed problems. Don't underestimate what a cormorant can do with 7 tech 2 125mm rails at 20km range with antimatter ammo. Believe the tracking was .281 rads with destroyer 5, and even with 25% penalty 125s still fire plenty fast. They don't have the toughness of Assault frigates, but set up right they can deal out tons of damage to any fast ship out there. I can almost garuntee a cormy fit with 2 webs, 7.5k range scrambler and MWD is going to shred most frigs or ceptors.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.11.25 08:41:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Shimatu
uh, it doesnt decrease dot by 33%, it decreases it by 25%... or maybe 20%... umm... not sure.
You're right, I'm sorry. A 25% decrease in ROF = 33% more DOT. A 25% increase in ROF = a 20% reduction in DOT.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.11.25 08:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shimatu
uh, it doesnt decrease dot by 33%, it decreases it by 25%... or maybe 20%... umm... not sure.
You're right, I'm sorry. A 25% decrease in ROF = 33% more DOT. A 25% increase in ROF = a 20% reduction in DOT.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:53:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Slithereen on 25/11/2004 10:55:55
I tried them for level 3 missions, and they're too slow and too fragile to survive the increased robustness of missions out there now.
However I do suggest them for firepower support in level 4 missions when you're part of a group. A destroyer can come handy once swarms of inties and T2 frigates come down to web your partners.
I have a friend who lost his battleship today in a ganged L4 mission where everyone bought battleships. He got webbed and scrambled by a swarm of T2 frigs while being pounded by the deadspace mission sentry guns. Even with drones, we were not able to kill off the grappling frigs away from his ship in time for him to escape.
If we had an anti frig platform---an inty, assault or a destroyer, the circumstances may have been different.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:53:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Slithereen on 25/11/2004 10:55:55
I tried them for level 3 missions, and they're too slow and too fragile to survive the increased robustness of missions out there now.
However I do suggest them for firepower support in level 4 missions when you're part of a group. A destroyer can come handy once swarms of inties and T2 frigates come down to web your partners.
I have a friend who lost his battleship today in a ganged L4 mission where everyone bought battleships. He got webbed and scrambled by a swarm of T2 frigs while being pounded by the deadspace mission sentry guns. Even with drones, we were not able to kill off the grappling frigs away from his ship in time for him to escape.
If we had an anti frig platform---an inty, assault or a destroyer, the circumstances may have been different.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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dabster
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sc0rpion
I wasn't particularly impressed with them. I found them to be slow and extremely fragile.
People are saying they will be the death of interceptors, but I think that's unlikely. Even 90% webbed, an inty pilot can just run out of range.
I think they will find thier role in fleet engagements, however, mainly to draw fire away from the capitol ships.
A ceptor that is webbed by a Trasher, do you really think he lives through even half the cycle web? 
___________________________
Chicks dig Brutor's |
dabster
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sc0rpion
I wasn't particularly impressed with them. I found them to be slow and extremely fragile.
People are saying they will be the death of interceptors, but I think that's unlikely. Even 90% webbed, an inty pilot can just run out of range.
I think they will find thier role in fleet engagements, however, mainly to draw fire away from the capitol ships.
A ceptor that is webbed by a Trasher, do you really think he lives through even half the cycle web?
___________________________
Chicks dig Brutor's |
NateX
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Posted - 2004.11.25 12:02:00 -
[17]
meby like this:
Cruiser->destroyers
interceptors->cruisers
destroyers->normal frigats (meby ceptors)
some thing like that??
_______________
______/ Regards
NateX |
NateX
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Posted - 2004.11.25 12:02:00 -
[18]
meby like this:
Cruiser->destroyers
interceptors->cruisers
destroyers->normal frigats (meby ceptors)
some thing like that??
_______________
______/ Regards
NateX |
Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2004.11.25 15:44:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 25/11/2004 15:47:19
Originally by: NateX
meby like this:
Cruiser->destroyers
interceptors->cruisers
destroyers->normal frigats (meby ceptors)
some thing like that??
Its going to be Paper, Scissors, Stone. Mixed fleets are the way it should be. The example of the BS dying to a swarm of npc frigs is a case and point. BS just cant hit them.
The Destroyers will be a nice ship to get if your new to the game and want to do missions/dungeons or join members in pvp, or if your old and skint like myself and want something different to fly. I for one have no intention of using a bs again in game, cept to mine maybe (mining barges prob rule that out too) BS = Sitting duck, too slow. Battle cruisers and destroyers look good to me.
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |
Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2004.11.25 15:44:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 25/11/2004 15:47:19
Originally by: NateX
meby like this:
Cruiser->destroyers
interceptors->cruisers
destroyers->normal frigats (meby ceptors)
some thing like that??
Its going to be Paper, Scissors, Stone. Mixed fleets are the way it should be. The example of the BS dying to a swarm of npc frigs is a case and point. BS just cant hit them.
The Destroyers will be a nice ship to get if your new to the game and want to do missions/dungeons or join members in pvp, or if your old and skint like myself and want something different to fly. I for one have no intention of using a bs again in game, cept to mine maybe (mining barges prob rule that out too) BS = Sitting duck, too slow. Battle cruisers and destroyers look good to me.
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |
Solant
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Posted - 2004.11.25 16:27:00 -
[21]
Only problem I see with destroyers is they are basically as tough as a frigate, and they have generally the same amount of Low/Mid slots. They certainly have firepower, but as soon as you get a couple Heavy Missiles rolling your way, you're pooched. I could see a properly fitted Kestrel killing off a Destroyer if he could get a couple volleys off before the Destroyer kills him (which would also be fairly inevitable). And a Destroyer, while cheap, is considerably more expensive than a Kestrel. It's going to be interesting to see how people can boost defenses on Destroyers to protect the investment while still maintaining a strong offensive.
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Solant
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Posted - 2004.11.25 16:27:00 -
[22]
Only problem I see with destroyers is they are basically as tough as a frigate, and they have generally the same amount of Low/Mid slots. They certainly have firepower, but as soon as you get a couple Heavy Missiles rolling your way, you're pooched. I could see a properly fitted Kestrel killing off a Destroyer if he could get a couple volleys off before the Destroyer kills him (which would also be fairly inevitable). And a Destroyer, while cheap, is considerably more expensive than a Kestrel. It's going to be interesting to see how people can boost defenses on Destroyers to protect the investment while still maintaining a strong offensive.
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